WOW If anyone saw the PBS Documentary on the Armenian Genocide click here

[1.5 million]

What is worse TurQ - "ugly" words or "ugly" thoughts...

One of the points that was made in the documentary that you need to pay heed - is that there was an incredible participation by the general Turkish populace in carrying out the Armenian Genocide. (unlike the Germans who while perhaps aware of the concentration camps and Nazi proclamations/laws etc concerning Jews were not so directly involved in the actual killing and looting. In fact the documentary depicts quite well how the Mosque were used to rally passions against Armenians (as Christians/non-Muslims) - how Armenians were depicted as less then human - how both Ottoman Government and religious authorities actively encouraged killing of Armenians by everyday Turks and how everyday Turks did such in great numbers. What the documentary didn't discuss was the campaign that preceeded this - for nearly an entire generation where ottoman Turrks were taught to resent the "uppity" Armenians and how the Turkish press consistantly denigrated them - calling them swine and animals and how Turks came to resent aand become jealous of the seemingly prosperous (depicted as such) Armenians - while meanwhile the Empire was crumbling...refugees were pouring in (who were very much disposed against Christians)...and you talk of Fedayi and such - what a joke - not even close - by orders of magnitude - to being in the same ball park - what do you know - very little really - you understand very little - or at least you come off that way...yet you are smug and confident in your denial - so FU again - you deserve far worse!

[1.5 million]

Gavur - TurQ claiming that he admires 20 voices is but another tactic - for he likewise (falsely) claims that there are equal numbers of like Turkish voices with sotries to tell of Armenian atrocities against them. This is his theme here. It is most clear. He means to denigrate our experience - our suffering at the hands of the CUP/Ottoman government and from the Sultans before them - and from the population of Turks who victimized us again and again - and claim that the Armenains were at fault - that Armenians killed Turks and caused all the problems - etc

[Gavur]

If what your saying is those people are lying even in their sleep I find it very disgusting and I take back the admire part.

Ne yer ne ates kaldi
(There was neither a fire or a place for it to fall left)

I hope your not telling my Grandmother was lying when she told me in a way only a genocide survivor can tell (in a detached and unemotional way)of course you would immeaditaly recognize that trait IF you talked to a survivor

When her family who lived in the biggest house in Bursa/setbashi which later they converted in to a many things among them setbashi school how the man dissapeared first and then her being the youngest of a 150 unit family forced into a march where she witnessed blood running down the hillside like a river and Turks cutting off womans nipples and making Tespih (worrybeads) and then how she was separated because order came to spare the under 13 year olds tobe Turkified and taken to Chaglayan saray where she would hear nightly screams and sounds of bodys dumped in to the sea from up above then finally rescued Armenian from Istanbul when she was tricked by him into speaking Armenian which proved she was one.

YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR FRIKKING MIND!

[1.5 million]

Here is a story/account for TurQ to ponder:

One of the grimmest and most vivid accounts of the expulsion of the Kharput Armenians was sent by an American consul to ambassador Morgenthau in Constantinople, using material gathered from a survivor of the seventy-day foot-slog from Kharput to Ras ul-Ain, via Malatia, Kiakhta and Viranshehir. It was a typical story – one that was repeated many times over in the Ottoman empire during 1915 and 1916.

When this convoy left Kharput there were 3,000 people on it – including women, girls and little children. They took with them what they could get together in terms of food, belongings and money. Many hired carts to take them as far as Malatia. Seventy gendarmes accompanied them. A Turkish notable, Faiki Bey, came with them, saying that he would stay with them for much of the journey. On the second day Faiki suggested he take £T400 from them (£363 sterling, 1915 values), 'just to keep it safe', till they reached Malatia. The same day he disappeared and was not seen again.84

By the third day the semi-civilised mountain tribes were swooping down and carrying off the women (or simply robbing and killing them if they were plain), being incited to do so all the while by the seventy 'protective' gendarmes.

On the following day they reached Malatia, where they stayed only very briefly, before setting off again for Ras ul-Ain. It was at Malatia that the gendarmes finally deserted them (not failing, however, to take a final £T200), leaving them to the mercy of the local Kurdish bey.

Two days later 150 men (aged between 15 and 90) were rounded up and murdered; at the same time the new 'protectors' carried out further robbery of the people. At that juncture, too, they met another convoy – an army of sufferers coming from Sivas, together they moved forward, in all 18,000 people.

On they went, a nightmarish spectacle of degraded humanity, subject to violence, robbery, girl-snatching and instant death for any stragglers.

Forty days from their day of departure they came to the Murad river (eastern Euphrates), where they saw the bodies of more than 200 men floating in the river. On the banks were bloodstained clothes. The headman of the village took £T1 from each man for the privilege of not being thrown in the river. Twelve days later, nearly demented with suffering, they arrived at another village,

and here the Kurds took from them everything they had, even their shirts and drawers, so that for five days the whole convoy marched completely naked under the scorching sun. For another five days they did not have a morsel of bread, nor even a drop of water. They were scorched to death by thirst. Hundreds upon hundreds fell dead on the way, their tongues were turned to charcoal, and when, at the end of the five days, they reached a fountain, the whole convoy naturally ran towards it. But here a policeman barred the way and forbade them to take a single drop of water. Their purpose was to sell it at from £T1 to £T3 the cup, and sometimes they actually withheld the water after getting the money. At another place, where there were wells, some women threw themselves into them, as there was no rope nor pail to draw up the water. These women were drowned, and, in spite of that, the rest of the people drank from the well, the dead bodies still remaining there and stinking in the water. Sometimes when the wells were shallow and the women could go down into them and come out again, the other women would rush to lick or suck their wet, dirty clothes, in the effort to quench their thirst.

When they passed an Arab village in their naked condition, the Arabs pitied them and gave them pieces of old clothes to cover themselves with. Some of the exiles who still had money bought some clothes; but some still remained who travelled thus naked all the way to the city of Aleppo. The poor women could hardly walk for shame; they walked all bent double.

Twelve days later, at Viranshehir, only 300 remained out of the 18,000. Four days later, the sick women and children, and all the men, were collected together and burned to death. The rest were ordered to continue.

They reached Ras ul-Ain the next day. Here, for the first time, since they had started, the authorities gave them bread, and that was uneatable. The few wretched starved specimens of humanity that remained were here, after further bribes, able to get on a train for Aleppo. At Aleppo, ten days later, only 150 women and children remained from the two convoys.

[phantom]

Gavur and 1.5, anyone who tries to argue that it wasn't a Genocide is, like Gavur said, out of their friggin minds. Like Akcam said, today they are calling the death of 7,000 Bosnians a Genocide, and we're going to sit here and try to pretend that the death of 1 million Armenians wasn't premeditated and planned; that somehow it was an accident or an unintended outcome. Come on, whoever believes that is definitely living in the realm of the absurd.

TurQ, what I saw on the 17th, was not a propoganda movie. It was a documentary on the Armenian Genocide. The premeditated and planned extermination of our ancestors. It was shown in all of its stark reality. Actually, the most brutal stories were mostly left out.

TurQ, you admit that the CUP committed a Genocide. What do you gain by calling this a propoganda movie before you've even seen it?

[Tatoul]

Just wondering. Do any of you even know what "propaganda" means? I mean you should at least know what the word means if you're going to use it, especially when you use it often.

[Gavur]

I dont think Turq knows

[TurQ]

Gavur

you obviously lost some knowledge of Turkish
Sayiklamak is not only done in sleeping, one of the meaning is keep on saying something over and over. That poet means lieing can be done once but cant be repeated over and over.

An other example for lieng being for short amount of time is "yalancinin mumu yatsiya kadar yanar".

If what your saying is those people are lying even in their sleep I find it very disgusting and I take back the admire part.

Ne yer ne ates kaldi
(There was neither a fire or a place for it to fall left)

I hope your not telling my Grandmother was lying when she told me in a way only a genocide survivor can tell (in a detached and unemotional way)of course you would immeaditaly recognize that trait IF you talked to a survivor

When her family who lived in the biggest house in Bursa/setbashi which later they converted in to a many things among them setbashi school how the man dissapeared first and then her being the youngest of a 150 unit family forced into a march where she witnessed blood running down the hillside like a river and Turks cutting off womans nipples and making Tespih (worrybeads) and then how she was separated because order came to spare the under 13 year olds tobe Turkified and taken to Chaglayan saray where she would hear nightly screams and sounds of bodys dumped in to the sea from up above then finally rescued Armenian from Istanbul when she was tricked by him into speaking Armenian which proved she was one.

YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR FRIKKING MIND!

[Gavur]

Oh ok I was a little confused at first but then I played it safe knowing others would be too.
Anyway it gave me the energy kinda put my Grandmas story in nutshell and put it out there
Thank you for my misunderstanding Turq

[TurQ]

That parts can only be partially true, for eastern anatolia for the cities and big towns, already the male population were drafted into the army to fight against the Russians and Allied forces in Gallipoli, I am really wondering how all children and women carried out genocide to their neighbours. My friends great grandma told this, when their Armenian neighbour(Darende, Malatya close to Sivas border) was called for tehjir(deportation) the neighbour gave the keys of their home and ask her to take care of the house(there was no man left in the family).
THese are not few of those examples, now you're telling me that local populace carried out a genocide?
YEs I know in Kayseri(again from my friend's family) that local Armenians were killed by some of the local villagers who lost their relatives in war.

Even the commander of the largest army in the east ,3rd army, Vehip Pasha himself punished and executed those responsible of killing Armenians in the army(according to CUP they're the prime suspects you know). You're still claiming that regular army and CUP chetes were equal, while the army issued arrest warrent for Bahattin SHakir's actions in east.

First you have to have a reasonable explanation to these official stand taken by the Ottoman state and government.

Anyways there is no point of re-engaging discussions on this, I know where you stand, you know where I stand, and we'll agree not to agree onmajority of the things

What is worse TurQ - "ugly" words or "ugly" thoughts...

One of the points that was made in the documentary that you need to pay heed - is that there was an incredible participation by the general Turkish populace in carrying out the Armenian Genocide. (unlike the Germans who while perhaps aware of the concentration camps and Nazi proclamations/laws etc concerning Jews were not so directly involved in the actual killing and looting. In fact the documentary depicts quite well how the Mosque were used to rally passions against Armenians (as Christians/non-Muslims) - how Armenians were depicted as less then human - how both Ottoman Government and religious authorities actively encouraged killing of Armenians by everyday Turks and how everyday Turks did such in great numbers. What the documentary didn't discuss was the campaign that preceeded this - for nearly an entire generation where ottoman Turrks were taught to resent the "uppity" Armenians and how the Turkish press consistantly denigrated them - calling them swine and animals and how Turks came to resent aand become jealous of the seemingly prosperous (depicted as such) Armenians - while meanwhile the Empire was crumbling...refugees were pouring in (who were very much disposed against Christians)...and you talk of Fedayi and such - what a joke - not even close - by orders of magnitude - to being in the same ball park - what do you know - very little really - you understand very little - or at least you come off that way...yet you are smug and confident in your denial - so FU again - you deserve far worse!