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  • #11
    Originally posted by yeniçeri
    my sole intention is to learn more on this issue and to get closer to truth.
    Hmmmmmmm, where have I heard this before?

    Comment

    • #12
      hellektor, Noting that you have neither answered any of my questions nor fulfilled my curiosity, I see your good intention to show us something ,tried to be hidden from the people of both countries. I must add that history is such a dicipline that it is beyond state control and very open to abusement. State policies sometimes try to hide something in history, sometimes try to exaggarate things as we see in your case and in our case.

      Heat excuse me I could not see what you meant?
      img]http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1487/antisoad6mm.gif[/img]

      Comment

      • #13
        Originally posted by yeniçeri
        hellektor, Noting that you have neither answered any of my questions nor fulfilled my curiosity, I see your good intention to show us something ,tried to be hidden from the people of both countries. I must add that history is such a dicipline that it is beyond state control and very open to abusement. State policies sometimes try to hide something in history, sometimes try to exaggarate things as we see in your case and in our case.

        Heat excuse me I could not see what you meant?
        You sounded like you were uninformed and affected by your state's brainwash. I suggested that you grab some books, read them and come back and tell us why you think they don't tell the truth. Did you read any of those books?
        Four things denialist Turks do when they are confronted with facts:

        I. They change the subject [SIZE="1"](e.g. they copy/paste tons of garbage to divert attention).[/SIZE]
        II. They project [SIZE="1"](e.g. they replace "Turk" with "Armenian" and vice versa and they regurgitate Armenian history).[/SIZE]
        III. They offend [SIZE="1"](e.g. they cuss, threaten and/or mock).[/SIZE]
        IV. They shut up and say nothing.

        [URL="http://b.imagehost.org/download/0689/azerbaijan-real-fake-absurd.pdf"][COLOR="Red"]A country named Azerbaijan north of the Arax River [B]NEVER[/B] existed before 1918[/COLOR][/URL]

        Comment

        • #14
          yes I have the blue book and I read it but I dont want to talk all the time about these because then I am afraid the conversation will turn into "you did this then we did this because you did that". You dont ask yourself "why"s you only want to see your facts. Sorry but I see that you see me as an ordinary brainwashed Turk and as I see you, you are prebiased against all the turks and according to your point of view any Turk cannot study history. Assuming that s/he has studied than that should be biased and one sided. I must ask you that after reading 5 6 or whatever books how do you dare to sell history to people? You dont even know about me? Please get rid of your prejudices and lets talk after that
          img]http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1487/antisoad6mm.gif[/img]

          Comment

          • #15
            I want my home back

            Originally posted by yeniçeri
            yes I have the blue book and I read it but I dont want to talk all the time about these because then I am afraid the conversation will turn into "you did this then we did this because you did that". You dont ask yourself "why"s you only want to see your facts. Sorry but I see that you see me as an ordinary brainwashed Turk and as I see you, you are prebiased against all the turks and according to your point of view any Turk cannot study history. Assuming that s/he has studied than that should be biased and one sided. I must ask you that after reading 5 6 or whatever books how do you dare to sell history to people? You dont even know about me? Please get rid of your prejudices and lets talk after that
            You can be as arrogant, self-righteous, self-assured as you wish (I'm not saying that you are).
            You can interpret history the way you like it. You can't change it.

            The bottomline is that Armenians lived in Armenia for thousands of years, the Turks invaded our country and at the end they wiped us out in our homeland, usurping the same. Your state is founded on genocide and that's not just.
            I want my home back and I'll get it back even if it takes centuries.

            Babylonian Clay Tablet 600 BC

            Babylonian Clay Tablet 600 BC Interpreted

            Ptolemy Tabvla nova Asia Minoris 1513

            Sebastian Munster Asia Minor 1544

            Philippe de La Rue: Asia Minor 1652 (Section)

            Frederik de Wit Nova Persiae Armeniae Natoliae et Arabiae 1662

            Kiepert: Asian Turkey 1872 (Section)

            Reconstruction of Ashkharhatsouits, see for yourself how much of Armenia the bogus country is occupying

            Give me back my homeland "and lets talk after that".
            Four things denialist Turks do when they are confronted with facts:

            I. They change the subject [SIZE="1"](e.g. they copy/paste tons of garbage to divert attention).[/SIZE]
            II. They project [SIZE="1"](e.g. they replace "Turk" with "Armenian" and vice versa and they regurgitate Armenian history).[/SIZE]
            III. They offend [SIZE="1"](e.g. they cuss, threaten and/or mock).[/SIZE]
            IV. They shut up and say nothing.

            [URL="http://b.imagehost.org/download/0689/azerbaijan-real-fake-absurd.pdf"][COLOR="Red"]A country named Azerbaijan north of the Arax River [B]NEVER[/B] existed before 1918[/COLOR][/URL]

            Comment

            • #16
              than now is the time for fight isnt it? I am ashamed of what you now say. Do you know? you havent taken any lessons from the events your ancestors have suffered. You with your these words remind me Talat Pasha. You even dont know the meaning of homeland. Homeland is not the place where some people you dont know and meet any of them(ancestors) live. It is where you love to be and live. As far as I see you are hungry for soil. You say homeland to places that you havent seen, lived, loved, worked. Yes you mean this is the right time to fight. Also thank you
              img]http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1487/antisoad6mm.gif[/img]

              Comment

              • #17
                Originally posted by 42diplomats
                We killed 2 of the 3 Ittihadists phasas and took our revenge. We also killed 42 diplomats. That is not enough yet. We need more work...
                Ok stop trolling.

                It's not even funny how Turkish you sound.

                If you wanna come back, come back with your true nationality.

                Comment

                • #18
                  Yeniceri
                  beware of Sellektor, he is not a person to be talked to, sort of venomous

                  Originally posted by yeniçeri
                  hellektor, Noting that you have neither answered any of my questions nor fulfilled my curiosity, I see your good intention to show us something ,tried to be hidden from the people of both countries. I must add that history is such a dicipline that it is beyond state control and very open to abusement. State policies sometimes try to hide something in history, sometimes try to exaggarate things as we see in your case and in our case.

                  Heat excuse me I could not see what you meant?

                  Comment

                  • #19
                    I would save a place for you at Bakirkoy mental hospital, if you like


                    Originally posted by Hellektor

                    Give me back my homeland "and lets talk after that".

                    Comment

                    • #20
                      Originally posted by yeniçeri
                      Friends
                      I have been following this forum for a very long time and observing the beahaviors of those writers and policy of the moderaters and forum, after all despite my hesitations to write, I would like to share some of my concerns with you.
                      I am Turk. I read the messages of many people and the manner of those who talks all the time in a way insulting implicitly Turks(cuz you know directly insulting is forbidden in this forum) make me feel real bad. First of all the aim of all our talkings must aim the truth. The general manner in these forum seemed to me that genocide is certain and we should not be arguing about that since this is a fact we should be talking about the additional facts about that like "did turks kill 70 million armenian or 50000?" or in which conditions did they die? My opinion is that such disputes when made on a forum would end in only hatred, nothing else. Then who will benefit from that? of course nobody.
                      We in Turkey are trying to find the truth now, academicians and historians of both sides are discussing, searching the archives, trying to find more on this issue. But the general mood in this forum seemed to me like the academics' work or the discovery of further archives or the ideas of the genocide deniers(Since they are the natural descendants and inheritors of ottomans) would have no effect on the genocide issue or on the opinion of writers. If the Genocide is so certain than why discuss it so much? To make other people also hate Turks? Or to form new identities condemning Turks(Not ottomans)? Than as a Turk I would like to ask you that "am I guilty to be born on this territories as a Turk? And should I be the one who has to suffer for the decisions of a sultan or a pasha or whoever(an individual or a group of people just like all of us)? What is it that is searched here? A late relief or grieve and mourn for those who has died? Cuz I must know this because it is talked in an offending way. Also If Genocide is not certain than why dont you let other(genocide deniers) talk freely? Talking and thinking would harm noone or does it? Of course some of you naturally will say this is an ordinary pro denial lets ban it. Then I suspect the goodwill of moderaters since my sole intention is to learn more on this issue and to get closer to truth.
                      Another of my concern is that no such individual identity is existent in forum. If something has happened in history we prefer to define it as Turks have done this, ottomans have done this, armenians bulgarians greeks hate turks. They keep up talking like this is age of empire. I repeat, these behaviors only scare people and would not end in something good. My suggestion is that lets try to avoid generalizing the actions of individuals to a whole nation whole country. Opinions and actions of a person belongs to him not to a nation or a country(unless s/he isa representative of country).
                      Finally I would like to talk about famous photographer Ara Güler(armenian origin turkish citizen) or the works of Mimar Sinan with an armenian. But I see that the wall of hatred is rising between us. It is very sad isnt it? Now is the right time to fight isnt it?

                      ps=sorry for writing long
                      I agree with much of your post. Though I get angry when I see the denial of the Armenian genocide I have to remember that Turks alive today are not responsible. It angers Armenians to to hear denial but Armenians also have to realize that Turks have been taught a certain history and are many are now starting to question the state-sponsored explanation. Turkey is certainly not the only nation that should confront the past but I think the bottomline is that on a comparative basis, there are few Armenians left in the world today and wound of being decimated and forced out of our homeland may never heal. The birthplace of our church, language, culture is gone. Armenians and Turkish nationalism feed each other to a certain degree but I don't see how it will end. It's all well and good to open a dialogue but let's face it, all we do is piss each other off more. It is one family against another.
                      General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”

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