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To All the Denialists Here

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  • #31
    June 15, 2005

    [English Translation from German]

    German Bundestag Printed matter 15/5689 15th electoral period June 15, 2005

    Motion by the parliamentary groups of SPD, CDU/CSU, BÜNDNIS 90/DIE GRÜNEN and FDP
    Commemorating the expulsion and massacre of the Armenians in 1915 – Germany must make her contribution to the reconciliation between Turks and Armenians.

    The Bundestag may resolve:

    The German Bundestag honors and commemorates the victims of violence, murder and expulsion among the Armenian people before and during the First World War. The Bundestag deplores the deeds of the Young Turkish government in the Ottoman Empire which have resulted in the almost total annihilation of the Armenians in Anatolia. It also deplores the inglorious role played by the German Reich which, in spite of a wealth of information on the organized expulsion and annihilation of Armenians, has made no attempt to intervene and stop these atrocities.

    The German Bundestag honors and commemorates the efforts made both by Turks and Germans who, working under difficult circumstances and conditions and against the resistance of their respective governments, have committed themselves in word and deed to saving Armenian women, men and children. It is particularly the memory and the work of Dr. Johannes Lepsius, who fought vigorously and effectively for the survival of the Armenian people, which is to be redeemed from oblivion and cherished and maintained to improve the relationship between the Armenian, the German and the Turkish people.

    The German Bundestag is painfully aware from its own national experience how hard it is for every people to face the dark sides of its past. But it also believes that facing one’s own history fairly and squarely is necessary and constitutes an important basis for reconciliation. This is true, in particular, within the European culture of remembrance to which belongs the open discussion of the dark sides of each national history.

    Against this Background, the German Bundestag deplores the fact that a full discussion of these events of the past in the Ottoman Empire is still not possible today in Turkey and that scientists and writers who wish to deal with this aspect of Turkish history are being prosecuted and exposed to public defamation. However, the German Bundestag also sees positive signs that Turkey, to an ever-increasing degree, approaches this subject within the above European culture of remembering. Examples include:

    - The Great Turkish Assembly has, for the first time, invited Turkish people of Armenian descent to discussions involving the crimes committed against the Armenians and the Turkish-Armenian relationship - A Turkish-Armenian women’s dialog was held in Vienna - Initial contacts between Turkish and Armenian historians resulted in a first exchange of documents - Minister President Erdogan inaugurated Turkey’s first Armenian museum in Istanbul with the Armenian patriarch Mesrab and publicly suggested the establishment of a bilateral Turkish-Armenian panel of historians.

    However, in this context, the German Bundestag perceives with great concern that the Armenian Conference of internationally renowned Turkish scientists, which was to be held in Istanbul from 25-27 May 2005, has been prevented by the Turkish Minister of Justice and that the positions taken by these scientists, which diverged from the government’s opinion, were defamed as “a stab in the back of the Turkish nation”. The proposal by Minister President Erdogan to set up a joint Turkish-Armenian commission of historians can only succeed if it is implemented on the basis of a free and public scientific discourse.

    Germany, which has also made its contribution to the crimes against the Armenian people falling into oblivion, is now obliged to face her own responsibility. This responsibility involves supporting Turks and Armenians in seeking reconciliation and mutual understanding over the trenches of the past.

    Both major churches in Germany, in particular, have for many years advocated the integration of the Armenians from Turkey. The Armenian communities which have settled here offer the opportunity of reconciliation and remembrance. Particularly in view of the large number of Turkish Muslims living in Germany, it is an important task to bring to mind the past and so to make the first steps toward reconciliation.

    But dealing with these historical events also has an immediate significance for the present. Today, the normalization of the relations between the Republic of Turkey and the Republic of Armenia is of paramount interest and importance for the future of the entire region. What is urgently needed is to establish trust-forming measures on both sides as defined in the OSCE principles. Turkey opening the borders to Armenia could, for instance, help to relieve Armenia’s isolation and promote the taking up of diplomatic relations.

    Due to its historic role in the Turkish-Armenian relations, Germany must assume a special responsibility as part of its neighborhood initiative of the EU. The aim must be to help normalize and improve the situation between Armenia and Turkey and so to help stabilize the Caucasus region.

    One important contribution toward remembrance can be made by the German federal states. The duty of the information and education policy involves actions for facing the expulsion and annihilation of the Armenians as part of the whole history of ethnic conflicts in the 20th century, also in Germany.

    The German Bundestag requests the Federal Government

    - to help the Turks and Armenians to arrive at a settlement by remembering, reconciliation and forgiving historical guilt
    - to ensure that Parliament, Government and society in Turkey deal without reservation with their role in relation to the Armenian people in the past and in the present
    - to advocate the establishment of a commission of historians including Turkish, Armenian and international experts
    - to ensure that not only the archives of the Ottoman Empire on this issue are made accessible to the general public, but also the copies of the German Foreign Office archives given by Germany to Turkey
    - to insist on the actual organization of the conference scheduled in Istanbul but postponed under governmental pressure
    - to press for freedom of opinion in Turkey, in particular with respect to the fate of the Armenians
    - to help Turkey and Armenia to normalize their interstate relationships.

    Berlin, June 15, 2005

    Franz Müntefering and parliamentary group Dr. Angela Merkel, Michael Glos and parliamentary group Katrin Göring-Eckardt, Krista Sager and parliamentary group Dr. Wolfgang Gerhard and parliamentary group

    Reasons for the motion
    Ninety years ago, on April 24, 1915, the Young Turkish movement controlling the Ottoman Empire ordered the Armenian cultural and political elite in Istanbul to be arrested, deported inland and for the most part murdered. This day has become the day of remembrance for Armenians throughout the world for the expulsion and massacre of the Armenian subjects of the Ottoman Empire which took place as early as the end of the 19th century and intensified during the First World War.

    When the Ottoman Empire joined the war, the Armenian soldiers drafted into the Ottoman army were grouped into work battalions and most were murdered. Beginning in the spring of 1915, women, children and old people were sent on death marches through the Syrian desert. Those who had not died or been murdered on the way met this fate at the latest when they reached the inhuman camps in the desert near Deir ez Zôr. Massacres were also committed by units specially set up for this purpose. Resistance by high-ranking Turkish officials against this course of action, as well as criticism from the Ottoman parliament, was brutally suppressed by the Young Turkish regime. Many areas from which Christian Armenians had been expelled were later settled with Kurds and Muslin refugees from the Balkan wars. Members of other ethnic Christian groups, in particular Arameic/Assyrian and Chaldean Christians, but also certain Muslim minorities, were also affected by deportations and massacres.

    According to independent estimates, more than 1 million Armenians fell victim to the deportations and mass murders. Many independent historians, parliaments and international organizations describe the expulsion and annihilation of the Armenians as genocide.

    Until this day and contrary to the facts, the Turkish Republic as the legal successor of the Ottoman Empire denies that these atrocities had been well planned and organized and/or that the mass deaths during the resettlement treks and the massacres had been desired by the Ottoman government. The admitted severity of the actions against the Armenians has always been justified by the fact that many Armenians had fought on Russia’s side against Turkey both in 1878 and in 1914/1915 and that there had supposedly been the danger that these Armenians would also have fallen into the back of the Ottoman Empire during WW I. Other Turkish defenses invoked the acts of violence committed by Armenians against Turks which occurred during the armed resistance to the Turkish resettlement measures. The terrorist attacks by Armenians against Turks perpetrated right into the eighties of the twentieth century are also used as justification for the Turkish position.

    In all, the true extent of the massacres and deportations is still belittled and largely disputed in Turkey today. This Turkish attitude stands in opposition to the idea of reconciliation which guides the common values of the European Union. Even today, historians in Turkey are not free in coming to terms with the history of deportations and murder of Armenians and, in spite of some relaxation in the previous criminal liability, still find themselves under great pressure.

    The German Empire as the major military ally of the Ottoman Empire was also deeply involved in these events. Both the political and the military leadership of the German Empire had been aware of the persecution and murder of the Armenians right from the beginning. The files of the German Foreign Office resting on reports by the German embassy and consulates in the Ottoman Empire document the planned and organized execution of the massacres and deportations. In spite of urgent requests by many German personalities in science, politics and the churches, among these politicians like Philipp Scheidemann, Karl Liebknecht or Matthias Erzberger, and eminent persons of the protestant and catholic churches such as Adolf von Harnack and Lorenz Werthmann, the German Reich government failed to exert pressure on its Ottoman ally.

    When the protestant theologian Dr. Johannes Lepsius presented the outcome of his research in Istanbul to the German Reichstag on October 5, 1915, the whole of the subject of the Armenians was censored by the German Reich government. In 1916, the German military censorship banned and confiscated Johannes Lepsius’ “Report on the Situation of the Armenian People in Turkey”. The copies of this documentation which Lepsius had sent directly to the delegates of the German Reichstag were intercepted by the authorities and not handed to the delegates until after the war in 1919.

    This almost forgotten policy of repression by the German Reich demonstrates that this chapter of history still waits to be dealt with in a satisfactory manner here in Germany.


    • #32
      The resolution is a serious blow to Turks, it basically re-tells the Armenian Genocide word for word and says that the current Turkish government is fully responsible for Ottoman Empire's actions and needs to formally aknowledge the Armenian attrocities, mass murders, which we all know means "Genocide", it even mentions that most historians and scholars do agree that it was a Genocide.


      • #33
        Originally posted by Kharpert
        Turkey, Greece, and Bulgaria are all independent. Iraq barely exists.

        No, I don't think so. Illegal processes taken in these countries. These are mostly directed by the super-power US. I will tell you something, before Iraq war, a law plan came to the government that the allowance for US troops wihch will enter Iraq. It had rejected and what happened so? After a week, in the border close to Iraq, Turkish soldiers captured by US troops and held bag on their heads and wretched to people. This is a reply from the US. Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria...The can not do anytihng harming US profit. For example US Army placed and started to connect the gas pipes comming from the Middle Asia by using its new base in Bulgaria.

        Emperialism nowadays exists by not taking their flag, by placing the ruling position of governments. So, Cypriots in South, Kurds in Iraq are used by big nations, just like the Armenians used before. Yes, this is emperialism my friend..


        • #34
          Originally posted by HayerMiacek
          The resolution is a serious blow to Turks, it basically re-tells the Armenian Genocide word for word and says that the current Turkish government is fully responsible for Ottoman Empire's actions and needs to formally aknowledge the Armenian attrocities, mass murders, which we all know means "Genocide", it even mentions that most historians and scholars do agree that it was a Genocide.
          We will always responsible for our history, our fathers are Ottomans..So, do you find out it right that the law expects it illegal saying "There is not an Armenian Genocide" in France? Is it democratic? So where is this fear coming from?

          Most of the historian "should" agree because if they not, they would find themselves in jail!


          • #35
            genocide is an emperialist thing

            like to jewishin germany
            like to indian in usa
            lkie to algerian in algair by france
            like in ruanda by france
            like in madacasgar....


            • #36
              Most historians do agree it was Genocide,There will come a day when Turkish so-called historians Will find them selves in jail from denial.
              "All truth passes through three stages:
              First, it is ridiculed;
              Second, it is violently opposed; and
              Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

              Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)


              • #37
                Originally posted by Gavur
                Most historians do agree it was Genocide,There will come a day when Turkish so-called historians Will find them selves in jail from denial.
                I asked you this, it is democratic to send people to jail for observing scienctific information? Why do you so annoyed for the anti-thesis? You have to face with the other side of the medallion and prove the truth if you want to show people something. But Armenian side always rejected the arguement proposal from the Turkish side. That shows what is what


                • #38
                  all the archives of türkiye are open to armeian....came and see?dont be afraid come and see the real paper of 1910s


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by reall
                    all the archives of türkiye are open to armeian....came and see?dont be afraid come and see the real paper of 1910s
                    The archives that were either erased or falsified...pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee

                    Why did it take the Turkish government over 80 years to open its archives?


                    • #40
                      Read Taner Akcam he says not all the Ottoman archives are olen but the the ones that are when put together with the German and other archives prove there was Genocide!
                      "All truth passes through three stages:
                      First, it is ridiculed;
                      Second, it is violently opposed; and
                      Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

                      Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)