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To All the Denialists Here

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  • #41
    So your wrong again sesame breath!
    "All truth passes through three stages:
    First, it is ridiculed;
    Second, it is violently opposed; and
    Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

    Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

    Comment


    • #42
      Aytug,

      I should begin by saying it shouldn't come off as surprising to anyone that corruption takes place in a nation's government. Even the United States has it's fair share of corruption; it's NOT a sign of imperialism.

      The rest of your explanation is describing alliances. Well, that's certainly true; the United States is the most powerful member of NATO (of which Turkey is a part), but that isn't a byproduct of imperialism. The United States does not dictate Turkey's economy; it does not have control over Greece's government; it does not impose base construction in Bulgaria. Don't you remember when Turkey rejected the United States' offer to build a base in Turkey? Doesn't that tell you that these nations are autonomous and can deny their relationship to the U.S. if they want to?

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by Aytug
        I asked you this, it is democratic to send people to jail for observing scienctific information? Why do you so annoyed for the anti-thesis? You have to face with the other side of the medallion and prove the truth if you want to show people something. But Armenian side always rejected the arguement proposal from the Turkish side. That shows what is what
        So, European countries should null their laws that ban Holocaust denial and they should promote debates between Holocaust denialists and the rest?

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by Gavur
          Most historians do agree it was Genocide,There will come a day when Turkish so-called historians Will find them selves in jail from denial.
          Most historians? When we show you historians that don't agree, you say they are paid by Turkey and should be put in jail. With that mentality of course you will think most historians agree with you. And why do you support people getting in jail for expressing their thoughts may I ask? That's a faschist behaviour. I'm sure everybody agrees with that. I think you need to learn about what democracy and human rights are before accusing people of genocide.
          www.armeniangenocide.com

          Comment


          • #45
            Silver, have you heard of the trial of David Irving?
            Originally posted by Silver
            When we show you historians that don't agree, you say they are paid by Turkey
            No, no, no, you have it backwards. When historians are paid by Turkey, we don't agree with them, because they are being paid to say something that isn't true!

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by Silver
              Most historians? When we show you historians that don't agree, you say they are paid by Turkey and should be put in jail. With that mentality of course you will think most historians agree with you. And why do you support people getting in jail for expressing their thoughts may I ask? That's a faschist behaviour. I'm sure everybody agrees with that. I think you need to learn about what democracy and human rights are before accusing people of genocide.
              INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GENOCIDE SCHOLARS




              President

              Israel Charny (Israel)



              First Vice-President

              Gregory H. Stanton (USA)



              Second Vice-President

              Linda Melvern (UK)



              Secretary-Treasurer

              Steven Jacobs (USA)







              June 13, 2005





              Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan

              TC Easbakanlik

              Bakanlikir

              Ankara, Turkey



              FAX: 90 312 417 0476



              Dear Prime Minister Erdogan:



              We are writing you this open letter in response to your call for an “impartial study by historians” concerning the fate of the Armenian people in the Ottoman Empire during World War I.



              We represent the major body of scholars who study genocide in North America and Europe. We are concerned that in calling for an impartial study of the Armenian Genocide you may not be fully aware of the extent of the scholarly and intellectual record on the Armenian Genocide and how this event conforms to the definition of the United Nations Genocide Convention. We want to underscore that it is not just Armenians who are affirming the Armenian Genocide but it is the overwhelming opinion of scholars who study genocide: hundreds of independent scholars, who have no affiliations with governments, and whose work spans many countries and nationalities and the course of decades. The scholarly evidence reveals the following:



              On April 24, 1915, under cover of World War I, the Young Turk government of the Ottoman Empire began a systematic genocide of its Armenian citizens – an unarmed Christian minority population. More than a million Armenians were exterminated through direct killing, starvation, torture, and forced death marches. The rest of the Armenian population fled into permanent exile. Thus an ancient civilization was expunged from its homeland of 2,500 years.



              The Armenian Genocide was the most well-known human rights issue of its time and was reported regularly in newspapers across the United States and Europe. The Armenian Genocide is abundantly documented by thousands of official records of the United States and nations around the world including Turkey’s wartime allies Germany, Austria and Hungary, by Ottoman court-martial records, by eyewitness accounts of missionaries and diplomats, by the testimony of survivors, and by decades of historical scholarship.



              The Armenian Genocide is corroborated by the international scholarly, legal, and human rights community:

              1) Polish jurist Raphael Lemkin, when he coined the term genocide in 1944, cited the Turkish extermination of the Armenians and the Nazi extermination of the Jews as defining examples of what he meant by genocide.

              2) The killings of the Armenians is genocide as defined by the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.

              3) In 1997 the International Association of Genocide Scholars, an organization of the world’s foremost experts on genocide, unanimously passed a formal resolution affirming the Armenian Genocide.

              4) 126 leading scholars of the Holocaust including Elie Wiesel and Yehuda Bauer placed a statement in the New York Times in June 2000 declaring the “incontestable fact of the Armenian Genocide” and urging western democracies to acknowledge it.

              5) The Institute on the Holocaust and Genocide (Jerusalem), and the Institute for the Study of Genocide (NYC) have affirmed the historical fact of the Armenian Genocide.

              6) Leading texts in the international law of genocide such as William A. Schabas’s Genocide in International Law (Cambridge University Press, 2000) cite the Armenian Genocide as a precursor to the Holocaust and as a precedent for the law on crimes against humanity.



              We note that there may be differing interpretations of genocide—how and why the Armenian Genocide happened, but to deny its factual and moral reality as genocide is not to engage in scholarship but in propaganda and efforts to absolve the perpetrator, blame the victims, and erase the ethical meaning of this history.



              We would also note that scholars who advise your government and who are affiliated in other ways with your state-controlled institutions are not impartial. Such so-called “scholars” work to serve the agenda of historical and moral obfuscation when they advise you and the Turkish Parliament on how to deny the Armenian Genocide. In preventing a conference on the Armenian Genocide from taking place at Bogacizi University in Istanbul on May 25, your government revealed its aversion to academic and intellectual freedom—a fundamental condition of democratic society.



              We believe that it is clearly in the interest of the Turkish people and their future as a proud and equal participants in international, democratic discourse to acknowledge the responsibility of a previous government for the genocide of the Armenian people, just as the German government and people have done in the case of the Holocaust.

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by Silver
                Most historians? When we show you historians that don't agree, you say they are paid by Turkey and should be put in jail. With that mentality of course you will think most historians agree with you. And why do you support people getting in jail for expressing their thoughts may I ask? That's a faschist behaviour. I'm sure everybody agrees with that. I think you need to learn about what democracy and human rights are before accusing people of genocide.
                International Affirmation of the Armenian Genocide

                Public Petitions

                Statement by 126 Holocaust Scholars, Holders of Academic Chairs, and Directors of Holocaust Research and Studies Centers

                March 7, 2000

                View image of the petition appeared in New York Times, June 9, 2000.

                126 HOLOCAUST SCHOLARS AFFIRM THE INCONTESTABLE FACT OF THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE AND URGE WESTERN DEMOCRACIES TO OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZE IT

                At the Thirtieth Anniversary of the Scholar's Conference on the Holocaust and the Churches Convening at St. Joseph University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, March 3-7, 2000, one hundred twenty-six Holocaust Scholars, holders of Academic Chairs and Directors of Holocaust Research and Studies Centers, participants of the Conference, signed a statement affirming that the World War I Armenian Genocide is an incontestable historical fact and accordingly urge the governments of Western democracies to likewise recognize it as such. The petitioners, among whom is Nobel Laureate for Peace Elie Wiesel, who was the keynote speaker at the conference, also asked the Western Democracies to urge the Government and Parliament of Turkey to finally come to terms with a dark chapter of Ottoman-Turkish history and to recognize the Armenian Genocide. This would provide an invaluable impetus to the process of the democratization of Turkey.

                Below is a partial list of the signatories:


                Prof. Yehuda Bauer
                Distinguished Professor
                Hebrew University
                Director, The International Institute of Holocaust Research
                Yad Vashem, Jerusalem

                Prof. Israel Charny, Director
                Institute of the Holocaust and Genocide, Jerusalem
                Professor at the Hebrew University,
                Editor-in-Chief of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

                Prof. Ward Churchill
                Ethnic Studies
                The University of Colorado, Boulder

                Prof. Stephen Feinstein, Director
                Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies
                University of Minnesota

                Prof. Saul Friedman, Director
                Holocaust and Jewish Studies
                Youngston State University, Ohio

                Prof. Edward Gaffney
                Valparaiso University Law School

                Prof. Zev Garber
                Los Angeles Valley College

                Prof. Dorota Glowacka
                University of King's Collage
                Halifax, Nova Scotia

                Dr. Irving Greenberg, President
                Jewish Life Network

                Prof. Herbert Hirsch
                Virginia Commonwealth University

                Prof. Irving L. Horowitz
                Hannah Arendt Distinguished Professor
                Rutgers University, NJ

                Rabbi Dr. Steve Jacobs
                Temple Sinai Shalom
                Huntsville, Alabama
                Associate Editor of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

                Prof. Steven Katz
                Distinguish Professor
                Director, Center for Judaic Studies
                Boston University



                Prof. Richard Libowitz
                Temple University

                Dr. Marcia Littell
                Stockton College
                Exec. Director, Scholars' Conference
                On the Holocaust and the Churches

                Franklin Littell
                Emeritus Professor
                Temple University

                Prof. Hubert G. Locke
                Washington University
                Co-founder of the Annual Scholar's Conference
                On the Holocaust and the Churches

                Dr. Elizabeth Maxwell
                Executive Director of the International Scholarly
                Conference on the Holocaust, London, England

                Prof. Erik Markusen
                Southwest State University, MN

                Prof. Saul Mendlowitz
                Dag Hammerskjold Distinguished Professor
                of International Law
                Rutgers University

                Prof. Jack Needle, Director
                Center for Holocaust Studies
                Brookdale Community College
                Lincroft, NJ

                Dr. Philip Rosen, Director
                Holocaust Education Center of the Delaware Valley

                Prof. Alan S, Rosenbaum
                Dept. of Philosophy
                Cleveland State University

                William L. Shulman, President
                Association of Holocaust Organizations City University of New York

                Prof. Samuel Totten
                The University of Arkansas
                Assoc. Editor of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

                Prof. Elie Wiesel
                Andrew W. Mellon Professor in the Humanities
                Boston University
                Founding Chairman of the United States
                Holocaust Memorial Council
                Nobel Laureate for Peace

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by Kharpert
                  Aytug,
                  ... The United States does not dictate Turkey's economy... Don't you remember when Turkey rejected the United States' offer to build a base in Turkey? ...
                  I can swear you that we all in the command of US economically, thanks(!) to the IMF...

                  We rejected because we all in command of the US. How could you minimize the effect of the US in world changes, politicians? So many of them lived there, so many of them writing by earnin money from somewhere...
                  www.armeniangenocide.com

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by HayerMiacek

                    Prof. Ward Churchillyan
                    Ethnic Studies
                    The University of Colorado, Boulder


                    Dr. Philip Rosenyan, Director
                    Holocaust Education Center of the Delaware Valley

                    Prof. Alan S, Rosenbaumyan
                    Dept. of Philosophy
                    Cleveland State University

                    William L. Shulmanyan, President
                    Association of Holocaust Organizations City University of New York

                    Prof. Samuel Tottenyan
                    The University of Arkansas
                    Assoc. Editor of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

                    Prof. Elie Wieselyan
                    Andrew W. Mellon Professor in the Humanities
                    Boston University
                    Founding Chairman of the United States
                    Holocaust Memorial Council
                    Nobel Laureate for Peace[/B]
                    I don't also surprised to the Jews...
                    www.armeniangenocide.com

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Aytug
                      I don't also surprised to the Jews...
                      you are a true idiot!

                      I just showed you how the majority of genocide scholars all affirm the AG and you change their last names to "ian", very mature of you

                      if all the denialists had brains and logic like you, we would have won the battle long time ago

                      Comment

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