What do Armenians think of Ataturk?

[Bulgarian]

Never knew an Armenian saved his life. But I do know that Enver's life was saved by an Armenian soldier at the Sarikamish front.

Do you know where I can find information about this?

[Vogelgrippe]

Yikes. Gotta love that first part, to paraphrase the Turkish point of view;
"See, some Armenians are honorable". Pathetic.

Joseph, I do not see anything pathetic in it, even though your 'paraphrasing' is a little manipulative. The first sentence reads as 'There were many Armenians who were loyal to the Turkish nation. Here is the story of one remarkable example, who came through when his nation needed him the most. ' You probably know better than me that when you replace 'many' with 'some', the meaning of every sentence changes.


Even if I take the manipulated version at face value, I endorse the statement that some Armenians are honorable, as well as some Turks, while some are not.

What I find even more astonishingly pathetic is that some Armenians here are claiming that Keresteciyan was a traitor while at the same time stating that the majority of Ottoman Armenians were loyal citizens. Why then slander a loyal Ottoman Armenian whose acts undermined some Dashnak interests?

[Joseph]

Joseph, I do not see anything pathetic in it, even though your 'paraphrasing' is a little manipulative. The first sentence reads as 'There were many Armenians who were loyal to the Turkish nation. Here is the story of one remarkable example, who came through when his nation needed him the most. ' You probably know better than me that when you replace 'many' with 'some', the meaning of every sentence changes.


Even if I take the manipulated version at face value, I endorse the statement that some Armenians are honorable, as well as some Turks, while some are not.

What I find even more astonishingly pathetic is that some Armenians here are claiming that Keresteciyan was a traitor while at the same time stating that the majority of Ottoman Armenians were loyal citizens. Why then slander a loyal Ottoman Armenian whose acts undermined some Dashnak interests?

Again, I was paraphrasing. I stand by what I say and not because I'm trying to be belligerent but because I've seen similar statements repeated ad nauseum on Turkish government sites. If you read the original quote: "There were many Armenians who were loyal to the Turkish nation. Here is the story of one remarkable example, who came through when his nation needed him the most." It is at best, a back-handed compliment and at worst, an outright insult to Armenians. Quotes like this and others like it in reference to "loyal" Armenians essentially send this message:

a. One must follow orders unquestioningly and be willing to submit
b. You worthiness can only be measured by how loyal you are to your Turkish masters
c. Though "many" Armenians are worthy to reside amongst us, most Armenians are not worthy
d. This case is "remarkable" in that we see an Armenian actually doing something good for Turkish society even though the rest of his lot are considered our enemies.

I think we all agree that Armenians were one of the most "loyal" segments in Ottoman society prior to WWI. I think you can rightly say that by the late spring of 1915, if any Armenian was not defending himself against his own government, he/she was already dead, unable to defend himself/herself, suicidal, or mentally deranged. Thus you can see, for a man like Keresticiyan to contribute to the Turkish Nationalist (who were indeed engaged in mop-up operations throughout Anatolia well into the 1920's) effort even after the obliteration of his people, he would be seen as pathetic to his people.

I agree with your last statement if we are talking in generalities about human beings but not in the context of loyalty to a state. Yes, there are good an bad in a human ethnicities, sub-sets, nations, religions, social-classes, etc.

Herein lies the great disconnect between Armenian and Turkish societies.

[1.5 million]

Ataturk was one of the greatest political figures of the 20th century who "saved" the Turkish nation and brought Turks into the 20th century - however - like many great men he had his dark side(s) - of those - his turning away from the Armenians and acting to complete the Genocide is a great crime for which he can never be forgiven. He sacrificed his humanity for an ideal which contained within it the inhumane concept of the slaughter and marginalization of an innocent people. In the short term he is seen as a founder of a nation-state and a deliver - in the long term he will always be seen as the one who perpetrated the final acts of genocide of an ancient, most noteworthy, special and unique people - who were entirely undeserving of such a fate.

Pity though that such a man fell to the Turks...imagine if the Armenians had the benefit of one such as he....

[bell-the-cat]

Ataturk was one of the greatest political figures of the 20th century who "saved" the Turkish nation and brought Turks into the 20th century - however - like many great men he had his dark side(s) - of those - his turning away from the Armenians and acting to complete the Genocide is a great crime for which he can never be forgiven. He sacrificed his humanity for an ideal which contained within it the inhumane concept of the slaughter and marginalization of an innocent people. In the short term he is seen as a founder of a nation-state and a deliver - in the long term he will always be seen as the one who perpetrated the final acts of genocide of an ancient, most noteworthy, special and unique people - who were entirely undeserving of such a fate.

Pity though that such a man fell to the Turks...imagine if the Armenians had the benefit of one such as he....

More of Winston's lamentable misunderstanding of Turkey.
If you think that a dictator of an unimportant country, from an obsolete era full of military strong-men, can be included as one of the greatest political figures of the 20th century then your misunderstandings are becoming fatal!

Ataturk's legacy in Turkey was dictatorship until the 1950s, a completely unrealistic planned-economic model based on Soviet lines that still shackles Turkey's economy, the stagnation of all political and intellectual thought until the 1990s, and the enshrining of Islamic institutions into the very heart of the Turkish state. This last legacy will be the most damaging in the long term. Rather than making Islam an obsolete concept within Turkey, Attaturk seeked to preserve it in order to make it into his ally. That was OK as long as it could be controlled and kept as a curious hobby for just the peasants. But those peasants (or rather their "kiosk Islam" urban-living descendants) are now in the majority and can blindly vote Turkey into becoming a fundamentalist Islamic state.

[watercolours]

Fact: As you have said, Armenians were the most loyal nation to The Ottomans so that they were called as "Christian Turks" by the historians. Both Turkish and Armenian people lived in peace for centuries. Some Armenian people took roles in governments.
Question: Why do you think Armenians turned against Turkish and vice versa?
Clue: Search the British spy games. Then search what Armenians have done with Russia supported weapons during Russian invasion?

Fact: One have mentioned about Ataturk have let Armenians live under communism for 50 years which also let them stand as a nation.
Question: Despite 7 centuries of Ottomans rule Armenian people kept their language, traditions, cultures. And colonies of Western countries have lost their identity in just 2 centuries. Is it Ottoman' lack of authority or a shame of western civilization?
Answer: If The Ottomans have had the view point of those western countries, I'm sorry, but today there would not have been any Armenian, Greek, Bulgar, Macedon, Arab, Kurd, etc. Please consider this once in your life.

Fact: Ataturk has carried Turkish people to 20th century. And instead of becoming a king -as many wanted- he formed a senate, he founded a republic, he resisted to be a permanent president, he insisted on elections. He always have wanted democracy, tried it twice but Turkish nation was not ready for that. So some facts should have been considered in their time and circumstances.

[AsilTürk]

The Answers are simple, aren't they?
Frenchs, Englishs, and American missioners agitated Armenians..

Armenians and Turks lived with a great friendly relation in yhe Ottoman Empire. Alsoi Armenians were the reachest nation in the Ottoman State. But, now look at the poor Armenia.

[hypatia]

listen meeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!

i read this forum .... i laughed too muchhh. you know nothing about turkey, turks, atatürk and world histoy.i laughed so much.are you really so ignorant and uncultured?please prove this to all the world.prove if it is real and lived you can prove it.that 1,5 million owwwwww what a big number.we killed heee? are you really believe this?are you sure?if so why can't you prove it?you and people like you will never take sth from our country and us.and you believe your lies.you killed us and we killed you.just we answered you.and if you again kill us we will answered you again.give up this lies.

---dog barks, caravans go-----

[hypatia]

to bulgarian,!!!!!!!!!!!!
you are a bulgarian, could you come and save our country TÜRKİYE at past?
bulgarian answer:nnnnnnnooooooooo never
why atatürk do this if he was bulgarian?


---dog barks, caravans go-----

[AsilTürk]

The truth does not depend on what you believe.

Atatürk is a Turk. There are a lot of blonde Turks in Turkey like Ataturk

Noone bans Kurdish or imposes The Turk identity in Turkey. This issue is already pointless because Kurds are Turks.
We do not do racism. In our country, people who lived in Turkey are called Turks. But noone bans somebody's local language or identitiy

I thought Ataturk was fighting in Galipoli in 1915 (during the genocide) and was not a important figure at that time. This is the reason why I dont think he was involved in the genocide.

Although he was the one that caused the Kurds that live in current day Turkey problems like banning their langauge, trying to impose Turkish identity on them and mass murdering them.

Ataturk was blonde and had blue eyes which is why I believe he was a Bulgarian (or perhaps a Macedonian).