Absolutely Disgusting

[Joseph]

Below is a story from Sabah. I cannot believe what this article is trying to say... equating Talaat Pasha with Hrant Dink. What scum.




Incredible coincidence in the hole at the bottom of the shoes

Shooting Hrant Dink on the neck and the crack on his shoes reminded me of another murder in Berlin 86 years ago: the murder of grand vizier Talat Pasha. The pasha was killed by a terrorist named Sogomon Tehliryan in Berlin on 15 March 1921.

Hrant Dink was killed with two bullets on his neck. The photographs showed the crack at the bottom of his shoes. Dink was determined to stay in Turkey despite everything. He could have lived in another place in comfort and moreover he would have his shoes in good condition. But I am going to remember two elements in his murder: the shot on his neck and the crack on his shoes; which are the indispensable parts of the Armenian issue for 80 years or more. Whatever nationality he has, the murderer is always the same. The first murder was in 1921 and the victim was the vizier Talat Pasha at that time. He was also shot on the neck and he had crack on his shoes. He was one of the strongest man of the empire. Talat Pasha was proclaimed to be the "architect of the Armenian events" and "the biggest enemy". He was also shot in the middle of the street just like Hrant Dink. The pasha was killed by a terrorist named Sogomon Tehliryan in Berlin on 15 March 1921.

Publish Date: 21.01.2007
Link: http://english.sabah.com.tr/6E96E0B8...175D0CF26.html

[1.5 million]

haha - yes so typical - next they will claim Dink was killed by System of a Down as publicity for their movie. There is no limits to the depths that such deniers will go. The International press should pick this up and dig further....just who was this Talat guy anyway and why was he killed? etc

[muratkanat6907]

No equity, of course

I think, what the writer wants to point out that both of them showed as "biggest enemy", and target for radicals.
And that's what we are arguing here in Turkey. Most of the people believed that Hrant Dink was pointed as an "enemy of Turkish State" and there is a huge protest against those radical nationalist people.
Personally I'm throughly sorry for his lost especially for my country. Because he was a through democrat who believed freedom of speech and he loved his country, that much that he never consider to go abroad..
"Radicalism" is I hate most...

Below is a story from Sabah. I cannot believe what this article is trying to say... equating Talaat Pasha with Hrant Dink. What scum.




Incredible coincidence in the hole at the bottom of the shoes

Shooting Hrant Dink on the neck and the crack on his shoes reminded me of another murder in Berlin 86 years ago: the murder of grand vizier Talat Pasha. The pasha was killed by a terrorist named Sogomon Tehliryan in Berlin on 15 March 1921.

Hrant Dink was killed with two bullets on his neck. The photographs showed the crack at the bottom of his shoes. Dink was determined to stay in Turkey despite everything. He could have lived in another place in comfort and moreover he would have his shoes in good condition. But I am going to remember two elements in his murder: the shot on his neck and the crack on his shoes; which are the indispensable parts of the Armenian issue for 80 years or more. Whatever nationality he has, the murderer is always the same. The first murder was in 1921 and the victim was the vizier Talat Pasha at that time. He was also shot on the neck and he had crack on his shoes. He was one of the strongest man of the empire. Talat Pasha was proclaimed to be the "architect of the Armenian events" and "the biggest enemy". He was also shot in the middle of the street just like Hrant Dink. The pasha was killed by a terrorist named Sogomon Tehliryan in Berlin on 15 March 1921.

Publish Date: 21.01.2007
Link: http://english.sabah.com.tr/6E96E0B8...175D0CF26.html

[Hovik]

I think, what the writer wants to point out that both of them showed as "biggest enemy", and target for radicals.
And that's what we are arguing here in Turkey. Most of the people believed that Hrant Dink was pointed as an "enemy of Turkish State" and there is a huge protest against those radical nationalist people.
Personally I'm throughly sorry for his lost especially for my country. Because he was a through democrat who believed freedom of speech and he loved his country, that much that he never consider to go abroad..
"Radicalism" is I hate most...

Soghoman Teliryan was not a radical. He watched 7 members of his family get butchered, his sisters raped, their unborn children carved from their wombs... as a young child. All this occured on orders from Talatt Pasha...

Did Hrant Dink order the death of the gunmans family?

Get the hell out of this forum...

[Joseph]

More disgusting commentary

"CIA and Mossad are Behind the Hrant Dink Murder"
Journal of Turkish Weekly
Jan. 22, 2007

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=42194

DIYARBAKIR - Sevket Kazan, Deputy of the Saadet Party (SP) of Turkey,
argued that the CIA and Mossad planned and organised the murder
against the Armenian Turkish journalist Hrant Dink.

"The boys were used in Trabzon and in Sisli attacks and murders, but
the real murderer are the CIA and the Mossad" Mr. Kazan said. Sevket
Kazan further continued in his Diyarbakir speech:

"Armenian journalist Hrant Dink is a victim of an assasination. Of
course, it is an event to be condemned.... The priest murder in
Trabzon and the Dink Murder, both, were committed by the boys under 18
years old... The CIA and the Mossad are the behinde of all these
murders, yet they use domestic tools for these crimes. Their main aim
is to instablise Turkey."

JTW
22 January 2007

[Joseph]

"CIA and Mossad are Behind the Hrant Dink Murder"
Journal of Turkish Weekly
Jan. 22, 2007

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=42194

DIYARBAKIR - Sevket Kazan, Deputy of the Saadet Party (SP) of Turkey,
argued that the CIA and Mossad planned and organised the murder
against the Armenian Turkish journalist Hrant Dink.

"The boys were used in Trabzon and in Sisli attacks and murders, but
the real murderer are the CIA and the Mossad" Mr. Kazan said. Sevket
Kazan further continued in his Diyarbakir speech:

"Armenian journalist Hrant Dink is a victim of an assasination. Of
course, it is an event to be condemned.... The priest murder in
Trabzon and the Dink Murder, both, were committed by the boys under 18
years old... The CIA and the Mossad are the behinde of all these
murders, yet they use domestic tools for these crimes. Their main aim
is to instablise Turkey."

JTW
22 January 2007

Why not blame everyone else?

[Joseph]

Yet more disgusting commentary

Turkish Press
Jan 20 2007

Assasination Of Dink, A Trap Set For Turkey Says Retired General Edip
Baser
Published: 1/20/2007


ISTANBUL - Retired General Edip Baser, Turkey`s special
representative for countering terrorism, said murder of Hrat Dink,
editor-in-chief of bilingual Turkish-Armenian weekly Agos, is a trap
in order to put Turkey on the spot in terms of its international
relations, and added that Turkey should not walk into this trap.
Retired Gen. told A.A that this is a very sad event. "The murder of
one of our citizens in such a mean terrorist attack is very sad in
the first place. On the other hand, one has to see the trap set for
Turkey and one must be sensible in order not to walk into this trap.
In my opinion, all our citizens, no matter from which ethnicity,
should have common sense regarding these issues," said Baser.

"I think this was a trap to put Turkey on the spot in terms of
international relations. Especially in a period when Armenian claims
of genocide are brought to spotlight, that such an attack has
occurred these days when all Turkey`s attention was on the troubled
region in the south (north of Iraq) is reminiscent of different
intentions," continued retired Gen. Baser.

Baser said one of the aims can be to reach faster solutions in
countries where the claims of the so-called Armenian genocide will be
discussed.

Turkey`s special representative for countering terrorism said another
reason could be to direct Turkey`s attention from Iraq and the
national interests there, and keep Turkey busy with internal
conflicts.

Baser who drew attention to journalist identity of Dink said his
assassination will attract reactions from more than one aspect.
"Those who planned this attack calculate the reactions, its zone of
influence, therefore they select people such as Dink in order to have
a wider zone of influence."

Retired Gen. Baser offered his condolences to everyone, Armenian
citizens in particular.

[1.5 million]

Murat90210 - a couple of things - first I'm glad that you seem to at least understand that Dink was someone who - although an Armenian - was a citizen of Turkey who had a love for his land and wished for postive change - that he was no "enemy" of Turks or Turkey (and don't think that most Diaspora Armenians don't completely understand this - because we very much do - even if it is not that aspect of Dink that we emphasis regarding his life and tragic death as having the most meaning for us)...however I find that much of your characterization of him, his death and its significance and anologies regarding such to be drastically mislplaced. Additionally, can you not understand why your (and other Turks) highly misguided, incorrect and inappropriate comparisions of the (rightful) assasination of the arch-criminal/villan Talat is not only very hurtful and insulting to Armenians but makes you look like an insensitive idiot who understands nothing at all?

First, Talat was not even a Turkish patriot but a self-seving evil murderous monster who helped to plunge the Turks/Ottoman Empire into a needless and highly destructive war. Of those in the CUP who precipitated the entire disaster of WWI for the Ottoman Empire - it was he who was most responsible for the barbaric hate campaign of destruction against a defensless minority population of the Empire and its utter disenfranchisement all in the name of the worst possible kind of racism, hatred and greed. His motivatioins were entirely evil and self-serving and he was responsible not only for the destruction of the Armenian people - which included the horrible deaths/killing of over 1.5 million defenseless Armenians - including women, children, elderly - in the most cowardly and barbaric of ways - which is now a legacy that Turkey and Turks may never be able to live down and which will certainly be in the history books throughout the world for all time - but you can also blame him for the death and destruction of a great many (perhaps hundreds of thousands) of Turks during that time who died of disease and famine - primarily resulting form the destruction of the Armenians who were both a significant agricultural provider to the Empire and whose mass deaths accross the countryside led to desease throughout Anatolia (and of course plunging the bankrupt and already at the brink of collapse Ottoman Empire into yet another losing war effort didn't help and was certainly not in the interests of all the people who had already been bled dry by the Sultan). So this Talat was not only the brutal killer of the Armenians but was and should be viewed even by Turks as a great destroyer, killer and is one who bears responsibility for the fall of the Empire and the misery of all of its people.

Contrast this demeon to Hrant Dink - who was a noble man of peace - educated, articulate - with love in is heart for all and who possessed a great sense of fairness and justice. Mr Dink was a hero in every sense of the word - for Armenians and for liberal non-racist non-hateful non hyper-nationalistic Turks (of which there are many....but unfortunatly there are many who are these things still as well). In every way he was the opposite of Talat. He had the potential to be a saviour or at least a significant voice for redemption and progress in Turkey and between our two peoples. At the same time he was an Armenian - one of the few Armenians remaining in Anatolia - our ancient homeland - one of the few who was able to tolerate the continued injustices against us there and live and prosper - regardless of the dangers, inequalities and threats against him. His killing - prompted by the extreme racist nationalism prevelant among significant elements of Turks - and by the denialist, racist and hateful policies of the Turkish government itself - and specifically by the "deep government" of Kemalist elites that truly determine Turkish policy and influence the media and your people by such - by teaching false history and hatred against the Armenians - by indoctrinating Turkish children to (falsely) view Armenians as betrayers (and even to have to produce and essay about such in order to graduate school) - and to be made to falsely believe it was the Armenians who stabbed Turks/Turkey in the back (and not the other way around which is what it truly was) - and to continue this vicious campaign of delaying/preventing justice by denying the Genocide -so in all of this your government, your nation and as a result your people (those who don't speak out against these things) are guilty of perpetuating the Armenian Genocide by your killing of Dink. Yes of course he was a champion for free speech and liberalism in Turkey and he lived by these principles - but anyone with a brain can see what the true deeper issue is - it is the prevelant distorition of history - denying of the Armenian Genocide and perpetuation of the racist Turkish myth of your existance and history and vilifying of minorities. Until you and other Turks and your government come to deal with this you will continue to be murderers and you will continue the legacy of those before you who commited some of the most brutal acts against mankind ever witnessed with their actions against the Armenians.

And if you come here to an Armenian Genocide commemoration site like this one - particularly at a tragic time like this - where we are reminded of our intense and unvanquished pain - and that such once again has been forced on us once again by some Turks - and you do other then apologize to Armenians and ask what you can do to make things better between us - and instead you make highly inappropriate and insulting comparisons with the rightful justice done to the murderous Talat and/or heap other baseless accusations against Armenians - well then you can only expect that all Armenians will reject you utterly and hope that you rot. Capiche?

[Joseph]

Sedat Laciner has hit a new low...

Turk and Armenian: Hrant Dink and Talat Pasha Murders

Monday , 22 January 2007



View by Sedat LACINER (U.S.A.K.)

Hrant Dink is the first and the only Armenian victim murdered by a politically-motivated Turk in the history of the Turkish Republic. We hope it’s the last. The investigation continues but we don’t think this murder is related with the Armenian problem. It’s also impossible to evaluate the situation as racism. Right after the murder, both Turkish government and the Turkish people are getting along with this incident in a good way. After the murder, all of the Turkish newspapers cursed the incident. Lots of people marched in Ankara and Istanbul shouting ‘we are all Armenians, we are all Hrant Dink’. All of the newspapers in Turkey headlined the murder. Hürriyet for instance declared the murderer as a ‘Traitor to the Motherland’ and Sabah daily headlined the murder as ‘The biggest treason’. Other headlines were similar. Not even one single Turkish newspaper including the ultra-nationalist ones protected the killer. Even the most fanatic nationalists didn’t see the killer as a hero. On the contrary, the killer was seen as a ‘traitor’ and an ‘ignorant boy used by the underground and dark powers’.



Turkey has been accused for its possible responsibility in the murder by foreign press without a cause. Some accused Turkey even of being racist. All these claims and accusations have no base and just. Omer Celik, one of the closest deputies to President Erdogan, has recently offered to put Turkish flag on Mr. Dink’s coffin, a common tradition for the martyrs’ and famous statesmen’ funerals. No one raised any objection to this brave idea but lots of people thought that this was a great idea. As the most important symbol for a nation is a ‘flag’, it’s unfair to blame the Turkish people of being racist or anti-Armenian who want to put their pure flag on the coffin of an Armenian Turkish citizen, Hrant Dink.

President of Turkey, Turkish ministers, governor of Istanbul and top level officials of security bureaucracy all condemned the murder. Murderer was caught in 32 hours. President Erdogan said that ‘Dink was the son of this land’. The main opposition party leader Baykal expressed his despair by saying ‘We couldn’t let him live’. Almost every politician’s common attitude was to curse the murderer and they took the side of Dink. Even the ultra nationalist Turks saw the murder as the ‘agent of the dark powers’. Not even one politician was happy of the homicide. No one saw the murderer as a hero. The person who notified the police was the murder’s own father. None of his relatives said he did a good job. Their common attitude about the murder was that it was unacceptable and their son was used by the evil others. In other words even the killer’s most close relatives didn’t saw him as a hero and didn’t back him up.

***

There is another story on the other side of the medallion.

When Talat Pasha, the Minister of Interior of the Ottoman Empire, was killed by an Armenian named Sogomon Tehliryan on March 15 1921 on a crowded Berlin street (Germany), the attitude of the Armenians were not similar to the attitude of today’s Turkey people. Ironically there are many similarities between the murders of Talat Pasha and of Hrant Dink. As the Turkish historian Murat Bardakci wrote in Sabah newspaper dated 21 January 2007, both victims were shot from the back of their head. The bases of the shooes of the both victims were tattered and holed. Both murders were committed in daylight and on a crowded street. After the Talat Pasha Murder Tehliryan, the Armenian murderer was declared as a hero and even today the Diaspora Armenians and Armenians from Armenia see Tehliryan as a great hero. It was not just the Armenians but also the German Court strangely judged the victim instead of the killer. The Armenian murderer was set free after a short trial. Tehliryan was not the only murderer and terrorist who were declared as a hero by the Armenians. Lots of the Armenian terrorists were declared as heroes afterwards. The Armenian history is full of murderer heroes. Moreover Western courts committed law crimes again and again and set the Armenian killers free. For example the Armenian terrorist Max Kilnajian, who attempted to kill the Turkish ambassador in Bern city, was sentenced to two years by the French court and released shortly after the verdict. The mostly known Armenian terrorist Monte Melkonyan made lots of armed attacks against the Turkish diplomats. In these attacks lots of people were killed. But the French court released Melkonyan after 3 years in prison. Afterwards Mr. Melkonyan joined the Karabakh War against Azerbaijan and he murdered lots of people in that war. But Melkonyan has not been a terrorist or a murderer for Armenians, he has been hero to be respected and followed. Armenia gave salaries to many terrorists and protected them. Unfortunately, while these truths are clear, Armenia and Armenian Diaspora is blaming Republic of Turkey for the Hrant Dink murder.

***

The murder of Hrant Dink is one of the most dramatic murders of our history. But it’s unfair to exert pressure about Armenian problem by using this unfortunate murder. Also the Armenian Diaspora, who is blaming Turkey, was criticized many times by Hrant Dink himself. They were talking about Dink as a “traitor” and “servant of the Turkey” before, but now they are mongering on his death. Actually this is what they have done all the time. They are always using the reciprocal massacres to get the benefit out of it.

I am really sorry about Mr. Dink’s death. Because from now on, it’s hard to find an Armenian like him. Because he was a Turkish Armenian. He was son of this land. He was not making politics on death. He was working for the peoples who live. We have to do just like this from now on. We must not use the dead as an interest. We must not use a barbarous murder to attack each others.

22 January 2007

Trns. by Zerin Acar and Kemal Tuzcu (JTW)

'Heros' and 'Murderers'

[1.5 million]

I would like to ask Mr Laciner just how many Turks deaths Mr Dink was responsible for before he tries to compare Armenian reactions to Talat's killing - and even the killings of Turkish state diplomats - to that of Mr Dink - a private citizen.

Its all well and good for Turks like Mr laciner to say that this murder should not be connected to issues of the Armenian Genocide - of course - they don't believe that there was a Genocide - so they don't believe that there shouldbe any discussion of this event. Next they will claim that Mr Dink was never murdered at all....it was his fault that he stepped into the path of the bullet that the Turk who fired it was justifyied in shooting because of all the indignations that Mr Dink (as an Armenian) had heaped upon the Turkish nation....but no....there was no intent to kill or harm...the shooter was only tryin to herd Mr Dink off of the street - perhaps for his own protection as there were cars moving by at a high rate of speed...can't be halped that Mr Dink stepped in front of that bullet....likewise the anger of the (so-called) assassin was entirely justified....Dink was after all seditious - Turkish courts had convicted him of being such...and he had too many foriegn (Christian) friends....it makes some Turks uneasy...so the entire blame falls on Dink himself - I mean what right does he have - as an Armenian - to be living on Turkish lands in the first place - and he was obviously unahppy to be called a Turk - this cannot do...so he is better off now...and no Turks should feel guilt or shame - they were only responding as one might expect them too....as they have always done...

I also find this statement that Dink's murder is the first politically motivated murder of an Armenian in the history of the Turkish Republic to be quite offensive considering that the founding of the Turkish Republic (mostly by ex-CUP) was demonstradably made possible by the murders of nearly 2 million Armenians - with fully 1/4 of this number having been slain by the Nationalist forces during their so called Turkish War for Independence where Kemal, Karrabakir and other top CUP (er I mean nationalist) leaders repeatedly called for elimination of Armenia as a political entity and Armenians as a group and they then carried out these fiendish plans against a people who had so recently been victim of Turkish directed mass genocide. Additionally this aurthor seems to forget the pograms against Greeks, Armenian and Jews that the Republic of Turkey conducted in the 1930s and 1950s where many thousands were killed, their property and wealth confiscated/stolen and most of those not killed were driven off and/or virtually enslaved to pay off their supposed debts.