Conferderacy of Morons: The New Thread

[Gavur]

We also would like to see the archives of the infamous MIT!

[Gavur]

The Dangers of the Armenian genocide resolution



Michael Radu, Ph.D.
Co-Chairman
Center on Terrorism, Counter-Terrorism, and Homeland Security
Foreign Policy Research Institute
1528 Walnut Street, Suite 610
Philadelphia, PA 19102
Tel. 215-732-3774
Fax 215-732-4401


The Dangers of the Armenian genocide resolution

Not only does Armenia continue to occupy a large part of Azerbaijan’s territory, much beyond its admittedly legitimate claims to the Nagorno-Karabakh region, but is serves as the cat’s paw of Moscow

http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?idarticle=8456

By Michael Radu


The European Union has told Turkey that in order to become a “true democracy” worth joining it, it must acknowledge responsibility for the 1915 Armenian “genocide,” even if the Republic of Turkey as such did not exist until 1923.

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi has now decided to bring to a vote a non-binding resolution declaring the events of 1915 in Eastern Anatolia a “genocide.” Despite its moralistic claims, this is a dangerous—indeed, in the present circumstances, a highly irresponsible—assault on U.S. national interests in Iraq and elsewhere.

The issue is both clear in terms of whose interests are at stake and complex as to the events themselves. For many Armenians in the U.S. (concentrated in California—Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., was the bill’s sponsor), the issue is hate for everything Turkish and an attempt to rewrite history for emotional fulfillment. For Armenians in Armenia, it is the hoped-for beginning of a process leading to compensation, including financial, from Ankara, and a welcome diversion from their domestic difficulties.

Central to the issue is the definition of events during World War I in the Ottoman Empire. A few key facts are clear. One is that many hundreds of thousands (over a million, according to the Armenian lobby) Armenians in Eastern Anatolia died at that time, of exhaustion and famine as well as killed by Kurdish villagers and Ottoman soldiers. It is also a fact that the Armenian community and its leadership in Anatolia at the time took arms against the Ottomans, in open alliance with the latter’s traditional enemy, Russia. Invading Russian troops and Armenian irregulars, whose occupation of the city of Van was the immediate cause of the deportation of Armenians, also engaged in indiscriminate violence, albeit on a smaller scale, against the mostly Kurdish population of the area; and all that during a war in which the very fate of the Ottoman Empire was being decided.

Whether the Ottoman authorities were guilty of “genocide” in a legal sense is doubtful, since the term itself did not exist in international law until after World War II; in a moral sense, doubts could also be raised, since if “genocide” means intentional destruction of a specific group because of its nationality, religion, race, etc., the survival of the Armenian community of Istanbul, outside the conflict area, is hard to explain. But leaving all this aside, there is one reality that cannot be ignored. That is that whatever happened in 1915 happened under the Ottoman Empire, not under the Turkish Republic, established in 1923. Thus contemporary Turkey is no more responsible for the events of 1915 than Russia is for Stalin’s annexation of the Baltic states or the Federal Republic of Germany for the pre-1914 colonial abuses of the Wilhelmine Empire.

In regional terms, any form of open American support for Armenian claims against Turkey would only encourage Yerevan to persist in its destabilizing role.

Not only does Armenia continue to occupy a large part of Azerbaijan’s territory, much beyond its admittedly legitimate claims to the Nagorno-Karabakh region, but is serves as the cat’s paw of Moscow, the former colonial power in the Caucasus and still the main threat to its stability.

The main problem, however, is still Turkey. Turkish nationalism, on the rise as it is and now with a disturbing new element of anti-Americanism, reaches hysterical levels when the Armenian issue is mentioned. Although most elites may not share it yet, it is unlikely that they could control a wave of anti-Americanism if the U.S. House of Representatives considers the proposed resolution. And it cost the French billions in lost or cancelled contracts with Turkey when the lower house of their parliament passed a resolution last year making it a crime to deny that genocide occurred.

France had no strategic interests in Turkey, nor is Paris known for its traditional pro-Turkish sympathies. The United States, however, has a vital interest in a friendly Turkey, a NATO ally of long standing, Israel’s only friend in the region, and a neighbor of Iran, Syria, and Iraq. The latter is particularly important now.

As it is, Ankara has a legitimate complaint against our main Iraqi allies, the Kurds, for their inaction or implicit tolerance of the terrorist PKK organization, which is safely ensconced in Iraqi Kurdistan. So far, the Turks have demonstrated, most of the time, an admirable patience with PKK terrorist attacks across the border, but a less than friendly Turkish military could not be counted on to continue on that path. Nor could Ankara be expected, if it is insulted by Washington, to stand by if Kirkuk, with its large Turkoman minority, is annexed by the Iraqi Kurds. Are those likely consequences worth paying for the sake of the emotional satisfaction of the Armenian lobby?

The answer is clearly negative, which is why Presidents Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton and now George W. Bush all opposed such attempts. The House leadership does not seem to mind doing damage to our relations with the only democratic and secular Muslim state in the region at a crucial time. Although the intended measure is non-binding, and thus it avoids a presidential veto, that does not make it harmless or intelligent.

Michael Radu, Ph.D., is Co-Chair of FPRI’s Center on Terrorism, Counter-Terrorism, and Homeland Security. He is currently at work on a book on Islamism in Europe.


Gavur

The author (or should I say hired gun!) above is mistaken or is misleading when he states about this new danger of ant-yankee behaviour of Turks.

I still remember the go home yankee slogans and protests towards the 6th fleet in the '60 's when they visited Istanbul.
Besides I don't (nor any sober human being) think a non-binding resolution is what's stirring up the Turks .
Mostly it is the Zionist doctrine we seem to be imposing on the world ,
I mean our global reputation has suffered enough at no gain to us the American public, spare us this one moment of decency under the Zionist sun Mr. Radu.
To me it is obvious that you haven't lifted up many history or geography book's but I would have at least learned some common sense in Romania where you emmigrated from!

Or did the sound of some loose change make you forget?

[Joseph]

11. Halacoglu wants Turkey to cut off relations with all state that have recognized the Armenians Genocide. He Yusuf, good luck to you. I hope your campaign works and Turkey cuts off relations with all of these states. Let me know if I can help you in anyway

Yusuf Halacoglu: Erdogan should demand 19 countries to ground their recognition of ‘Armenian genocide’

[ 02 Apr 2007 19:29 ]

“Prime Minister Rajab Tayyib Erdogan should immediately appeal to 19 countries, which recognized the events happened in 1915 as genocide. These countries should be demanded to ground their decisions to recognize these events as genocide.

The Prime Minister should note if these countries can not give proofs, we will break all relations with them,” chief of Turkish Historical Society, Professor Yusuf Halacoglu told the APA’s Turkey bureau.
“I am sure that none of these countries will be able to reply to us within a month. Then the Prime Minister should hold press conference and clarify Turkey’s relations with these countries,” he said.
The professor suspects that some documents in Armenian archives have disappeared.
“We will soon find out whether our doubts are groundless or not. Foreign scientists want to investigate mass graveyards in Turkey, and the government has already given positive answer. Such a mass graveyard will be opened in Hatay on April 24. Unlike Armenians, we announced that our archives are open. Turkey is ready to pay for opening dashnak (Armenian) archives in Boston,” he said.
Chief of Turkish Historical Society also spoke of the necessity of united struggle against claims on ‘Armenians genocide’.
“Armenia does not recognize Turkey’s borders regulated by Kars treaty of 1921. Why does Armenia demand opening of the neighboring country’s borders which it does not recognize? Border is the main means to exert pressure on Armenia – when 20% of Azerbaijani territories are under occupation. No government in Turkey can bring the issue on opening of borders with Armenia,” he stressed. /APA/

[phantom]

Isn't Halacoglu supposed to be a "historian". How come he seems more like a politician than a historian?

[Joseph]

Isn't Halacoglu supposed to be a "historian". How come he seems more like a politician than a historian?

In addition to being a "historian" and possibly a facist "politician", he might also be a hairdresser which you can see by his always marvelous and emaculate coif. If it was 1977, he could get a part on CHIPS.

[phantom]

In addition to being a "historian" and possibly a facist "politician", he might also be a hairdresser which you can see by his always marvelous and emaculate coif. If it was 1977, he could get a part on CHIPS.

LOL, he definitely gives Donald Trump a run for his money! He should change his name to Halikafa (rug head)!

[Jade]

I haven't had a chance to read all the posts here yet but I wish you wouldn't call the Turks morons (which is the feeling I get when I read the title of the thread)...(I feel upset

[SoSarkissian]

I haven't had a chance to read all the posts here yet but I wish you wouldn't call the Turks morons (which is the feeling I get when I read the title of the thread)...(I feel upset

Jade, you shouldn't feel offended, because these words do not include every single Turk and Kurd. I know literally it means so BUT if you were in our shoes, wouldn't you do the same?

I personally will write Turkish Government, OR, majority of Turks, etc. BUT its hard always to write such long sentences when it comes to comments about Turks, because; 90-95% are against our case and the remaining is divided between neutrals and for our case ...

in conclusion, its easier to say Turks in general than excluding this minority % in every single post (assuming those minority Turks would understand they're excluded) as I assume you already know that you’re excluded …

[Joseph]

12. Warning a country not to recognize the Armenia Genocide and use that ther term after they have already made the proclaimation official

Turkey ‘warned’ Canada and U.S. against using term ‘genocide’ April 24
25.04.2007 14:36 GMT+04:00
/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Turkey warned Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper last week not to issue an April 24 declaration where the incidents of 1915 are defined as genocide. The Canadian Parliament recognized the Armenian Genocide and Harper became one of the few heads of state to use the word “genocide” in his written statement during 2006.

Wary of these genocide claims spreading to other countries including the United States, Turkey is trying hard to block efforts by the Armenian Diaspora in almost every country in the world.

Canadian Prime Minister Harper was warned through diplomatic channels last week that “repeating these claims annually will not help in normalizing Turkey-Armenia relations and will harm Turkish-Canadian bilateral relations as well.” “We hope that the Canadian PM will not repeat this year what he did last year,” a high-level Foreign Ministry official said, the Turkish Daily News reports.

Ankara made the same diplomatic attempt with the United States before April 24 where President George W. Bush also issues a declaration. Turkish officials said Ankara is not expecting Bush to use the word genocide. U.S. presidents prefer to define the incidents in 1915 as a massacre.

Canadian Prime Minister Steven Harper made a statement in connection with the 92nd anniversary of the Armenian Genocide. “Today we recall the horrible losses of 1915 in the Ottoman Empire, particularly the terrible tragedy of the Armenian nation. Last year I reminded, the both chambers of Canadian Parliament adopted a resolution that recognizes the first genocide of the 20th century. This day makes us remember why we should do everything possible to guarantee rule of human rights and democratic freedoms in our times. Today Canadians with Armenian and Turkish descent live side by side and share values of tolerance. We hope Armenia and Turkey will guide themselves with those values in order to develop their relations. Together with you we recall the past and share your hopes for building the future based on peace and mutual respect,” said Steven Harper in his statement.
George W. Bush failed to define the events of 1915 as genocide in his annual April 24 statement.

[Joseph]

13. Please Read the article below:

You see, by speaking to Armenians in Armenian, we can convince Armenians to drop their campaign for Genocide recognition. How ingenious




TURKEY APPOINTS DIPLOMATS WITH ARMENIAN LANGUAGE SKILL TO COUNTRIES WITH STRONG ARMENIAN DIASPORA

Azeri Press Agency, Azerbaijan
May 16 2007

Turkish Foreign Ministry will appoint diplomats who know Armenian
language to diplomatic positions in the countries where Armenian
Diaspora is strong. This step is taken for struggling against the
so-called Armenian genocide claim, Diplomatic sources told the APA
Turkish bureau.

Chief of Foreign Ministry's Armenian Office Suleyman Gokcha has been
appointed to Turkish Embassy in US. Except Gokcha, three more Turkish
diplomats speaking Armenian fluently have been appointed to positions
in Turkish Consulates where Armenian Diaspora is strong. Following
this, Turkish Foreign Ministry will continue to qualify diplomats
speaking Armenian fluently.