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Asia,
Thanks for joining this forum and discussing this issue with us. First, some background so that you understand where I'm coming from in my response to your concerns.
I'm not an expert on this topic, but merely a laymen who has taken a great deal of interest in the topic and has studied it since college. I'm an Armenian from Turkey who grew up in the United States. I speak Turkish and Armenian fluently, and I have relatives who are Turkish, such as uncles, aunts and cousins. I also have friends who are Turkish. I've read many books and articles, both scholarly and news oriented, as well as many websites and onlinne information regarding the Armenian Genocide. I've had online discussions with Armenians, Turks, Americans, Europeans (Dutch, British, Greek, Swedish, and German), Arabs, Persians, Russians and Jews about this topic. Most people other than Turks, whether they have limited knowledge or have studied the topic extensively, accept the fact that what happened was a Genocide. Most Turkish people still deny it. This obviously is not news to anyone here I'm sure.
Having said that, I beleive that far less information is required than most deniers would have us believe in order to determine that this was a Genocide. For a laymen, I believe I've studied the issue extensively, yet it always comes down to the following facts, which are known to everyone, even us novices. These facts are not in dispute, even by most diehard denialists:
1. Until 1915, Anatolia/Asia Minor was the home of more than half the world's Armenian population who had lived on those lands for not just a few generations, but more than 2 1/2 millenia.
2. By 1923, there were almost no Armenians at all left in Anatolia, and virtually the only Armenians left living within the new Republic of Turkey were about 100,000 in Istanbul.
3. The Young Turks ordered the deportations, not just of revolutionary or rebellious Armenians, but all Armenians including women, children and elderly. Armenians from all four corners of Anatolia were targeted, not just those on the Russian front, which is why by 1923 only 100,000 Armenians were left in all of modern day Turkey.
4. The Young Turks first eliminated most of the Armenian men by putting them in labor battalions and then killing those ones who survived the labor battalions or just killing them right away. Thus, most of the men were eliminated even before the deportations.
5. The "deportees" were deported mostly on foot for hundreds of miles with little food, water or shelter, through circuitous routes that made no sense unless the intent was exhausting them to death.
6. These people were deported to locations in the desserts of present-day Syria where there was nothing to sustain life, and no provisions had been made to sustain their life once they got there (no food, no clean water, no shelter, no clothing).
Full stop.
I believe that's all you need to know in order to conclude beyond reasonable doubt that the Young Turks' knew or should have known that their actions would lead to the extermination of the Armenian population of Anatolia. Either that, or you have to conclude that the Young Turk leaders, many of whom became the founders of the Republic of Turkey, were so utterly stupid and incompetent that they could not foresee that their actions would lead to the results that we see in 1923, the elimination of virtually the entire Armenian population of Anatolia.
A smoking gun letter from Talaat to Enver saying "Let's kill all Armenians" is not necessary to prove intent. Circumstancial evidence can just as well prove intent, and in the case of the Armenian Genocide, to say that such evidence is abundant would be a gross understatement. If a smoking gun "document" was necessary to prove intent, then today it would be impossible to conclude that even the Holocaust was a Genocide, and I think 1.5 and Joseph have done a good job making that point already.
Also, I don't think we Armenians are blaming you or any Turk from your generation or even your parent's generation for this crime. But if you say it didn't happen, then you are obviously on the side of the perpetrators of the crime, and not on the side of the righteous Turks, Kurds, Greeks, Arabs, and Assyrians who saved Armenian lives at their own peril. Thus, we can never blame you for perpetrating the crime, but you are certainly drawing blame upon yourself if you continue to perpetuate its denial.
Thanks for joining this forum and discussing this issue with us. First, some background so that you understand where I'm coming from in my response to your concerns.
I'm not an expert on this topic, but merely a laymen who has taken a great deal of interest in the topic and has studied it since college. I'm an Armenian from Turkey who grew up in the United States. I speak Turkish and Armenian fluently, and I have relatives who are Turkish, such as uncles, aunts and cousins. I also have friends who are Turkish. I've read many books and articles, both scholarly and news oriented, as well as many websites and onlinne information regarding the Armenian Genocide. I've had online discussions with Armenians, Turks, Americans, Europeans (Dutch, British, Greek, Swedish, and German), Arabs, Persians, Russians and Jews about this topic. Most people other than Turks, whether they have limited knowledge or have studied the topic extensively, accept the fact that what happened was a Genocide. Most Turkish people still deny it. This obviously is not news to anyone here I'm sure.
Having said that, I beleive that far less information is required than most deniers would have us believe in order to determine that this was a Genocide. For a laymen, I believe I've studied the issue extensively, yet it always comes down to the following facts, which are known to everyone, even us novices. These facts are not in dispute, even by most diehard denialists:
1. Until 1915, Anatolia/Asia Minor was the home of more than half the world's Armenian population who had lived on those lands for not just a few generations, but more than 2 1/2 millenia.
2. By 1923, there were almost no Armenians at all left in Anatolia, and virtually the only Armenians left living within the new Republic of Turkey were about 100,000 in Istanbul.
3. The Young Turks ordered the deportations, not just of revolutionary or rebellious Armenians, but all Armenians including women, children and elderly. Armenians from all four corners of Anatolia were targeted, not just those on the Russian front, which is why by 1923 only 100,000 Armenians were left in all of modern day Turkey.
4. The Young Turks first eliminated most of the Armenian men by putting them in labor battalions and then killing those ones who survived the labor battalions or just killing them right away. Thus, most of the men were eliminated even before the deportations.
5. The "deportees" were deported mostly on foot for hundreds of miles with little food, water or shelter, through circuitous routes that made no sense unless the intent was exhausting them to death.
6. These people were deported to locations in the desserts of present-day Syria where there was nothing to sustain life, and no provisions had been made to sustain their life once they got there (no food, no clean water, no shelter, no clothing).
Full stop.
I believe that's all you need to know in order to conclude beyond reasonable doubt that the Young Turks' knew or should have known that their actions would lead to the extermination of the Armenian population of Anatolia. Either that, or you have to conclude that the Young Turk leaders, many of whom became the founders of the Republic of Turkey, were so utterly stupid and incompetent that they could not foresee that their actions would lead to the results that we see in 1923, the elimination of virtually the entire Armenian population of Anatolia.
A smoking gun letter from Talaat to Enver saying "Let's kill all Armenians" is not necessary to prove intent. Circumstancial evidence can just as well prove intent, and in the case of the Armenian Genocide, to say that such evidence is abundant would be a gross understatement. If a smoking gun "document" was necessary to prove intent, then today it would be impossible to conclude that even the Holocaust was a Genocide, and I think 1.5 and Joseph have done a good job making that point already.
Also, I don't think we Armenians are blaming you or any Turk from your generation or even your parent's generation for this crime. But if you say it didn't happen, then you are obviously on the side of the perpetrators of the crime, and not on the side of the righteous Turks, Kurds, Greeks, Arabs, and Assyrians who saved Armenian lives at their own peril. Thus, we can never blame you for perpetrating the crime, but you are certainly drawing blame upon yourself if you continue to perpetuate its denial.
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