Let's rewind the movie

[lal]

Lets assume that turkey didnt have a leader like Ataturk and didnt win its independence war. greeks and armenians and english and france and italian **or simply many kinds of evil christians**invaded anatolia. and than greeks and armenians **so called gavurlar**who as people lived under jeza laws and colonised for centuries by turks, took the revange by genociding turks this time.

and we turks left anatolia walking on foot,left our history,culture,money,golds, houses ,lands ,animals behind .most of us died on the road,some of us are simply killed by masses, some women,young girls are raped infront of husbands,fathers,children stolen. we died on the road because of hunger. and few of us menage to come to foreign lands leaving the places we were thousand years, for ever.

only then we can understand an armenian. and if we feel nothing about this,this means we are either not a human . or maybe too much islamist,or nationalist. ı cant say racist,because we are the same people.

regards

lal

[phantom]

Lal,

What about all the Turks that Armenians killed? Are they not human? Why should a Turk feel anything but contempt for an Armenian even today when there are none left in Anatolia since Armenians supposedly also killed many Turks?

This is the argument we have heard here many times.

One thing also I want to note about your comment. In order to make the reversal more close to what actually happened, you would need to say not that Turks left Anatolia willy nilly to various places, but that they were driven and marched out to specific destinations in the deserts of Der Zor where there were no preparations made to sustain life. In other words, they were not allowed to leave the Ottoman Empire, which is why it is wrong when people call it a "deportation". They were specifically marched to predetermined destinations within the deserts of the Ottoman Empire that had nothing there that could sustain lives (no food, no water, no shelter, and nothing nearby to provide these necessities). To me, that's one of the strongest pieces of evidence showing the CUP's "intent" to kill these people. It wasn't like the Japanese internments in America, where buildings with heat and water and schools were built for the internees before and after they got to the camps.

[lal]

Lal,

What about all the Turks that Armenians killed? Are they not human? Why should a Turk feel anything but contempt for an Armenian even today when there are none left in Anatolia since Armenians supposedly also killed many Turks?

This is the argument we have heard here many times.

One thing also I want to note about your comment. In order to make the reversal more close to what actually happened, you would need to say not that Turks left Anatolia willy nilly to various places, but that they were driven and marched out to specific destinations in the deserts of Der Zor where there were no preparations made to sustain life. In other words, they were not allowed to leave the Ottoman Empire, which is why it is wrong when people call it a "deportation". They were specifically marched to predetermined destinations within the deserts of the Ottoman Empire that had nothing there that could sustain lives (no food, no water, no shelter, and nothing nearby to provide these necessities). To me, that's one of the strongest pieces of evidence showing the CUP's "intent" to kill these people. It wasn't like the Japanese internments in America, where buildings with heat and water and schools were built for the internees before and after they got to the camps.

even if we assume that ,armenians revolted and killed thousands of turks in the beginning as turkish official stand is, turks didnt have the right to send elders,children and women to unknown destinations to death,steal their properties,lands and money and erase armenian culture totally from anatolia. wars are done between men.you dont touch the others .you win and go on living together under your conditions.

But ı want to emphasis on something else. turks seriously hated greeks very much for tens of years.we had so high tensions that ,we could any time invade their islands just next to our main land.the danger was not comparable to armenian turkish one of today.

than a miracle happened.earthquake hit western turkey. greeks were the first people came to help us. they sent money,they came for recovery. this was not a planned,artificial reaction of their government.it was totally very humane of greek people. turkish people suddenly changed. today there are alots of conflicts between us ,but there is 0 possibility of a war. while polls tell that only 10% greeks favor turks,now 55% Turks favor greeks.we apreciated their very noble behaviour very much as a country totally.

ı think we need another miracle ,unexpected move ,to change the ongoing hatred between armenians and turks.

lal

[lal]

ı also want to add one more thing in defense of armenian theisis is that the remaining armenians in turkey are also forced out by many methods used the state of turkey. this is something that no turk can deny.

my mother tells me that our neighbourhood was full of armenians and greeks in the past . in her house she has a very big mirror with antique frame ,left by an armenian neighbour leaving turkey.

ı also know one man who became a businessmen after his armenian boss suddenly left turkey ,long years ago,with his family,selling everything he has, for very little money.


if these people couldnt be first class citizens in so called secular,modern turkey,and sent away by better tactics, who can believe that they were treated correctly in corrupt ottoman period.

[bell-the-cat]

ı also want to add one more thing in defense of armenian theisis is that the remaining armenians in turkey are also forced out by many methods used the state of turkey. this is something that no turk can deny.

But it is something that Armenians are mostly silent about. Don't know why. Maybe it doesn't fit into their overly simplisitic "1915 genocide" message intended for politicians.

I was in Boston in November and happened to talk to a man who was at an Armenian school in Istanbul in the 30s and 40s and remembers a fellow Armenian classmate simply vanishing - one day he was in class, next day he was gone and nobody knew where. His classmate reappeared several months later, looking half starved - without warning he had been deported to Ashkale but had managed to return to Istanbul somehow.
He also said that Armenians were mostly disinterested in his reminiscances from that period - but he had been interviewed once by a Turkish researcher on the tax law.

I would like to find out more about the 1920s and 30s period - that was when the surviving Armenian population of central Anatolia was got rid of (mostly by forced expulsion to Syria, I think).

[phantom]

But it is something that Armenians are mostly silent about. Don't know why. Maybe it doesn't fit into their overly simplisitic "1915 genocide" message intended for politicians.

Or maybe the Istanbul Armenians are conditioned to let bygones be bygones and to "look to the future" instead of the past like their fellow Turks. Have you ever considered that! God you bug!

[chinchilla]

I would like to find out more about the 1920s and 30s period - that was when the surviving Armenian population of central Anatolia was got rid of (mostly by forced expulsion to Syria, I think).

In the summer of 1921, many Armenians in Cilicia were exiled.

[Joseph]

But it is something that Armenians are mostly silent about. Don't know why. Maybe it doesn't fit into their overly simplisitic "1915 genocide" message intended for politicians.

I was in Boston in November and happened to talk to a man who was at an Armenian school in Istanbul in the 30s and 40s and remembers a fellow Armenian classmate simply vanishing - one day he was in class, next day he was gone and nobody knew where. His classmate reappeared several months later, looking half starved - without warning he had been deported to Ashkale but had managed to return to Istanbul somehow.
He also said that Armenians were mostly disinterested in his reminiscances from that period - but he had been interviewed once by a Turkish researcher on the tax law.

I would like to find out more about the 1920s and 30s period - that was when the surviving Armenian population of central Anatolia was got rid of (mostly by forced expulsion to Syria, I think).

I find the whole period during WWII fascinating, the Vagik Verglisi -sp.
Until 1942 there were upwards to 300,000 Armenians and even more Greeks in and around Istanbul. Many were sent to work camps and many finally said the hell with it and got out.

Even today, very few Armenians know about this.

[Joseph]

I find the whole period during WWII fascinating, the Vagik Verglisi -sp.
Until 1942 there were upwards to 300,000 Armenians and even more Greeks in and around Istanbul. Many were sent to work camps and many finally said the hell with it and got out.

Even today, very few Armenians know about this.

http://www.armeniangenocide.com/showthread.php?t=2369&highlight=wealth

[lal]

I find the whole period during WWII fascinating, the Vagik Verglisi -sp.
Until 1942 there were upwards to 300,000 Armenians and even more Greeks in and around Istanbul. Many were sent to work camps and many finally said the hell with it and got out.

Even today, very few Armenians know about this.

the acknowlegement of armenian genocide is very important for me.if nothing, for moral reasons. but long time has passed over it and it was during ottoman period. so unlike myself, many turks wont be sensitive about this issue. also our state has a great allergy to this and misinforming its people.

many turks will explain the situation like this, life was like that 100 years ago. there were no human rights in those days.they killed and we killed.so dont judge turks with the standards of 21th century.

however,turks are directly responsible for the things done to christians to make them leave turkey during the Turkish republic period ,so clearly, that noone can deny this,even a Turkish nationalist . those abnormal taxes for nonchristians was nothing but a highest degree of racizm. also in september 6-7 1955 is the most ashamed day of turks , when all nonmuslims including the jews were attacked and beaten by turks ,their shops were plunderaged .

turkish state refuses the genocide because they carried out the project until today. even today trying to finish the job by sending out the remaining few left,100 or so thousand of christians.thats why they still kill them. to scare the rest and make them leave totally .so that we can all be pure islamists.

now, ı dont know the exact reason of this. may be turks leading the state in the past,swore not to forgive and not to live with christians together after 1900s, loosing all the lands and half of its population,about 8 million.and today that promise is still valid.

or maybe, turks are very much scared that christianity is still a very great threat for turkey that, country can any time seperate into many small ethnic countries just like former yugoslavia.

or maybe it is assumed a great victory to destroy all christian culture out of anatolia like cleaning the germs. and people who are proud of this can never say sorry for nothing.

ı must note that,every single turk that ı have talked in turkey who has met an armenian in turkey,told me that he-she liked them very much.
armenians ,individually are very lively people. we like them individually, but we cant say sorry. and we still dont want them here.strange.


there is a paradox here as anyone can note.

turks want to be in eu ,but dont want any christians in turkey,

turks want peace with armenians ,but want them to accept that genocide was their fault,

turks claim that they are seculars,but only muslims and only sunni muslims are welcomed in this secular system.

turks claim that ,there is human rights and democracy in turkey but never feel sorry for very very very discriminative tax rates for nonmuslims in the past.

turks claim that there is property rights in turkey ,but again not for nonmuslims.

turks claim that men and women are equal and acrtually all citizens are equal. ı laugh this with my beautiful ass....

turks want modern new mosques everywhere in west,they want to hear ezan loud,they want to dress and walk around strangely islamist way,without learning the language of the country they live in,they want to walk with turkish flags on the streets of foreign countries, they want to merry good muslim ,clean,girls from home villages of turkey.

but no churches are allowed to be repaired in turkey,let the new ones to be built, no gay bars are allowed and enough ı dont want to write more

and turks wonder,why no western people likes us,why we are not wanted, west is racist, oh my Allah

lal.