The real weakness of turks

[chinchilla]

She got it about right. Except for the "armenians let themselves to be used by some people" bit. That's an old Turkish myth: Armenians let themselves be used in the 19th century by the European Powers, Armenians let themselves be used in WW1 by the Russians, Armenians let themselves be used in the 1970s by the Soviet Union, and so on.

Last year (or was it the year before??) they were saying France...

[lal]

Last year (or was it the year before??) they were saying France...

well, this is a good example. in countries like france,germany or austria, people and governments are so much frustrated by the idea that turks will join to the eu club, that ,they can use anything to prevent this.

eu promised turkey to take her in the club ,if turks can fit all eu norms. but now ,they are searching ways to say no.

and armenians are used to find reasons to say no to turks. not that they care about history. their ancestors are dirtier than turks. they never admit their genicides in algeria and africa.

armenians made the genocide known worldwide. and this is a great success. but ı repeat,ı dont believe that armenians are able to harm turkey in no ways. on the contrary, forcing turks to accept the genocide is actually helping turkey to become a democratic country.

the reality is that,denial of armenian genocide is a good sign of turkey's islamist,militarist,antidemocratic nature.

unless we improve and recover from islam illness**which ı have no hope,virus is invaded all the body now**, we will never accept the genocide and feel sorrow for the history.

ı know , ım too realist.

Lal

[Flora Korkis]

lal - I think the term you wanted to use there was "idealist."

[Gavur]

She got it about right.

As a non-Armenian, if you say so.But as a Armenian I know! The misconception of Turks (purposley encouraged by the state) is we the diaspora are trying to harm Turkey that is absolutely incorrect.

[1.5 million]

forcing turks to accept the genocide is actually helping turkey to become a democratic country.

the reality is that,denial of armenian genocide is a good sign of turkey's islamist,militarist,antidemocratic nature.

Exactly - and don't think that we are ignorant of this.

And please evaluate this in light of your statment that Armenian Diaspora are seeking to harm Turkey.

[Steph]

Exactly - and don't think that we are ignorant of this.

And please evaluate this in light of your statment that Armenian Diaspora are seeking to harm Turkey.

I'm confused by Lal's posts in that they contain a fair amount of inaccurate accusations against Armenians, directly from the turkish state and denialists.
She then states that she distrusts all (or most) state generated information and more or less adores Armenians.

Whilst I understand Lal can only access information dictated by her state's education system, she could take time to research the Genocide on the net.

I have the feeling that Lal gets a kick out of spouting denialist claims on this forum. Hopefully I'm wrong, but that's my gut feeling.

[lal]

I'm confused by Lal's posts in that they contain a fair amount of inaccurate accusations against Armenians, directly from the turkish state and denialists.
She then states that she distrusts all (or most) state generated information and more or less adores Armenians.

Whilst I understand Lal can only access information dictated by her state's education system, she could take time to research the Genocide on the net.

I have the feeling that Lal gets a kick out of spouting denialist claims on this forum. Hopefully I'm wrong, but that's my gut feeling.

ı dont want to repeat my personal opinions one more time. my position is very clear. but in turkey **and probably in the world**,there are very few people like me, deeply liberal,against all religons,nationalizm and even to borders.since there is no hope that my way can be a majority in near future in no place on earth,ı am trying to think the way majority behaves.

when ı think that way,ı see that, turks and AR armenians and dispora armenians must have real reasons to change their positions.

ı dont think turkey will change her position if she stays out of eu***which is a 99,99% possibility**

this means unless ,turkey is pushed into eu project someway, turks will stay very nationalistic,very islamic and very militarist for ever. turkey will never open the borders with armenia ,never accept the genocide.

when turkey is out of eu, no matter how many countries accept the genocide legally ,this will not affect turkeys attitude a bit.

so my question is this,why does diaspora armenians ,especially the ones in france are working so hard to keep turkey out of eu. is that because they never really want turkey to face her past.

probably they think that ,real target is to destroy turkey totally as a country and get the eastern turkey lands back etc.

ı wonder which one is more realistic.

this is why ,although ı think that armenian genocide is real ,ı dont consider most diaspora armenians close to myself.

ı prefer very deeply the peacefull methods.

lal

[Steph]

but in turkey **and probably in the world**,there are very few people like me, deeply liberal,against all religons,nationalizm and even to borders.since there is no hope that my way can be a majority in near future in no place on earth,ı am trying to think the way majority behaves.

ı dont think turkey will change her position if she stays out of eu***which is a 99,99% possibility**

this means unless ,turkey is pushed into eu project someway, turks will stay very nationalistic,very islamic and very militarist for ever. turkey will never open the borders with armenia ,never accept the genocide.

probably they think that ,real target is to destroy turkey totally as a country and get the eastern turkey lands back etc.

lal

Lal,

you are re-stating a common turkish "blackmail" thread as regards potential membership of the EU. ie." Let us in or we'll never recognise the Genocide, we'll become more islamic etc. etc."

The reality is that turkish membership of the EU is a non-subject for Europeans. It's simply not interesting.
The only people discussing that are the MEPs in Strasburg. Ask most Europeans who their MEP is and they won't know, including myself.

The typical European, if asked, would probably disagree with turkey's admission to the EU simply because turkey is not generally considered to be European.

Secondly, you continually refer to your "internationalism", a world without borders and nationalities but in the same posts refer to your fear of Armenian and European plans to dismember turkey. Surely that would be in line with your utopia?

turkish rulers, from ottomans to present day, have used the smokescreen of dismemberment of the ottoman empire and/or return of Eastern Armenia, Thrace etc. as a mortar to bind the turkish masses.
You obviously still share these views.

[Steph]

so my question is this,why does diaspora armenians ,especially the ones in france are working so hard to keep turkey out of eu. is that because they never really want turkey to face her past.

lal

everyone on this forum, hopefully, wants turkey to face her past unconditionally.

Should the EU negotiate Japan's entry provided that Japan makes full and total admission, recognition and restitution of her crimes in Manchuria, Korea and China?

[lal]

Lal,

you are re-stating a common turkish "blackmail" thread as regards potential membership of the EU. ie." Let us in or we'll never recognise the Genocide, we'll become more islamic etc. etc."

The reality is that turkish membership of the EU is a non-subject for Europeans. It's simply not interesting.
The only people discussing that are the MEPs in Strasburg. Ask most Europeans who their MEP is and they won't know, including myself.

The typical European, if asked, would probably disagree with turkey's admission to the EU simply because turkey is not generally considered to be European.

Secondly, you continually refer to your "internationalism", a world without borders and nationalities but in the same posts refer to your fear of Armenian and European plans to dismember turkey. Surely that would be in line with your utopia?

turkish rulers, from ottomans to present day, have used the smokescreen of dismemberment of the ottoman empire and/or return of Eastern Armenia, Thrace etc. as a mortar to bind the turkish masses.
You obviously still share these views.

ı dont think that it is a blackmail. it is the sad truth. you want turks to accept the genocide unconditionally. but how and why should that be. only a target of eu membership can bring that and nothing else.


ı also know that europeans are not interested about turkeys membership at all. that is why ı say %99,99 we have no chance for that.if you read me carefully ,ı am not talking about being a member there. ı am talking about eu target. even this much can be enough to socially change turkey. we cant do it ourselves.

and my individual world view is not important. you may believe whichever way you wish to. this is not the place to satisfy my hidden desires. ı am trying to be as honest as ı can be.but not so important.

may be ı only want this to be solved to be in eu as a turk. may be this is my hidden agenda.

but even so,if ı was the ruling person of turkey,ı certainly would prepare turks for the acceptence of recognising the genocide.