The real weakness of turks

[phantom]

Diaspora Armenians are not trying to hurt Turkey. That is not the goal. The goal is to get Turkey to acknowledge the crime that was committed. If it does so, then why should we object to its entry into the EU? A democratic Turkey is good for Armenia and Armenians everywhere. But a Turkey that refuses to accept its past and continues to view Armenians as a parasitic people as a consequence, is not good for Armenia or Armenians anywhere. Moreover, such a Turkey also tends to be undemocratic, because it uses undemocratic means to suppress information on this and other topics.

[Steph]

ı dont think that it is a blackmail. it is the sad truth. you want turks to accept the genocide unconditionally. but how and why should that be. only a target of eu membership can bring that and nothing else.

Why the link between EU membership and Genocide Recognition?

Should the criminal be rewarded for admitting his crimes?

How many EU states have recognised the Genocide?

turkey needs to recognise, admit and move towards restitution.

[Steph]

Diaspora Armenians are not trying to hurt Turkey. That is not the goal. The goal is to get Turkey to acknowledge the crime that was committed. If it does so, then why should we object to its entry into the EU? A democratic Turkey is good for Armenia and Armenians everywhere. But a Turkey that refuses to accept its past and continues to view Armenians as a parasitic people as a consequence, is not good for Armenia or Armenians anywhere. Moreover, such a Turkey also tends to be undemocratic, because it uses undemocratic means to suppress information on this and other topics.

Again Phantom, what link between Recognition and EU membership?

I think if there was ever a Europe-wide referendum on turkey's entry to the EU that the result would be a resounding "NO".

Maybe if turkey acknowledges the crimes committed then why should we object to it's entry into the US of A as the 51st state?

[lal]

Diaspora Armenians are not trying to hurt Turkey. That is not the goal. The goal is to get Turkey to acknowledge the crime that was committed. If it does so, then why should we object to its entry into the EU? A democratic Turkey is good for Armenia and Armenians everywhere. But a Turkey that refuses to accept its past and continues to view Armenians as a parasitic people as a consequence, is not good for Armenia or Armenians anywhere. Moreover, such a Turkey also tends to be undemocratic, because it uses undemocratic means to suppress information on this and other topics.

can you affect iran or saudi arabia or libya or sudan about human rights violations. they do all kinds of it everyday. they would laugh at you,if you tell them that they made genocides 100 years ago.

if turkey becomes a country like that, how can you harm turkey about 100 years agos crimes,when the same crimes even will openly go on today to various people.

in 1980 s bulgaria was the most antidemocratic and backward country of europe. jivkov ,leader of bulgaria,deported hundred of thousands of bulgarian turks out to turkey,changed their names.

after eu promised to take bulgaria into eu, bulgarias politics dramaticly changed. today all turks returned back to bulgaria.they are free and happy bulgarian citizens. they have a party. they are partners in the government.

if eu told bulgarians ,first stop the violance against turks,than we may think about taking you in eu,they wouldnt be able to do this.

this is the key that you cant understand.

if armenians cries ,make echoes worldwide,that is because turkey is a semi democratic country,not civilised, but not completely out of the civilization yet.

the problem is this. you consider acceptence of turkey to eu as a reward,must be given only after turkey accepts the genocide.

and ı say ,turkey is about to fall down the hill, to islamizmist middle eastern hell. eu is about to cut all the last remaining thin ties with turkey.

ı tell you than what will happen. there will be 0 chance for any kind of peace among us for an unknown number of centuries. turkey will even demand armenia to apologise for the revolts.people like ahmet altan or like me will be silenced for ever.


if you think that an islamist ,more backward turkey is a better alternative for armenians goal, than good luck to you.

lal

[hitite]

in 1980 s bulgaria was the most antidemocratic and backward country of europe. jivkov ,leader of bulgaria,deported hundred of thousands of bulgarian turks out to turkey,changed their names.

after eu promised to take bulgaria into eu, bulgarias politics dramaticly changed. today all turks returned back to bulgaria.they are free and happy bulgarian citizens. they have a party. they are partners in the government.

if eu told bulgarians ,first stop the violance against turks,than we may think about taking you in eu,they wouldnt be able to do this.

All my Grandparents and my mother were born in Bulgaria. I am a descendant of the "muhacir"s that came in the early 20th century.

Some of the 80's deportees have gone back but 99% of them are still here. But many of them travelled back to Bulgaria to get Bulgarian citizenship and passports since many were still registered just before EU accsesion so they could in a way become EU citizens. But something wierd happened:

My best friends girl friends name is Birgul. She was born in Bulgaria and came to Turkey in the eightees. She went back to Bulgaria to get citizenship and she had to change her name to MAIA CHRISTOVA !!!! They would not allow her to use her original name. This happened in 2006 !!!. This happened to all the Turks that went back. So Bulgarian politics did not change when the EU promise was made.

The EU has some pretty strict standards huh ????

[Steph]

The EU has some pretty strict standards huh ????

The EU has no standards. I fail to understand the preoccupation with entry into this diluted, big beyond it's use entity. As far as I can see the EU simply allows the Germans and French to have the empires which they had and then lost.
In other words, the EU is the ill-begotten bastard child of Napolean and Hitler.

[1.5 million]

lal -

your recent protestations regarding Armenians' demand for Genocide recognition make me think your stated position of recognizing it rather hollow. It is obvious you have not a clue about which you speak. If you cannot comprehend that what was done to Armenians by the Ottoman Turks was one of the most henious acts of modern history (unequaled by all but one other "total" genocide of the century) - that deserves unconditional recognition/acknowledgement entirely independent of any other crimes commited by other peoples at other times and as well independent and deserving of special recognition even in light of any issue of various Turkish suffering (which BTW I am very much in support of recognizing - both as entirely seperate issues and as they deserve to be considered in terms of linkage with the history of the period prior to and surounding the Armenian Genocide) - if you cannot comprehend this - and it seems very clear that you do not - then I suggest you spend some time learning the history and the true magnitude of Armenian suffering and Turkish predation - before you start reaching conclusions and making pronoucements concerning what postions Armenians should hold and how they should go about expressing themselves on these matters.

[bell-the-cat]

in 1980 s bulgaria was the most antidemocratic and backward country of europe. jivkov ,leader of bulgaria,deported hundred of thousands of bulgarian turks out to turkey,changed their names.

The way I remember it, they were not deported but left due to repressions of the Turkish language and schools and culture. And they all went back rather quickly, within a year or so. I remember all the university dormitories and all the cheap hotels in eastern Turkey were full of them. A lot were sent to Erzurum where, according to a Kurdish inhabitant I talked to there at the time, they spoke better Turkish than the locals. At another hotel in Tatvan (the Karahan?), they took over most of the building. (Given that that hotel was renowned fo its tank-sized xxxxroaches, it's not surprising they soon went back. )

[bell-the-cat]

the problem is this. you consider acceptence of turkey to eu as a reward,must be given only after turkey accepts the genocide.

Actually, the Reublic of Armenia supports Turkey's membership and its support doesn't come with geocide-recognition conditions. Bu it does expect Turkey to open the border, as does the EU. And plenty of diaspora Armenians hold the same view, that Turkish membership of the EU would be good for Armenia regardless of what (or any) reforms happen in Turkey. It's only on the internet that you see 100% fanatics.

[phantom]

can you affect iran or saudi arabia or libya or sudan about human rights violations. they do all kinds of it everyday. they would laugh at you,if you tell them that they made genocides 100 years ago.

if turkey becomes a country like that, how can you harm turkey about 100 years agos crimes,when the same crimes even will openly go on today to various people.

in 1980 s bulgaria was the most antidemocratic and backward country of europe. jivkov ,leader of bulgaria,deported hundred of thousands of bulgarian turks out to turkey,changed their names.

after eu promised to take bulgaria into eu, bulgarias politics dramaticly changed. today all turks returned back to bulgaria.they are free and happy bulgarian citizens. they have a party. they are partners in the government.

if eu told bulgarians ,first stop the violance against turks,than we may think about taking you in eu,they wouldnt be able to do this.

this is the key that you cant understand.

if armenians cries ,make echoes worldwide,that is because turkey is a semi democratic country,not civilised, but not completely out of the civilization yet.

the problem is this. you consider acceptence of turkey to eu as a reward,must be given only after turkey accepts the genocide.

and ı say ,turkey is about to fall down the hill, to islamizmist middle eastern hell. eu is about to cut all the last remaining thin ties with turkey.

ı tell you than what will happen. there will be 0 chance for any kind of peace among us for an unknown number of centuries. turkey will even demand armenia to apologise for the revolts.people like ahmet altan or like me will be silenced for ever.


if you think that an islamist ,more backward turkey is a better alternative for armenians goal, than good luck to you.

lal

You're preaching to the choir. I support Turkey's entry into the EU, and so does Armenia, and so do most diaspora Armenians.