Hello I am new here

[phantom]

Bell,

I will not argue with you over religion. That would be ridiculous. But it is also ridiculous to argue that religion did not play a major role in the survival of the Armenian people over the centuries of conquest, destruction, and rebuilding that Armenians have lived through during their existence on this Earth.

To my mind, there are three main contributing factors to continued Armenian existence: (1) distinct language; (2) distinct alphabet; and (3) distinct religion (as compared to surrounding forces and peoples). I don't know what the weight of each of those factors is, but I know they all contributed.

[Jade]

Welcome Nick! I'm sure you have much to add to our forum...I'm looking forward to your posts...
I have a theory about religion that may or may not apply to the Armenian case and that is that if a religion has been in a region for a very long time, the traditions and rituals become so interlinked with each other that the religion becomes part of the culture. And for me culture is the mix of all these factors that define a race or rather a certain group of peoples living in the same area. Research tells me that the Armenians were the first country(?) to have taken the Christian religion as their main religion...Therefore, Christianity is so embedded within you, your culture etc. that in a way it does define you...

[Helen]

Well said, Jade...

Welcome, Nick...

[SoSarkissian]

I am part Armenian and part Russian with some Italian and British as well. As a cousin visiting from Moscow once remarked, "I make a good xxxxtail."

xxxxtail or not, ... you are from a survivor family and you still have something in you for the Armenian Genocide; ... these 2 fact points would be enough to still nameTAG you as an Armenian.

Welcome aboard,
remember!! activity is the key secret of this forum

[Jade]

Welcome aboard,
remember!! activity is the key secret of this forum

Indeed...SoSarkissian I believe you are fairly new too yet you've already got the key=))
As for my earlier post, can we all come to an agreement about culture=religion (atleast in some cases, I believe Armenia being one) ??? Remember, I am not a religious person at all, far from it, yet I do admit that in a way Islam has become part of Turkey's culture...Etc...As is the case with Armenia

[1.5 million]

I will not argue with you over religion. That would be ridiculous.

Why is it that arguing over religion is considered to be taboo. Considering all of the hurt religion has done through the ages, is doing now and will likely do in the future I think it is well past time to disucuss religion and it is well past time for unbelievers to take believers to task for the damage that they have done and are doing to our world and our species.

But it is also ridiculous to argue that religion did not play a major role in the survival of the Armenian people over the centuries of conquest, destruction, and rebuilding that Armenians have lived through during their existence on this Earth.

I don't at all disagree with this point or disagree that one must understand the central role of Christianity to Armenian culture during this period (since 301)...and how Armenians clinging to their national religion with such fervor is part of what has kept them Armenian during these times.

To my mind, there are three main contributing factors to continued Armenian existence: (1) distinct language; (2) distinct alphabet; and (3) distinct religion (as compared to surrounding forces and peoples). I don't know what the weight of each of those factors is, but I know they all contributed.

Obviously these are all central elements to culture. There are other factors as well. The fact that Armenians did/do not require a central authority or national designation in order to continue to view themselves as "Armenian" has been another key in our ability to survive as a group where others have faded. The centrality of the Armenian family - even beyond that of most other peoples - as of course all have this - but the degree to which the Armenian family unit shapes perceptions and personalities and is established as the moral authority etc - has helped Armenians greatly in maintaining identity beyond that national concept of such. And perhaps only Armenians - who have lived through/and continue to live through such can appreciate my point here - how and why family authority is so much stronger for Armenians then nearly any other people and how such builds and strengthens our character and makes us more resitant to outside influences (and thus we have battled against such and refused to give up our beliefs and personas) etc

Religion is still bad (and false) and we must move beyond it if we are to survive as a species. Our history (our strength of family) will ensure our cohesion as much as one can hope for - and we can maintian (aspects of) our culture and clutural practices without maintining belief (for instance look at how we still include elements of our pre-christain traditions in our culture...conciensly or not). (but if we are to say - let us not change - let us always be as we are now - well that would be like being the Amish. Is that OK with you? - maybe...but...yeah meanwhile the world will indeed pass us by...) However now that the world is integrated to the level that it is and is being homoginized as a result (for better or worse) and now that time itself is moving expotentially quicker and continues to accelerate - it is only ignorance of these things that keeps us from understanding that we are only a transitional form. All that we know and accept will soon (much sooner then you can imagine) be a quiant vestage of the past. We are evolving (quickly...can't you see it?) and everything will change. As such we have to learn to let go of certain things. Hopefully (and it is only hope...as I am not [yet? lol] in control...) we will have the wisdom to drop all/most of the bad and keep the good (as much as is [in]humanly possible) - but there is no guarrentee and we do face an uncertain (and in many respects troubling...ie you cannot imagine the potential abuses and possible dehumanization that might be possible) future. It is clear however that religion - in all of its forms - as such - faith based belief itself - is an extremely harmful thing for us at this time. It has long ago past its usefulness (and in fact it has always been a vector for human exploitation and manipulation). Only now it threatens our very survival as a species itself. It is a vestage of our childhood (as a species) that we are moving beyond - out of our infancy as intelligent evolved beings. We just have to emotionally accept that we are physical beings in organic bodies and that each of us will eventually die. One day we may craft bio-mehanical bodies so that we will live forever (or closer to such...) - as something other then us - and this may be in our future (and has all sorts of implications/ramifications in and of itself) (and BTW will probably be necessary for interstellar spaceflight....but that is another matter entirely....ah the age old concept of time...anyway...) - but until then we must accept and understand that we and everyone we know will die - and as much wishful thinking that we will live again and see them again in some sort of discorporal fairyland - and as much theats that if we don't believe as we are told that we will miss out on this and suffer terribly instead - well eh - it just ain't gonna happen - so get over it already.

[Jade]

Religion is still bad (and false) and we must move beyond it if we are to survive as a species.

I know this post is not directed at me but personally I too feel that religion can be an inhibitor (it has certainly been for Turkey and Iran, just looking at the status of these two countries should make it clear for everyone just how big an inhibitor religion has been for them) and I don't practice it...Yet I cringe when you say things like that 1.5 million...Perhaps because I go to an international school and we are subconsciously taught to never openly lash at someone else's opinions...We may question it but never condemn it...I partially agree with you but I do wish you would use a lighter tone because afterall, these decisions and opinions are personal and who are we to condemn them? It's everyone's own private thought/opinion and I suppose we should respect that???

[bell-the-cat]

It is on this forum..."The Assassination of Hrant Dink "..page 26


http://www.armeniangenocide.com/foru...t=2301&page=26

Thank you Helen and Jade.

[bell-the-cat]

Welcome Nick! I'm sure you have much to add to our forum...I'm looking forward to your posts...
I have a theory about religion that may or may not apply to the Armenian case and that is that if a religion has been in a region for a very long time, the traditions and rituals become so interlinked with each other that the religion becomes part of the culture. And for me culture is the mix of all these factors that define a race or rather a certain group of peoples living in the same area. Research tells me that the Armenians were the first country(?) to have taken the Christian religion as their main religion...Therefore, Christianity is so embedded within you, your culture etc. that in a way it does define you...

A lot of Armenian-specific customs are actually pre-Christian in origin. (As are a lot of universal Christian customs, of course, like Christmas).

[Փոքրիկ Իշխան]

So when did Armenians begin naming their children Ani, Dvin and Tatev?

In Glendale (California) it is common to find females with those names. My friend even knew of a girl named Sanahin. We are so original.