Armenian genocide from a Turk's point of view

[lal]

Some Turk on this Forum said a few days ago that you will never get Turks to admit anything unless you beat it out of them. I think I will go with that concept.

I have been told that when it comes to Turks I have a double personality (Jackal and hide). As hard as I try I cannot help that, it must have been imprinted in my DNA.

we do need to question why this all happened. why peacefull peasent mehmet of Anatolia, suddenly turned into a monster and raped his neighbour vartan's wife,stole their house and gold and killed their children ? probably your answer is that all turks are barbarians.

in normal conditions we are all simple,ordinary, good people.but we are not free to think independently. some other few people who has the power in their hands tell us what to think and how to think and who to hate and fight against. this was like this all history in all over the world and still so.

Unless humans can evolve, this attitudes never will change. we will keep on struggling,fighting,killing, hating, without knowing what benefit these will bring to us individually or to our families happiness.

do you know why bush invaded ıraq? do you know why 1 million people died there? what benefits did your family get out of this invasion. what should we call this? muslims killed each other? they deserved it? genocide?do you know how people feel against americans around this area of the world. does texas cowboy Sam has any problem with poor Ahmed of Bağdat?should arabs start an armenian kind vendetta revange against americans? or is armenian genocide is not comparable to anything?



yes, they tell us and we believe them. they create the borders.they create the enemy. they never let us to question ourselves about other sides position. we are always correct in everything. in our case,what happened to the armenian women,children and elders of anatolia? where are they? ı cant ask?

ı dont know the solutions.ı dont know how people can start realising the power of love and sharing instead of the ugly,satanic taste of endlessly beating the other side and gaining more power and more wealth.the story is not turk against armenian.it is a very generelised human problem.

and,yes it happened. and ım sure if my grandfathers fathers were alive today,they would certainly feel very ashamed for the crimes they did.

[lal]

I can`t believe I missed this thread.I hope you come back lal and continue posting.We need more poeple like you here.

Regards,

Alexandros

thanks for your nice words.

[Steph]

and,yes it happened. and ım sure if my grandfathers fathers were alive today,they would certainly feel very ashamed for the crimes they did.

Nice post again Lal, questions that most of us here can't answer, wish we could.
We all must continue to believe in the true human spirit which lies in everyone, no matter how deep.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Ped, which one is it ?

How do you mean bro, be slightly more specific

[Edoman]

Hello Lal

Lal, come down, I was joking and no, I don’t think that all Turks are Barbarians.
Maybe I don’t understand but your question is flawed, Turks did not suddenly turn on the Armenians overnight, persecutions and deliberate discriminations existed long before the multiple Armenian massacres that eventually led to the AG.
Hey, I like your philosophy of life. We Armenians have always believed in live and let live (which might have been our down fall in this cut throat world) but let’s not forget that man was created as a hunter and a predator. Unfortunately wars will continue for resources, control, and to establish power. Our leaders will continue to lie and used pretexts to achieve their objectives; that has not change in over 1000s of years as you know.

As far as the Iraq war I have few ideas why Bush, our delusional Emperor, decided to invade Iraq and it has nothing to do with the interest of the American people or the US national security. There has been major human suffering in Iraq but is it Genocide? No. Did Saddam commit Genocide by using WMD on the Kurds? No, that was a slaughter like the Ottomans did to the Armenians prior to the full blown extermination. Genocide is almost always committed by the state against its own citizens; Iraq was invaded by the coalition forces and later by Islamic Extremists, sectarian violence was fueled by these Islamists but ultimately it is Bushes fault, but no Genocide.
BTW, I am sure that you know that Turkey was the first country to volunteer to fight in Afghanistan after 911 and without their support the war in Iraq would not have been possible to sustain. US approval rating in Turkey is well bellow 20% last time I checked and it might drop to zero very soon with Obama bringing up Genocide issues around the world. However he has surrounded himself with Genocide deniers but it will remain to see what will happen. Africa is in big trouble right now and nothing is being done by any country.
Another thing Bush has done is demean the word Genocide. It used to be that if a US president declares Genocide that means something has to be done about it. But now I guess just saying that it is Genocide is good enough. He stood there and announced that Rwanda is Genocide. So what happened next? NOTHING, No action, let the killings continue.

It is an Ugly world we live in Lal and let me ask, why would Turkey admit to Genocide when US does not officially recognize it? This is why we have to beat it out of the Turks, not in the sense of violence but by never dropping this issue, educating the masses, and never allowing time to cloud and slowly dissipate this crime into the black holes of history.
We still exsist.

Armenians will stand as long as the two peaks of Mt Ararat stand.
Sheers

[lal]

Lal, come down, I was joking and no, I don’t think that all Turks are Barbarians.
Maybe I don’t understand but your question is flawed, Turks did not suddenly turn on the Armenians overnight, persecutions and deliberate discriminations existed long before the multiple Armenian massacres that eventually led to the AG.
Hey, I like your philosophy of life. We Armenians have always believed in live and let live (which might have been our down fall in this cut throat world) but let’s not forget that man was created as a hunter and a predator. Unfortunately wars will continue for resources, control, and to establish power. Our leaders will continue to lie and used pretexts to achieve their objectives; that has not change in over 1000s of years as you know.

As far as the Iraq war I have few ideas why Bush, our delusional Emperor, decided to invade Iraq and it has nothing to do with the interest of the American people or the US national security. There has been major human suffering in Iraq but is it Genocide? No. Did Saddam commit Genocide by using WMD on the Kurds? No, that was a slaughter like the Ottomans did to the Armenians prior to the full blown extermination. Genocide is almost always committed by the state against its own citizens; Iraq was invaded by the coalition forces and later by Islamic Extremists, sectarian violence was fueled by these Islamists but ultimately it is Bushes fault, but no Genocide.
BTW, I am sure that you know that Turkey was the first country to volunteer to fight in Afghanistan after 911 and without their support the war in Iraq would not have been possible to sustain. US approval rating in Turkey is well bellow 20% last time I checked and it might drop to zero very soon with Obama bringing up Genocide issues around the world. However he has surrounded himself with Genocide deniers but it will remain to see what will happen. Africa is in big trouble right now and nothing is being done by any country.
Another thing Bush has done is demean the word Genocide. It used to be that if a US president declares Genocide that means something has to be done about it. But now I guess just saying that it is Genocide is good enough. He stood there and announced that Rwanda is Genocide. So what happened next? NOTHING, No action, let the killings continue.

It is an Ugly world we live in Lal and let me ask, why would Turkey admit to Genocide when US does not officially recognize it? This is why we have to beat it out of the Turks, not in the sense of violence but by never dropping this issue, educating the masses, and never allowing time to cloud and slowly dissipate this crime into the black holes of history.
We still exsist.

Armenians will stand as long as the two peaks of Mt Ararat stand.
Sheers

No problem for me.because ı dont believe that my state represents me. ı can not respect my state in many things. ı dont believe that we are taught correct history,there are not enough women rights,student rights,religious rights,human rights,property rights,minority rights,alevi rights,kurd rights in this country.so, ı always suspect about my states guidance in every subject they impose on me.But this doesnt mean that ı blindly support every attack against to my country.because ı dont respect any politics in any part of the world. we,people are the sheeps in every place on this earth and we all have shepherds infront of us who can easily use us for his dinner meals.

if mehmet of anatolia went crazy not in one day,it happened lets say in 10 years or 20 years . all mehmets sons were killed in some places that important people sent. mehmet couldnt understand what was happenning. and those very important people pointed his old neighbour as the reason of his sons murderers. so mehmet did what the important people wanted him to do.

there is nothing like, great armenia or great turkey or great america. this world belong to all of us. all we have to do is not to let ourselves to be used by others. we have to ask why? allways. why should ı hate other ordinary people? why should they be my enemy? why?

every injustice in the world must be problem of all of us. so if ı protest the hunger in africa,how can ı disragard the historic pains of armenians.

if we are less religous,less nationalist,less wealthy but more human ,we will be surprised to see how the pains can cure.

lal

[Edoman]

Well said.

Lal, you are a good dissent Turk. Now I know, you must be the type of Turk that my Grandmother would talk so well of, I am sure of it. She never understood why things turned out the way they did and she was just like your description “less religious, less nationalist, less wealthy but more human”
It makes me very happy to know that there are Turks like you. I wished things were different. You know, I came to this website (Friendly grounds) to get a brake from butting heads with Turks on English speaking Turkish forums (most of them shut down now) and to spill some emotions out within my people; psychological healing? Maybe.
Some of us in Diaspora are really lost. This Genocide of my people is not an easy thing to face, you learn as you grow up that Turks decided to kill us off but you don’t really understand the extend of it until you start looking deeply and that is where you can get into trouble. You have to walk away from it sometimes just to save your sanity. Guess what, I am learning more about the positive end of Turks here. Funny thing.
Maybe one day again we will no longer be enemies; until that glorious day, I salute you.

[lal]

Lal, you are a good dissent Turk. Now I know, you must be the type of Turk that my Grandmother would talk so well of, I am sure of it. She never understood why things turned out the way they did and she was just like your description “less religious, less nationalist, less wealthy but more human”
It makes me very happy to know that there are Turks like you. I wished things were different. You know, I came to this website (Friendly grounds) to get a brake from butting heads with Turks on English speaking Turkish forums (most of them shut down now) and to spill some emotions out within my people; psychological healing? Maybe.
Some of us in Diaspora are really lost. This Genocide of my people is not an easy thing to face, you learn as you grow up that Turks decided to kill us off but you don’t really understand the extend of it until you start looking deeply and that is where you can get into trouble. You have to walk away from it sometimes just to save your sanity. Guess what, I am learning more about the positive end of Turks here. Funny thing.
Maybe one day again we will no longer be enemies; until that glorious day, I salute you.

Dear friend,

when ı read your last words, ı had tears in my eyes. ım here not defend my grandparents,or ottomans or turks.ım just writing as a simple human. its so simple.

ı will tell you my conversation with a taxi driver in istanbul after the protest walk of hrant dink when ı was turning back home, to let you understand how people can be brainwashed so deeply.

he asked me and my friend why we joined to the protest of this killed armenian bustard. he said armenians created pkk terrorist organization and many killed terrorists have armenian id s on them.armenians made a genocide against turks in history. instead of joining to these traitors, he advised us to join to the turkish soldiers funerals who are killed by pkk terrorists.he said the murderer of hrant is a hero who killed an enemy.

we were horrified by this mens words.ı said ı feel sorry for every single soldier murdered, but also for every single terrorist also. because they are all lost humans.

he got more angry and told me that those dead terrorists are nothing but animals.

than ı said but ı love animals also. ım sure you get angry also to the animal rights protesters also dont you? he said when there are so many poor and starving people outside,yes he hated to see such abnormal people protesting animal tortures.

ı asked him. which part of turkey he came from. he said konya. what animals did you have in your home village. he said cows and dogs. ı asked what you felt about your dog if it died. he said he would feel sorrow.

than ı said okay. you remember you called hrant a dog. and ım here for the grief ı feel for this murdered dog hrant. is it okay now?

we didnt talk until ı came home.we were two foreigners in one country.


ı thank joseph for creating such a good atmosphere in this site,that we can meet friendly people from opposite sides .

lal

[Steph]

How do you mean bro, be slightly more specific

Ped, in the post I referred to you stated Celts were only in Anatolia as traders and further in you stated that the Celtic Galatians settled in the area of present day Ankara, Celtic being spoken there for @ 700 years.

I think the latter is correct.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

I'm inclined to think so too

However as you full well now there are many different books, and so of them do contradict each other at times.

My personal belief is that they came as traders from the Balkans or Gaul and settled there, whether they remained for a while after the 700 tenure, intermarried, died out or moved away I cannot say with surety, much of Celtic history is fairly obscured due to contains invasions in areas where Celts settled or lived on as their countries, for instance much of the history of Gaulish France is obscure and alot of Welsh history was lost during the Roman and Anglo/Saxon invasion.

Evidence though so far does not show any link between Celts and Kazakhstan that I know of