Armenian genocide from a Turk's point of view

[ardakilic]

we are originally from selanik. they also killed us there. ı know this. in akhisar we moved to their houses and lands. and they moved to ours.

Lal, i donot mention 1923-24 Population Exchange in the frame of Lausanne Traty between Greece and Turkey. What i ask is, when nothing happened, in 1912-13, why Ittihadists exile West Anatolian Greek population by force which is known as "Rum Kaçırtması" in Turkey (Also Greek Genocide in WWI can be stated here but i skipt it for now).

Important key figure of this ethnical cleansing is a staff continuity. The Ittihadist staff had experience in 1912 Greek exile and they used that experience in Armenian Genocide.

[Alexandros]

Turkish intellectuals who apologized for Armenian Genocide receive threats


10.12.2008 17:26 GMT+04:00

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Employees of Agos Armenian-Turkish bilingual newspaper are well acquainted with the Turkish intellectuals, who apologized for the Armenian Genocide, said the editor of the Armenian sector of Agos.

“Media somehow obtained the statement that was supposed to be promulgated on January 1, 2009. Nevertheless, they will continue their action,” Bagrat Estukyan told a news conference in Yerevan today.

“These people present their personal viewpoint of the problem and do not impose it on anyone,” he said.

Mr. Estukyan informed that several days after the publication of their letter, the intellectuals started receiving threats and offending messages.

A group of Turkish intellectuals have apologized for the “great disaster that Ottoman Armenians suffered in 1915.”

Professors Baskan Oran and Ahmet Insel, journalists Ali Bayramoglu and Cengiz Aktar personally apologized for the 1915 events.

The group is asking other people to sign the petition, which reads as follows: “I cannot conscientiously accept the indifference to the great disaster that Ottoman Armenians suffered in 1915, and its denial. I reject this injustice and acting of my own will, I share the feelings and pains of my Armenian brothers and sisters, and I apologize to them.”

The campaign initiators have underlined that first they will collect signatures from intellectuals and they will then open a secure website to collect signatures.

Link

Academics’ Armenia apology to test taboos


Monday, December 15, 2008

ANKARA - A group of Turkish intellectuals and academics are planning to issue a public apology on the Internet in relation to the Armenian claims of genocide, testing one of Turkey's most sensitive taboos.

The campaign, which has drawn the ire of nationalists who regard it as an act of national betrayal, coincides with a diplomatic rapprochement between Turkey and Armenia to end almost 100 years of hostility.

Cengiz Aktar, a professor at Istanbul's Bahçeşehir University who also writes for the Hürriyet Daily News & Economic Review, and one of the campaign's organizers, said the group plans to issue the apology Monday along with a non-binding Internet petition to gather signatures.

It will read, "My conscience does not accept the insensitivity showed to and the denial of the Great Catastrophe that the Ottoman Armenians were subjected to in 1915.

"I reject this injustice and for my share, I empathize with the feelings and pain of my Armenian brothers. I apologize to them."

Turkey accepts that many Armenians were killed during the waning years of the Ottoman Empire, but strongly denies the Armenian claims of genocide, saying that Muslim Turks also died in inter-ethnic conflicts.

Turks, including Nobel Literature Laureate Orhan Pamuk, have been prosecuted in the European Union candidate country for affirming that the 1915 incidents amount to a so called genocide.

The apology, which has been leaked to the media, threatens to re-ignite a controversy that challenges one of the ideological foundations of modern Turkey.

Aktar said the initiative was meant to allow Turks to be able to offer a personal apology and put an end to an official silence.


Individual apology
"We are not targeting anyone. It is an apology of an individual nature. We want to tell our Armenian brothers and sisters we apologize for not being able to discuss this issue for almost 100 years," he told Reuters.

He said the group included 200 writers, intellectuals and academics. Among the signatories are Germany’s Green Party co-chair Cem Özdemir, journalists Ece Temelkuran, Mine Kırıkkanat, Oral Çalışlar, Ertuğrul Kürkçü, director Barış Pirhasan, political scientist Baskın Oran, writers Murathan Mungan, Enis Batur, economists Ahmet İnsel, Ayşe Buğra, musician Aylin Aslım, actress Derya Alabora, and historians Halil Berkay and Selim Deringil.

President Gül became the first Turkish leader to visit Armenia in September as Turkey has sought to improve ties.

Link

[bell-the-cat]

ı dont think every slaughter can be called a genocide. there cant be a kurd genocide, because they are today living all over turkey and their percentage is growing higher every year. also there cant be a greek genocide either. because they did relatively similar slaughters against muslims in greece.and there was a programmed exchange between the two countries. but ı think armenian genocide is real and unique. because all anatolia was evacuated without a certain agreement and safe journey to a certain country. also turks in erivan was sent to anatolia. but it was not comparable to armenians numbers. there is a mountainous small acountry called armenia, but the reality is millions of armenians are lost people spreaded all over the world. maybe asyrian cleanings can be called a genocide also. but ı dont know their history well.

A genocide does not have to be successful for the actions of those doing it to be called genocidal, so the intent as well as the end result has to be looked at.

There was a Greek genocide - both in intent and in the end result. Kemalist Turkey had a deliberate policy of exterminating all Christian communities in Turkey - the population exchange wasn't a programmed exchange, it was an attempt at regularising an already existing policy of Turkey. Also, the Greeks of Anatolia were very different culturally from those in Greece.

[bell-the-cat]

Lal, i donot mention 1923-24 Population Exchange in the frame of Lausanne Traty between Greece and Turkey.

Stop propagating this myth. The Lausanne Treaty had nothing to do with the population exchange. The "Population Exchange" agreement was a separate agreement signed by Greece and Turkey months before the Lausanne Treaty was signed.

[ardakilic]

Stop propagating this myth. The Lausanne Treaty had nothing to do with the population exchange. The "Population Exchange" agreement was a separate agreement signed by Greece and Turkey months before the Lausanne Treaty was signed.

Did you read what i wrote totally?

I remembered something wrong. But what about propagating? Is there any clue that i have propagated? Is there any intent to mislead the facts?

Just malevolence...

http://www.greek-genocide.org/faq.html (Question 8)

[Gavur]

mad: The Lausanne Treaty had nothing to do with the population exchange. The "Population Exchange" agreement was a separate agreement signed by Greece and Turkey months before the Lausanne Treaty was signed.

Naturally! it had a huge bearing on the treaty; as Turkey being the moving party in the exchange negotiations ,was very demanding.The west's appeasment started there and ended with Lausanne.

[Alexandros]

Academics’ Armenia apology to test taboos


Monday, December 15, 2008

ANKARA - A group of Turkish intellectuals and academics are planning to issue a public apology on the Internet in relation to the Armenian claims of genocide, testing one of Turkey's most sensitive taboos.

The campaign, which has drawn the ire of nationalists who regard it as an act of national betrayal, coincides with a diplomatic rapprochement between Turkey and Armenia to end almost 100 years of hostility.

Cengiz Aktar, a professor at Istanbul's Bahçeşehir University who also writes for the Hürriyet Daily News & Economic Review, and one of the campaign's organizers, said the group plans to issue the apology Monday along with a non-binding Internet petition to gather signatures.

It will read, "My conscience does not accept the insensitivity showed to and the denial of the Great Catastrophe that the Ottoman Armenians were subjected to in 1915.

"I reject this injustice and for my share, I empathize with the feelings and pain of my Armenian brothers. I apologize to them."

Turkey accepts that many Armenians were killed during the waning years of the Ottoman Empire, but strongly denies the Armenian claims of genocide, saying that Muslim Turks also died in inter-ethnic conflicts.

Turks, including Nobel Literature Laureate Orhan Pamuk, have been prosecuted in the European Union candidate country for affirming that the 1915 incidents amount to a so called genocide.

The apology, which has been leaked to the media, threatens to re-ignite a controversy that challenges one of the ideological foundations of modern Turkey.

Aktar said the initiative was meant to allow Turks to be able to offer a personal apology and put an end to an official silence.


Individual apology
"We are not targeting anyone. It is an apology of an individual nature. We want to tell our Armenian brothers and sisters we apologize for not being able to discuss this issue for almost 100 years," he told Reuters.

He said the group included 200 writers, intellectuals and academics. Among the signatories are Germany’s Green Party co-chair Cem Özdemir, journalists Ece Temelkuran, Mine Kırıkkanat, Oral Çalışlar, Ertuğrul Kürkçü, director Barış Pirhasan, political scientist Baskın Oran, writers Murathan Mungan, Enis Batur, economists Ahmet İnsel, Ayşe Buğra, musician Aylin Aslım, actress Derya Alabora, and historians Halil Berkay and Selim Deringil.

President Gül became the first Turkish leader to visit Armenia in September as Turkey has sought to improve ties.

Link

The Campaign To Apologize To The Armenians Starts In The Internet


The campaign to apologize to the Armenians for the insensitivity shown to and the denial of the “Great Catastrophe” has been taken to the internet. The number of the signatures has already risen to 2500.

Bia news center - İstanbul

15-12-2008

The campaign to apologize to the Armenians for the insensitivity shown to and the denial of the “Great Catastrophe” has already been launched in the internet.

The campaign was started with the support of the 200 academicians, journalists, jurists and activists and it says the following:

“My conscience does not accept the insensitivity shown to and the denial of the ‘Great Catastrophe’ that the Ottoman Armenians were subjected to in 1915. I reject this injustice and for my share, I empathize with the feelings and pain of my Armenian brothers, I apologize them.”

The signatories have become 2500

Among the 2500 people who joined the campaign are Adnan Ekşigil, Ahmet Çakmak, Ahmet Çiğdem, Ahmet Kuyaş, Ali Nesin, Oral Çalışlar, Ali Arif Cangı, Perihan Mağden, Alper Görmüş, Arzu Başaran, Asaf Savaş Akat, Lale Mansur, Muhsin Kızılkaya, Neşe Düzel, Aydın Engin, Aylin Aslım, Ayşe Önal, Barış Pirhasan, Filiz Koçali, Cem Mansur, Deniz Türkali, Derya Alabora, Ergin Cinmen, İbrahim Kaboğlu, Şebnem Korur Fincancı, Kemal Göktaş, Kezban Hatemi, Tarhan Erdem, Koray Çalışkan, Yavuz Bingöl, Koray Düzgören gib adlar da bulunuyor.(EÖ/TB)

Link

[bell-the-cat]

Did you read what i wrote totally?

I remembered something wrong. But what about propagating? Is there any clue that i have propagated? Is there any intent to mislead the facts?

Just malevolence...

http://www.greek-genocide.org/faq.html (Question 8)

You wrote "Population Exchange in the frame of Lausanne Traty" - "in the frame of" means "within". The Population Exchange agreement was not within, or part of, the Lausanne Treaty.

[ardakilic]

You wrote "Population Exchange in the frame of Lausanne Traty" - "in the frame of" means "within". The Population Exchange agreement was not within, or part of, the Lausanne Treaty.

I donot assert that i didnot write wrong. What i emphasize is the word "propagate", the clue of malevolence.

I remembered something wrong. But what about propagating? Is there any clue that i have propagated? Is there any intent to mislead the facts?

Just malevolence...

[bell-the-cat]

I donot assert that i didnot write wrong. What i emphasize is the word "propagate", the clue of malevolence.

You reproduced here a falsehood (your claim that the population exchange was part of the Lausanne treaty) that you had read somewhere else without realising how false it was. To reproduce something is to propagate it. I used the word correctly - if you see "malevolence" in that, that's just your problem, your overreaction.