Centuries of peace between Anatolian muslims and Christians

[Steph]

I really see no reason for you to be rude, I have never been rude to you, so there is no reason to use argumentum ad hominem. Now then in return I'll be a little more rude :

If you can read (which is very helpful I believe) peruse down to CRDA France's post, he was talking about coloniser vs indigenous, which is indeed the case in genocide, unless your telling me that the Turks weren't coloniers

Okay, now if Hitler was Socialist explain this to me :

I think I wrote that Hitler was a NATIONAL SOCIALIST, which was shortened in the German vernacular to Nazi, as Gestapo is a vernacular for Geheime Statspolizei (State secret police).

[Steph]

Religion is not what motivated the Genocide, Fascism is, if you tell me that is tosh lad, then you really must open a history book.

Pedro,

To be called "lad" , by someone presumbaly younger, is an insult and quite rude.

Hopefully your own class struggle will end when you graduate college.

As an aside, my brother-in-law and best friend is 100% Irish green with all the joy that brings, especially weekends in Dublin.

Pog mah hone.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Lad, how can the word be used

Lad can merely mean man, people who are Celts frequently use it as in a friendly context, you bruise too easily.

Secondly don't assume, you know what assumption does? It makes an ass of both you and me.

Socialism can never be Nationalistic, its too conflicting ideologies, thats what we use in politics to define governmental systems and ways of ruling and their beliefs. The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture.
A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system. Taken from the merry men of Answers.


As an aside, I work actually as an IT Engineer, and I graduated quite a while ago (otherwise I wouldn't really have the job ).

Thirdly, you do have the habit on attacking socialist, I assume that in your opinion the concept of corporations, greed and exploitation is dreamed up.
Have you ever seen a sweat shop? Ever been unsure if you will have enough money to get by? Or were you too busy with your studies, because I've lived in that situation (not the sweatshop, but living in a broken down house) and its not fun.

Also please note that as you do exactly tell me your age, I couldn' really guess if you were older.

On another note, Hitler was fascist because :

Fascism is a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion. Robert O. Paxton, The Anatomy of Fascism

You see the similarities? Maybe you should actually read the Communist Manifesto, its available for free at http://www.marxists.org/

Bog Mo Cara

And while we are at different languages, tlacacemelle (peacea and happiness to you in Nahuatl)

[Steph]

Socialism can never be Nationalistic, its too conflicting ideologies, thats what we use in politics to define governmental systems and ways of ruling and their beliefs. The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture.
A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system. Taken from the merry men of Answers.

On another note, Hitler was fascist because :

Fascism is a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion. Robert O. Paxton, The Anatomy of Fascism

Pedro,
you seem to quote Wikipedia as a source of material, I suggest you Google "National Socialism" and read their definition.
Hitler was the leader of the German National Socialist Workers' Party (NSDAP)
shortened, as I said, to Nazi.

I would argue that Nazis weren't fascists, a common mistake made by the left ,in fact "Fascist" is often shouted at anyone right of centre.
Mussolini was a fascist, Hitler wasn't. (Both odious creatures though).

The idea of right & left wings for me is misleading as I consider that political thought is more of a circle. Look at the extreme left and extreme right, they nearly touch and reflect many of the same policies.
Dictatorship is dictatorship, whether by the proletariat or any other group.

As regards poor working and living conditions, I have witnessed, at first hand,
the joy communism brought to Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. I have wondered where my next meal would come from, have juggled pennies to be able to buy sour cheese to go with yesterday's bread. Hated the occasional October "Indian Summer" because the communal heating is already on, suffered in April when a late cold spell comes after it's been switched off.

Mmmm, communism, a dream many share but a nightmare many more endure.

[CRDA-France]

I know many Muslims, the area I live in in Durban, is...

in your message http://www.armeniangenocide.com/show...6&postcount=30

Pedro, if you live in Durban (South Africa),

- please see the map of Africa from the Armenian World Map printed in Amsterdam in 1695 :

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b7710424n/f4.item

- and you must remember The World Conference Against Racism which took place in Durban, 31 August - 7 September 2001 :

http://www.un.org/WCAR/

I wrote a letter to the President of this Conference, Mrs Nkosazana Dlamini Zuma, (who was then the Minister of Foreign Affairs of South Africa) and with copies to different e-mail addresses of the Department of Foreign Affairs :

http://www.crda-france.org/0en/aunconscious/durban.htm

The French text of this letter was put on a French-European website :

http://www.ridi.org/adi/special/armenie.htm

Take care. Nil

http://www.crda-france.org/fr/ainconscient/3structures_genocidaires/africanite1.htm

#718

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Actually

Pedro,
you seem to quote Wikipedia as a source of material, I suggest you Google "National Socialism" and read their definition.
Hitler was the leader of the German National Socialist Workers' Party (NSDAP)
shortened, as I said, to Nazi.

I would argue that Nazis weren't fascists, a common mistake made by the left ,in fact "Fascist" is often shouted at anyone right of centre.
Mussolini was a fascist, Hitler wasn't. (Both odious creatures though).

The idea of right & left wings for me is misleading as I consider that political thought is more of a circle. Look at the extreme left and extreme right, they nearly touch and reflect many of the same policies.
Dictatorship is dictatorship, whether by the proletariat or any other group.

As regards poor working and living conditions, I have witnessed, at first hand,
the joy communism brought to Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. I have wondered where my next meal would come from, have juggled pennies to be able to buy sour cheese to go with yesterday's bread. Hated the occasional October "Indian Summer" because the communal heating is already on, suffered in April when a late cold spell comes after it's been switched off.

Mmmm, communism, a dream many share but a nightmare many more endure.

I have the book by Paxton, but yeah it is on Wikipedia, however if you know so much about Communism, you would the example you gave of the Soviet Union was Stalinism, which is far removed from actual Communism, might I recommend the Revolution Betrayed by Leon Trotsky (Lev Davidovitch Bronstein) http://www.marxists.org/archive/trot...vbet/index.htm

Also if you have ever read The Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital and compared them to Mein Kampf, there are sincere differences, check out :

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/germany/1933/330610.htm

Yes before you ask I am a huge Trotsky fan

Ever considered maybe because Russia was constantly at war, attacked by the Nazi's and had Truman doctrines thrown on them that this could lead to poverty. Regardless of what you say, alot of companies come into the Third World and hire people for well below the minimum wage.
Why should I slave on the farm and factory when my boss does nothing and receives all the money, the workers create the goods, what changes a piece of wood from wood into a musical instrument, the worker who makes it of course. Things can be produced without owners, owners cannot produce without workers.

And class struggle is very much real, unless you have forgotten the French Revolution.

Just because something is called something, doesn't it is what it claims to be,
just like going into the office doesn't make me a hard worker, going to Sunday church doesn't make me Christian and eating TV dinner doesn't make me a chef.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

in your message http://www.armeniangenocide.com/show...6&postcount=30

Pedro, if you live in Durban (South Africa),

- please see the map of Africa from the Armenian World Map printed in Amsterdam in 1695 :

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b7710424n/f4.item

- and you must remember The World Conference Against Racism which took place in Durban, 31 August - 7 September 2001 :

http://www.un.org/WCAR/

I wrote a letter to the President of this Conference, Mrs Nkosazana Dlamini Zuma, (who was then the Minister of Foreign Affairs of South Africa) and with copies to different e-mail addresses of the Department of Foreign Affairs :

http://www.crda-france.org/0en/aunconscious/durban.htm

The French text of this letter was put on a French-European website :

http://www.ridi.org/adi/special/armenie.htm

Take care. Nil

http://www.crda-france.org/fr/ainconscient/3structures_genocidaires/africanite1.htm

#718

I remember the conference, as far as I know its not yet recognised in South Africa, the problem is we have very few Armenian in this country and alot of them were assimilated into the Indian and Colored populations during Apartheid (interestingly so were many Greeks), if you weren't of purely Northern European ancestry you were frequently definted as non white, they had one test where if your hair curls around a pencil then you are definted as black or colored, which was amusing because they defined several Chinese peole as black and many Native American, Whites, Black and Asians have curly hair.

I am trying to tell peole about the genocide here, my main concern at the moment is to spread awareness around the Chicano and Latino population.
Among Celts, the Edinburgh city council has already acknowledged the genocide.

What was your reply on the letter by the way

[Steph]

And class struggle is very much real, unless you have forgotten the French Revolution.

.

Who could forget the French Revolution? One of the hot topics of conversation in all the cafes and bars in Europe.

Pedro, I admire your convictions but the extreme left is really best in opposition to government, once in power it becomes corrupted and the poor Joe at the bottom of the heap continues to be s**t upon. The guy making the musical instrument in the sweatshop carries on regardless, he has his needs.

[Steph]

Among Celts, the Edinburgh city council has already acknowledged the genocide.

Edinburgh shines alight in Scotland.

The Welsh Assembly, independent "governing body", has also recognised the Genocide.

An area I am striving to gain recognition is with local county & city councils, if the weight of recognition grows perhaps it can help tilt the national governments.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Fair enough

I see your point, but neither of us will change the other's views, so we agree to disagree.

I agree when it came to the Soviet Union stuff was still bad, but Stalin was never really socialist.

In anycase, my concern here is not for ideology, but for Armenians.

I have always liked your posts and regardless of political beliefs admire
your conviction and ideals as well. And at the end of the day whatever
politcal system, as long as the Genocide gets recognised and reparations made I think we make a leap forward for humanity.

I myself am pushing in raising awareness on Irish sites/organisations and on Chicano organisations. Many people in Argentina are aware of the genocide as there is a substancial Armenian population, but as there are few Armenians in Mexico and alot of other places it needs to be made aware of.