Calling all Turks

[ardakilic]

it is right opposide the Armenian side (of views).

Turks are already telling the story, but you dont seem to listen (I also read the topics here in this forum)

Also you seem in Istanbul, is not that Turkey? What are you, a Kurdish rebel?

Irrelevant to subject but since you are so curious, let me answer: No, i am not a Kurd netiher a rebel.

[hipeter924]

Define Turkish

1. Ethnic groups
2. Passport holders
3. People who can speak Turkish
4. People who live in Turkey

If you mean supporting the status quo then you:

1. Don't agree with the concept of full freedom of speech and expression as entitled under the declaration of human rights
2. Deny the Armenian Genocide
3. Tolerate and accept the brutal repression of Kurds in Turkey and the equally brutal repression of Turks who try to show Kurds compassion
4. Accept and tolerate laws such as 301 which allow people to be arrested and imprisoned without a fair trial and almost always for disagreeing with the government - if that isn't dictatorial I don't know what is

[hipeter924]

it is right opposide the Armenian side (of views).

Turks are already telling the story, but you dont seem to listen (I also read the topics here in this forum)

Also you seem in Istanbul, is not that Turkey? What are you, a Kurdish rebel?

Kurds rebels? Why last century they were a favored nationality of Turkey. How times change. I guess it doesn't matter that when Kurds and Turks try to get along that the Turkish mayor is arrested and put in prison for a decade by the Turkish government under 301.

[ardakilic]

So simply, none of Turkish claims can not be true.. But all Armenian claims are real facts. That does not sound logical.

Nobody claimed that categorical seperation. Just straw-man fallacy!

[hipeter924]

ja ja ja dont take the topic somewhere else.

What I meant was simple: "The historical reasons behind the denial"

As far as I know, Turks accept the deaths but they say those three below:

* Turks (Muslims in genereal) also were killed
* It was not a genocide, it was a movement policy and it was a war station
* Ottoman soldiers did not kill Armenians, the ones -that were murdered by weapons- were killed by local groups (Kurdish tribes, Turkish rebels etc)

So simply, none of Turkish claims can not be true.. But all Armenian claims are real facts. That does not sound logical.

edit: governments can not arrest people, please learn the terms.

1. First point: Yes Turks were killed but on the battlefield in WW1, not at home
2. Syrians, Iranians and others saw this movement and it was similar to the movement used to transport the Jews to death camps
3. If it was a movement policy, then why did Hitler, Winston Churchill, and American, German and British diplomats call it genocide. Because they saw it happen, saw the pictures and heard the stories.

[ardakilic]

Then you think there may be a different reality in the history? in somewhere between the claims of those two?

If you ask me, i was educated as you think now. Through the whole Turkish education system.

But i wasnot persuaded and convinced the story. Then reserached, turned back to "Official Turkish version", then researched.

Now i can easily admit and recognize and define it as a Genocide.

And you?

[hipeter924]

If you ask me, i was educated as you think now. Through the whole Turkish education system.

But i wasnot persuaded and convinced the story. Then reserached, turned back to "Official Turkish version", then researched.

Now i can easily admit and recognize and define it as a Genocide.

And you?

I think he/she is gone?

[ardakilic]

Do they invent one for themselves? Where are they hiding it?

Also please stay on topic.

It is written wrong. Correction: Why dont Turks in Germany "invent" a genocide for themselves in that case?

[hipeter924]

Answers

1- How do you know that? They say over a hundrend of Muslims massacred while there were at their homes with dna test, mass graves, family stories and reports, and russian army logs. How could I accept something like that just because you said 'no they did not'.

2- Yep, Armenians were transported, but there were no camps. It was not similar to Holocaust. Today, hundrends of Armenian lives in Arabic states or have parents from those states.

3- They also said Russians were mass-murdering people, and Saddam, and also People's Republic of China today, North Korea too. There were enemies of Ottomans and it is normal for them to talk that way.



What I think is both sides are wrong. The Genocide was my thesis, I read both side's documents. And what I know is, Diaspora and Armenia are using the genocide as a political weapon.

The genocide is the only common tie that holds Armenians together today. Many many -you can not imagine- Armenians of Diaspora does not know any Armenian (language). I've seen any. They are not religous anymore. They have not seen Armenia during their lives. They do not have family members in Armenia and many of them do not know anyone from Armenia.

The fact is, the only common thing makes them a 'nation' is the genocide history.

Thats why they are so amused with the genocide.

Without it, the Diaspora would turn into Americans and French.

1. Like most of these claims it would be propaganda and general paranoia without evidence, which was circulated at the time to incite the Turkish people into hating and commit genocide against the Armenians and other groups concerned 'unclean' by the Turkish government.

2. True Armenians live but that is because they fled to Russia and across the world to escape the Armenian Genocide, all their homes were empty, where once before was populated by Armenians.

3. Ask any sensible Russian and they will accept they committed mass murder, not that they had a choice since just like the Turkish people they were caught up in a wave of Paranoia, propaganda an evil and murderous intent. As for Saddam Hussein, he was loved by the Turkish government for his mini genocide of the Kurds. China accepts people died in the cultural revolution, but everyone in China has the scars not just Tibet but the whole of China suffered.

Now as for enemies, if you assume that Armenians were the enemy then why did they send all their men off to fight the allies because they were patriots to Turkey, of course you don't want this known because to you Armenians are demons.

[PatriotTurk]

I am a Turk living abroad and Armenians are my friends. I believe that there is a big probability it was a genocide. I'd like Turks and historians to discuss that openly and freely. I also think that in Turkey they are afraid to open these tabou questions of minorities (Greek, Christian, Jews, Kurds, Alevis, etc) because they think it can literally divide the country, as they lived just that in the Ottoman times. History explains current Turkish reactions (indeed there were plans to destroy the Ottoman empire, using minorities or financial pressure). And what made Turkey advanced compared to other Muslim countries was indeed our unity as a country. Many think that recognising the genocide would mean paying financial compensation to Armenians (personally I am opposed to that).
My message to Turks would be: don't be afraid, you are strong enough, you are not guilty, you are not going to collapse. Take the initiatives, make peace with yourself, don' t be too emotional, you can make peace with your old enemies.
My message to Armenians would be: be patient and tolerant, support us in our discussions, use direct dialogue and not international pressure. Civil society is and will be ready to discuss more easily in a peaceful atmosphere.
I hope Turks will, in the very near future, celebrate 24th of April with our Armenian friends, commemorating ALL victims of WW1 and after.
I also believe that the first steps would be to respect each other, not denigrating, because many times what I can read in both sides is not good for reconciliation-justice (isn't it what we all want?).