Calling all Turks

[Sako]

Saco, that’s ridiculous. Your suggestions sound more like a Christmas wish list for Santa Clause than reality.

I know, the truth hurts, Ferdi, so believe it or not. Out of all those problems I mentioned, a few may not come up but rest will. Use your God given brains you think this issue will be over by a mere parliament agreeing that the Genocide happened? That’s not justice Ferdi. I want this issue to be over just like the next person but it won’t finish as simply as you say it will. You know how much money still belongs to Armenians? It’s not just the land, forget about the land, receiving LOT’S of land from Turkey is a wish, I agree, but there is MUCH more bigger problems waiting once the Genocide is recognized and you have to be simply retarded to think that everything will finish with a mere, “We believe it happened” because we all know it happened and Turkey hasn’t stopped dising the Armenians. You don’t get what I’m saying. What if Germany simply recognized the holocaust after WWII and didn’t do anything after that? Would that be justice, would that even be humane?

You seriously cannot expect the Turkish taxpayer to cough up billions of dollars and accept a ‘greater Armenia’ by ceding territory, monuments, structures, archives etc for the sake of satisfying your perceived view of making this right.

The problem is Turkey DOESN’T want a great and peaceful Armenia. That money you mention belonged to the Armenians Ferdi and I say this without anger or anything, I’m stating the facts. It’s not like we’re going to take all the money in Turkey’s treasury, we can’t live on someone else’s sorrow, we take all the money that belonged to the Armenians back and of course, Turkey will be losing money, you can’t do Genocide and then come out with your hands clean and a smile on your face. So many bank accounts are under the control of Turkey because their owners were murdered in the Genocide so by taking those bank accounts back, do we take anything away from Turkey? You misunderstand me. We take back what was ours and the fact is that if we take back most of what is ours if not all of it, Turkey will have LOT’S of problems, we’ll be taking away lots of what you see now because it belonged to us, it never belonged to Turkey. This isn’t as farfetched as you’d like it to be.

Most of what you said will end up being an obstacle and impediment to recognition and reconciliation, guaranteed. I think you need to align yourself more to Steph’s thinking. Yes you have the right to demand recognition but forget about all the other things.

Now THAT’S exactly what Turkey wants and your words are as stale as they come. That’s exactly what you want so you won’t have losses. No matter how much you recognize the Genocide, you will always think of Turkey first, I don’t blame you either, I’m doing the same but the difference is, I ask for what is right and without hiding anything or denying anything. What you’re saying though isn’t going to happen, you couldn’t have said anything duller. The Turks didn’t wage war, they committed Genocide, and they have gone much further then Genocide till today. The world will not close its eyes this time, Ferdi, and like it or not, Turkey will pay. I talk practically, not with hate. If we killed all the Turks, how would you feel if we simply “recognized” that we killed you? That’s obvious. That is already happening Ferdi so it’s not even a step forward. Everyone knows it happened, it’s nothing new, and Turkey, by hiding away, simply makes everything worse for itself. No one needs mere recognition. The Turks have taken SO MUCH away Ferdi, you don’t understand that, and by merely recognizing the Genocide, it’s like throwing a bone at whimpering dog so it’ll shut its mouth.

Some positive gestures and concessions may be possible but these will always be conditional upon the goodwill of the Turkish people

I don’t think we can take much more of Turkey’s “goodwill” which we’ve been seeing for like a century, lol, and if we left this issue in the hands of the Turks, they wouldn’t do anything AT ALL so enough with the “we are good hearted people from the start” ploy. You don’t even accept what’s going on. And if what you say is right, that a mere recognition can happen and all, WHY doesn’t Turkey do it? Hasn’t this question hit you?

...never forget that regardless of how painful that is to hear. It could never be forced upon them by a external party.

Let’s just say there’s more to it then you think and see …

Reading your post quite frankly leads me to believe that Armenians themselves are unwittingly feeding this denial process.

By their anger, which they don’t know sometimes how to use in the proper way, gives this impression but when Turks come up and say IT NEVER HAPPENED, that’s what sparks that anger, your argument is petty, imagine being denied for a century. My ancestors were killed, children, mothers were murdered, dreams were cut short and according to you, if you think we’ll be closing our eyes and simply feel “blessed” by hearing Turkey accept the Genocide, wipe that grin off your face, your in for a rude awakening. Why should we be modest after all Turkey’s done, their not even taking one step forward? It’s not you that’s supposed to say what we’re supposed to do and especially in the tone of voice Turks use lately. And just incase, we’re handling ourselves pretty well compared to what other countries would do Ferdi. You accept the Genocide but in a manner that still keeps Turkey soaring in the Sky and Armenia down beneath the desert.

Is it any wonder that with such a divergence of views within the Armenian community about demands for compensation, territory, apology or no we just want recognition only, that a lot of Turks play cat and mouse or just close up shop and ignore the whole thing.

You don’t understand what Armenia’s and Turkey’s positions are right now. Turkey is the accused, not Armenia, the Turks are to blame and for something that is simply demoniac. So don’t divide the blame among Armenians and Turks because that’s not even possible in this particular case. For a century, the Turks have sneered at us, saying the Genocide never happened (although they knew very well that it did) and now when we get angry, you come up and say that we shouldn’t be or that we’re going too far? Your words and views are ridiculous and impractical and without any feeling. You accept the Genocide but not the fact that we should get what we deserve. That’s worse then not believing the Genocide happened.

Forget about living in a free country, I think your living in fantasy land. Perhaps it’s just the exuberance of your youth, I don’t know.

Or maybe your misunderstanding/ridiculous ways comes with your old age. And my country is freer then your country is or then you are so don’t bring up freedom. Our country has suffered more then you can imagine in your worst nightmares, the Turks have laughed and still laugh at us today, and justice will be served, Ferdi, nothing is forgotten and everything will be dealt with properly, no one has closed their eyes, keep wishing that they will. Christmas is coming, write a wish list to Santa, BEGGING that this issue will end with a mere recognition because it won’t, so you can use all the help you can get. I’ve been peaceful and even happy talking but I’ve realized how Turks have their country soaring somehow, minimizing everything that happened in strange ways. And Armenia has suffered enough, my country, my people, my ancestors have suffered enough, all of us, including the Turks have suffered enough. It’s time this issue was faced properly and not with Turkey minimizing the past events and Armenia itself. Justice should and WILL be served, my country deserves it, and it will be served not only in the case of Turkey but all countries and all problems. This xxxx has gone too far and if you are against this Ferdi or minimize this fact in ANY WAY, I don’t consider you as a person who accepts the Genocide or look forward to a brighter future. I rest my case and I don’t consider anyone as my enemy, 100% guaranteed, but I’m not going to sit and watch my country suffer anymore.

I respect what your saying but there is more to this issue then you think and I see many events being marginalized and it is nothing less then painful.

[Steph]

Is it any wonder that with such a divergence of views within the Armenian community about demands for compensation, territory, apology or no we just want recognition only, that a lot of Turks play cat and mouse or just close up shop and ignore the whole thing.

Ferdi, the whole massive point is that people are allowed a divergence of opinion, that's what democracy is about, why it often fails too. I hope you're able to enjoy a true democracy one day, me too !

[ardakilic]

You seriously cannot expect the Turkish taxpayer to cough up billions of dollars and accept a ‘greater Armenia’ by ceding territory, monuments, structures, archives etc for the sake of satisfying your perceived view of making this right.

On 29 October 1918, Dr. Nazim who is one of the major responsible of Genocides, flee to Germany with 665 000 Turkish gold pounds which belongs to mainly 'deported' Armenians. He was sentenced to death 1919, 5 July by Ottoman courts.

Several times he wrote to M. Kemal that he is useless in Europe and wants to come Ankara to serve. He succeeded to survive after some assasination attempts and permitted to return Turkey in 1922.

Anyway, he couldnt escape from death so much and hanged in 1926, not for the crimes he committed but M. Kemal wanted to get rid of him.

[bell-the-cat]

Saco, that’s ridiculous. Your suggestions sound more like a Christmas wish list for Santa Clause than reality.

And Santa Claus is for children.

[bell-the-cat]

Reading your post quite frankly leads me to believe that Armenians themselves are unwittingly feeding this denial process. Is it any wonder that with such a divergence of views within the Armenian community about demands for compensation, territory, apology or no we just want recognition only, that a lot of Turks play cat and mouse or just close up shop and ignore the whole thing.

If Turkey is doing the recognising for the sake of Armenians then it is doing it for the wrong reasons. Turkey should do it because it will be beneficial for Turkish society as a whole.

[imported_ferdi]

Or maybe your misunderstanding/ridiculous ways comes with your old age.

Ouch that hurts. It's the second time I've been called 'old' this week. First by my 16 year old niece who called me 'officially old' after my birthday and now by you. Give me a break I'm only 36.

[imported_ferdi]

You seriously cannot expect the Turkish taxpayer to cough up billions of dollars and accept a ‘greater Armenia’ by ceding territory, monuments, structures, archives etc for the sake of satisfying your perceived view of making this right.

On 29 October 1918, Dr. Nazim who is one of the major responsible of Genocides, flee to Germany with 665 000 Turkish gold pounds which belongs to mainly 'deported' Armenians. He was sentenced to death 1919, 5 July by Ottoman courts.

Several times he wrote to M. Kemal that he is useless in Europe and wants to come Ankara to serve. He succeeded to survive after some assasination attempts and permitted to return Turkey in 1922.

Anyway, he couldnt escape from death so much and hanged in 1926, not for the crimes he committed but M. Kemal wanted to get rid of him.

Well don't let it be said that Ataturk never did anything useful for the Armenians (even if it was just coincidental). I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for the thanks though :-)

[Joseph]

Ouch that hurts. It's the second time I've been called 'old' this week. First by my 16 year old niece who called me 'officially old' after my birthday and now by you. Give me a break I'm only 36.

You're not old. If your old then I'm old...an impossibility!

[imported_ferdi]

If Turkey is doing the recognising for the sake of Armenians then it is doing it for the wrong reasons. Turkey should do it because it will be beneficial for Turkish society as a whole.

I concur. It needs to be genuine and based on the sentiments of the majority of the people or a political party representative of the majority. However any action remotely feeling like collective punishment will result in entrenching the denial even deeper than it is now (so much so our great grand kids will still be talking about it). Achieving recognition without reconciliation will be a pyrrhic victory. Granted reconciliation won’t come cheap, it may end up costing billions but it won’t be like sending a blank check or title deeds across to anyone claiming a lost relative. A crucial element will be the preservation and restoration of cultural and archeological sites, and re-building them brick by brick if need be. It will be done not to punish or for revenge but because it’s the right thing to do as custodians of this land. But I also don’t think a lot of Armenians get that any reconciliation will end up costing them a lot of time, energy and financial resources as well. It’s going to require a paradigm shift in thinking for all concerned.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

You're not old. If your old then I'm old...an impossibility!

Age is in the eye of the beholder, I do not see someone as old in their 30s, there are many attractive women that age and over (Nigella Lawson is 50 and she is hottt!), Joseph mi amigo, you agree?