Discussion Thread

[bell-the-cat]

Who is Armen?

Armen Aroyan

[Gavur]

Why do they ignore it altogether? Where are you from Gavur?

I was referring to the "mixed" decendents of our families that married with Turks by force and/or intimidation.

[lal]

Thanks LAL. Maybe not in the nearest future, but maybe some of our great-grandchildren will live together again. What's for certain is that Armenia and Turkey are destined to be neighbor nations, and it is in their mutual best interest to be tight with one another. They should have open borders and vacation in each other's lands.

But as far as a widespread migration of Armenians back to Turkey, I don't think that would be advisable for the longterm existence of the Armenian people. We have learned from history over and over again that we need a homeland that is our own, where we can go to if we are threatened in our adopted nation, and that we can defend against aggressors. Who knows, for example, maybe 100 years from now Germans will decide to kill all Turks and Armenians living in Germany, and we will need a safe haven. So a strong but peaceful Armenia is vital for the perpetuation of our people. We will never be big in numbers, and we don't need a giant land. We just need a nice and comfortable land that can be traced back to our ancestors and that can be a safe haven for us in times of turmoil. We have that land now, and it's called Armenia and Artsakh (Nagorno Karabagh). We just need to make meaningful and deep peace with our neighbors, and that will make Armenia and Artsakh a good neighbor for Turkey and Azerbaijan and a safe and good place to live for Armenians.

you said your father is still in turkey. so he must be a turkish citizen. and you were born there.But now you sound like as if you have been outside longer and lost all your roots in anatolia.

ı understand the desire of owning your land, so that you can have safer place when you have a trouble.But my guess is that in the future,there will be very loose borders in group of countries all over the world.and finally all the world will be one someday. this already happened in eu. after the rejection from eu, turkey is serching different alternatives now.ı believe turkey can start this from armenia,by opening the borders,no visa,less taxes, permission of buying lands ,privaleges,other gestures,etc.

already many foreigners buy lands here,we sold many of our componies to foreigners ,even our banks. this is why turkey and its people are changing now.

on the other hand,to accept the AG and apologise is a different story and Karabağ problem is a different story. as long as azeri and armenia dont make a real peace between them, ı dont believe that turkish state can open the borders and start an attack of peace between people.armenia will have to give something to azeris.unfortunately this is something you people dont want to hear. but the reality is so.

[Sako]

The Azeri war is still etched into people's minds and it may be very difficult to resolve. It's happened not so long ago. According to you, for some unknown reason, Armenians have to give something to the Azeri's? It's rather the other way around and even if it wasn't, Armenia is not going to pay the country that started everything, it just doesn't make sense. Azerbaijan is just another country afraid to face the past. For such a large country, you'd be surprised how backwards they are in many respects. Their a different brand of Turks, nothing more.

[Steph]

on the other hand,to accept the AG and apologise is a different story and Karabağ problem is a different story. as long as azeri and armenia dont make a real peace between them, ı dont believe that turkish state can open the borders and start an attack of peace between people.armenia will have to give something to azeris.unfortunately this is something you people dont want to hear. but the reality is so.

In an ideal world, lal, turkey would be able to make decisions regarding the closed border regardless of the Armenian/azeri situation.
Have you any suggestions as to what Armenia should give? What should Artsakh give?
lal, imagine your house has been burgled, the burglars enter your brother's bedroom and kill him. They barricade themselves in but eventually you're able to throw them out. They sit in the street preventing deliveries to your house and it's suggested by your neighbour that the only way the street will be open to you and your family is if you let the burglars/murderers back into the bedroom. Are you going to do that?

[ardakilic]

In an ideal world, lal, turkey would be able to make decisions regarding the closed border regardless of the Armenian/azeri situation.
Have you any suggestions as to what Armenia should give? What should Artsakh give?
lal, imagine your house has been burgled, the burglars enter your brother's bedroom and kill him. They barricade themselves in but eventually you're able to throw them out. They sit in the street preventing deliveries to your house and it's suggested by your neighbour that the only way the street will be open to you and your family is if you let the burglars/murderers back into the bedroom. Are you going to do that?

How can be a just and fair peace between Armenia/Artsakh and Azerbeijan/Turkey in terms of land and border?

[VaheTheGreat(e)]

How can be a just and fair peace between Armenia/Artsakh and Azerbeijan/Turkey in terms of land and border?

Very easily:
azeris give up on Artsakh and turks give up on Western Armenia!
Dont you think that will bring the peace forever?

[Joseph]

Very easily:
azeris give up on Artsakh and turks give up on Western Armenia!
Dont you think that will bring the peace forever?

Artsakh is one thing. I agree with you there. But let's not live in fantasy land. The Turks are not going to just give anything to Armenians and it is unrealistic for Armenians to make territorial demands.

The blockade should be lifted. Armenians should be allowed to travel in what is now eastern Turkey. Armenian antiquities should be rightfully recognized Armenian and the genocide should be recognized though realistically this will take some time. Land demands only make things more difficult and a peaceful solution ever more remote. Right now the Turkish liberals need our help. We can do this by looking past being Turk or Armenian and toward doing the right thing. Making land demands will over Turkey will not lead toward lasting peace but neither will the denial of genocide.

[ardakilic]

Artsakh is one thing. I agree with you there. But let's not live in fantasy land. The Turks are not going to just give anything to Armenians and it is unrealistic for Armenians to make territorial demands.

The blockade should be lifted. Armenians should be allowed to travel in what is now eastern Turkey. Armenian antiquities should be rightfully recognized Armenian and the genocide should be recognized though realistically this will take some time. Land demands only make things more difficult and a peaceful solution ever more remote. Right now the Turkish liberals need our help. We can do this by looking past being Turk or Armenian and toward doing the right thing. Making land demands will over Turkey will not lead toward lasting peace but neither will the denial of genocide.

I agree. Giving Erzurum, Van, Bitlis and other regions to Armenia is not realistic. Also now, these regions' population consists of Turks and Kurds. But Nagorno-Karabagh has to be given to Armenia. Can you go further about that Artsakh? For example, what will happen to the lands of Azerbeijan which is now in the hands of Armenia? 14% of Azeri land, i mean.

Second issue is lifting the blockade and develop normal relations between three countries.

Thirdly, Armenian antiquities in Anatolia. Some small steps are taken on that issue like Akhtamar Church but this is not enough of course.

Fourth, i think that's important, giving compensation. Since many records are destroyed, Turkey should transfer a fund to Armenia in the name of humanitarian aid. Amount should be just for two parties.

Fifth, providing citizenship and migration right for whom are exiled from Anatolia.

Sixth, official recognition of Armenian pain.

[Steph]

I think that some azeri territory has been offered back as part of a final settlement. For this to be given unilaterally prior to agreements would leave Artsakh strategically exposed for both defence and supply.

We could really muddy the waters by looking at the artificial azeri enclave of Nakichevan, this should be returned to Armenia, but probably never will be as it's as empty of Armenians now as Western Armenia is.