Parallel Roads

[ardakilic]

Hmmm, a bit of a Wahabist fundamentalist are we?
Turkish Islam was heavily influenced by Christianity and by Turkic animist beliefs, and image worshiping (and a lot of other things that would get you the chop in Saudi Arabia) is not that unusual.

If you ask personally, no.

Image worshipping? Except Alevites, where and who?

[ardakilic]

He was the only one with clean hands thats one of the reason the allies looked the other way while he consolidated his power base.

Yes, he spent so much effort to persuade allies.

[ardakilic]

This has gone on long enough. You both have made your points and should agree to disagree.

Isnt there something more than agreeing or disagreeing?

[ardakilic]

Originally Posted by lal View Post
my boyfriend would turn your face into a monkey if you talked like this with us.if you want, ı can give you myreal adress. ım serious.

May I ask a silly question? Why that histerical woman is not banned yet? Any political reasones? Are we allying with kemalists?
She has offended my friend, I do not like it!

No, i dont want her to be banned. Let us see more Kemalists' scandal.... and a bit two-faced double standard.

[lal]

No, i dont want her to be banned. Let us see more Kemalists' scandal.... and a bit two-faced double standard.

yes you want me to be banned.you bring this lots of times here with big letters to get the attention of the boss. but, you know that ı didnt insult you. it is not my style to insult anybody. ı am a 48 kg person. ı have no physical power either.

ı said,you talk as a militant, full of hatered against ataturk and turkish republic, you also claim that many people think like you, in the country. this is the biggest lie.so ı offered you to go out and try to talk your views openly. and lets see what will happen to you. average turks are like my boyfriend. and we all know what would happen to you then.

we must be free to have different world views. you dont represent turkey, ı dont represent turkey either. turkey is full of uneducated, easily manipulated islamic,ignorant villager type people who are unable to think anything.

ı am not a kemalist. all ı want is to live in a modern,rich and free turkey. kemalizm is a fachist ideology.kemalizm dont bring richness or freedom. my love towards atatürk is like loving my flag. this by itself is not nationalizm.

ı respect armenians. ı joined the protest of hrant, ı signed the apology in the second day, ı try to explain the pain of armenians to everybody ı meet in real life, believe it or not, ı even fight for this issue with people. because ı believe that turks and turkish republic owe this apology to armenians. we need to clean ourselves.

my difference from you is, ı dont think this apology need to be the result of a huge change of political rejection of past. this must be a moral apology. and turkey must try to cure the pain.

ı am also not a azeri fan. ı know that this is not directly related to the subject. but ı only wonder in real politics how turkey can do gestures without loosing azerbeycan this time.

and yes, like steph said, in negative way, ı do have a hippy kind of character.ı really believe in the power of love.

lal

[ardakilic]

yes you want me to be banned.you bring this lots of times here with big letters to get the attention of the boss.

Who cares you are banned or not?

but, you know that ı didnt insult you. it is not my style to insult anybody. ı am a 48 kg person. ı have no physical power either.

Yeah, "terrorist" is not an insult. Or vomiting hatred too. Threating is also.

ı said,you talk as a militant, full of hatered against ataturk and turkish republic,

Kemal is not spinach so hating or adoring is non-sense. He was a historical figure and i asked some questions. All you do is chatting about my hatred. Say i am full of hatred... What is your respond to my questions?

you also claim that many people think like you, in the country. this is the biggest lie.

For the third time i am telling the same thing: I didnot cliam many people think like me. This would be so arrogant claim. I asked a simple question again and again didnt get any respond: Why Kemal's party couldnt win a free and fair election till now?

turkey is full of uneducated, easily manipulated islamic,ignorant villager type people who are unable to think anything.

Maybe, but i am sure that they are more philanthropic than Kemalist bourgeoisie.

ı am not a kemalist. all ı want is to live in a modern,rich and free turkey. kemalizm is a fachist ideology.kemalizm dont bring richness or freedom. my love towards atatürk is like loving my flag. this by itself is not nationalizm.

I am enlightened.

ı respect armenians. ı joined the protest of hrant, ı signed the apology in the second day, ı try to explain the pain of armenians to everybody ı meet in real life

OK, i will call Mr. Edward Nalbandian to request him nominate you peace prize.

ı really believe in the power of love.

Does this "power of love" mean powerful muscles of your boyfriend?

[lal]

Who cares you are banned or not?



For the third time i am telling the same thing: I didnot cliam many people think like me. This would be so arrogant claim. I asked a simple question again and again didnt get any respond: Why Kemal's party couldnt win a free and fair election till now?

your words,

You assume "great majority of Turks love and admire Kemal" but this is not true. You again call me traitor or extremist but i present a very concrete and objective phenomena.

[ardakilic]

your words,

You assume "great majority of Turks love and admire Kemal" but this is not true. You again call me traitor or extremist but i present a very concrete and objective phenomena.

Oh, finally you have begun talking in logic.

Yes, great majority of Turks don't admire Kemal. Between hate and admire, there are lots of emotional situations.

What Turks feel about Kemal is so obvious when TCF and SF founded. I advice you to read what happened Fethi Okyar's Izmir meeting for example. Or how many "rebellions" exploded between 1923-1938? Or how many people were hanged at the hands of Kemal's executioners in Independence Courts? Or memories of Kemal's health minister and Lausanne delegate which is still banned in Turkey now?

Does this mean something? In first free and fair election, in May 1950, Kemal's party could only take 69 seats while opposition parties took 418? In the second, 1954, Kemalists took only 30 while others had 505?

Does it mean something that in Kemal's lifetime there wasnt any election but deputies were assigned by him?

[lal]

Oh, finally you have begun talking in logic.

Yes, great majority of Turks don't admire Kemal. Between hate and admire, there are lots of emotional situations.

What Turks feel about Kemal is so obvious when TCF and SF founded. I advice you to read what happened Fethi Okyar's Izmir meeting for example. Or how many "rebellions" exploded between 1923-1938? Or how many people were hanged at the hands of Kemal's executioners in Independence Courts? Or memories of Kemal's health minister and Lausanne delegate which is still banned in Turkey now?

Does this mean something? In first free and fair election, in May 1950, Kemal's party could only take 69 seats while opposition parties took 418? In the second, 1954, Kemalists took only 30 while others had 505?

Does it mean something that in Kemal's lifetime there wasnt any election but deputies were assigned by him?

atatürk was dead in 1938.it was not possible to have free elections, human rights etc in such a chaos. after he died ,so called kemalizm does not represent atatürks politics. you cant know how would be if he was alive.

ı dont believe that you serve to the interests of armenian people by offering such radical things. maybe ım a much less informed and educated person about these issues than you are, but my simple approach to the subject and my sincere and real efforts are much more practical and effective than yours.

like joseph said, we need to stop this dog fight here. ı know you will be the one who will write the last post. so send one more and lets stop here.ı wont answer.

lal

[ardakilic]

atatürk was dead in 1938.it was not possible to have free elections, human rights etc in such a chaos. after he died ,so called kemalizm does not represent atatürks politics. you cant know how would be if he was alive.

ı dont believe that you serve to the interests of armenian people by offering such radical things. maybe ım a much less informed and educated person about these issues than you are, but my simple approach to the subject and my sincere and real efforts are much more practical and effective than yours.

like joseph said, we need to stop this dog fight here. ı know you will be the one who will write the last post. so send one more and lets stop here.ı wont answer.

lal

This is not a fight of dogs. I state historical facts but your answer only includes your thingo's muscles.

This is the main cleavage of 20th century Turkish history. There were two tendency in Ittihadists: Liberals and nationalists. And all we know that nationalist wing purged liberals. See what happened? Idiocity in joining WW-1, genocides and calamity of many nations, including Armenians, Greeks, Kurds and Turks.

We confront same two tendency in Kemalism: again nationalist wing in the leadership of Kemal purged other wing(s). See what happened? Your false god presented us Kurd "question", religion "question", democracy "question"...

Yes, you dont know. Because you are educated Kemal's lifetime was a Golden Age, and you miss that time as a believer misses prophets time. But it isnot.

If you claim there was chaos (it is false) and for the reason of this chaos there was no human right (it is false too), we can easily rationalize and legalize AG because there were much more chaos in the era of WW-1.

If you claim Turkish nation is not ready for democracy at that time, remember that in 1908 only in Istanbul only about women right there were 29 societies. In whole Anatolia, there were more than 70 Armenian newspapers. We dont know even now how many parties founded in 1908.

These are just to legalize his bloody dictatorship.

For Zeus's sake, what is radical?

Appendix:

Fallacy of Argument to Moderation

aka: Argumentum ad temperantiam, middle ground, gray fallacy, golden mean fallacy

Argument to moderation is a logical fallacy which asserts that a compromise between two position is correct because the two mentioned positions are extreme and radical.