Parallel Roads

[ardakilic]

Arda, believe it or not, I'm tired of having everyone riding in the wrong direction. Can we start something and finish it the way we intended? Bell might be saying a few things wrong but the truth is there is a lot mixed up in the Muslim culture. Blaming and reducing everyone won't help though, I completely agree but doubt that everything we were saying was reducing Islam.

Tell me what you need help with and I'll try to help Arda but let's stay on topic and this won't happen. This is the second/third time I'm trying to start something and the conversation goes somewhere else. Guys, please, this really shows we can't do anything together. We just talk in the air.

I tried Saco Jan, i tried...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saco
OK, my question not only to Arda but to Turkey itself (so all Turkish members can reply or someone that knows Turkey well). What is the greatest technical problem(s) (transport, etc.) in Turkey?

Nobody answered and duty remained on me.

I don't think a significant technical problem occurs. Of course there can happen something... but, hmmmm, it doesnt come my mind any.

One question Saco; is there any social manner in Armenia which we mustnot do? What can be seen as impoliteness? Which points sould we be careful about if we visit?

[Sako]

I tried Saco Jan, i tried...

I don't really understand what you tried, Arda, or what it is that upsets you so much now. I'm not telepathic , sorry. You have to tell me what's going on before I can answer or try to help which I always look forward to.

One question Saco: is there any social manner in Armenia which we mustnot do? What can be seen as impoliteness? Which points sould we be careful about if we visit?

I'd say talking loud or looking at people in the wrong way. Armenians have the little habit of starting large problems from something small, lol. I'd say there aren't really any serious guidelines. You just have to remember that many Armenians have lot's of ego floating in their insides so just be normal and casual and don't be talking too big or anything in fights or otherwise even in normal conversations. It's basically a game of respect, you act properly and others will too. It's pretty normal, don't get the wrong idea. I just mentioned the habit many Armenians have. Also, never use impolite language, this could lead to big problems especially if you can't back what you say. Armenians also have a few other habits that you can only understand through experience. It's like that in every country my friend, you have to simply get used to the country and you'll understand what to do and how to do it. Armenia isn't a very strict country or anything. You simply have to learn how to converse with people which is mostly a little interesting when it comes to talking with grumpy people. You just shouldn't get offended very easily. Armenians sometimes have the habit of searching for a reason to start a fight. Be yourself basically but remember that your in Armenia.

[ardakilic]

I don't really understand what you tried

I tried to be obediant the subject and heading of thread.

Arda, or what it is that upsets you so much now.

I explained, reductionism. Anyway, no need to make it longer.

So, thanks for the guide about social manner in Armenia. I think it is not so difficult to be a good boy

[lal]

Saco, i am really tired and sick about this kind of reductionism.

Reduce all Muslims to blood-thirsty butchers, reduce all women wearing headscarf to bigots, reduce all gays to immoral prostitutes coming from Sodome, reduce Christians, reduce communists, reduce Armenians, reduce everything to what you want... Somebody should help me!

saco and arda,

women must be able to go to a university with headcovers. ı dont care if women even work in government offices with headcovers. or if we declare fridays holiday or change our alphabet to arabic.

if islam was this much, ı still would have accepted it as a natural human right.

ı wanted to find sprituel things when ı read the kuran. ı only found degraded women, and many many encouragement to fight and kill and invade, take slaves, steal women etc. try to convert all nonmuslims to islam by every methods.kuran is full of allahs threats against humans. if kurans 1/3 is about being a good human, really 2/3 of it is about being a good barbarian.

listen the words of ottomans mehter march. it summarizes islamic concept.

ı repeat it one more time. in anatolia ,religons fought. islam and christianity. even turk's definition came after this fight.

but religons are needed to control the masses.we ordinary people will be always proud of belonging to something without knowing the taste of real independence. when we are ordered to fight or to hate, we will do that. because our brains are programmed to be good members of the group that we belong to.

so , any turk, who is a good muslim will never even come close to understand the AG .arda is a very bad turk. and ı am not even a turk.

the reason why some other muslims like arabs and iranians have sympathy to armenians is a different story. turks are not liked by arabic and iranian leaders because of the turkish states refusal of islam as a political institutue which they use very offen.

but the more we become islamists, the more they like us now. and ı advise no armenians to trust any muslim country they live in. if needed, those good muslims will easily imitate their old masters.

and finally, after very bloody hundreds of years of wars,by rewriting their book many times, christians succeeded to reduce it a book between man and god. but arabs always fiercely defended that kuran is original ,allahs words and even a word cant be changed. so we have no chance left to make reform and throw the all many illogical versus out.so we have no chance to civilise.

and you know what ı wonder. kuran offeres 40 hoories to good muslim men. but what allah offers best to good women is to be one of those 40 hoories.

ı cant understand how can the creator of universe ,so much interested how ı dress.

shame on allah.

[ardakilic]

saco and arda,

women must be able to go to a university with headcovers. ı dont care if women even work in government offices with headcovers. or if we declare fridays holiday or change our alphabet to arabic.

Oh lal,

This is slippery slope. Just i defend as a right is going university without any restriction on adult young people's clothes.

[ardakilic]

arda is a very bad turk. and ı am not even a turk.

Funny joke (no pun intended, really). To be a Turk just means for me to speak in Turkish as a native language. No more no less.

the reason why some other muslims like arabs and iranians [...]

but arabs always [...]

I always find these kind of sentences dangerous like "Arabs are ...", "Patagonians are..." etc.

ı cant understand how can the creator of universe ,so much interested how ı dress.

Very nice question!

[lal]

I always find these kind of sentences dangerous like "Arabs are ...", "Patagonians are..." etc.

ı meant some arab and some iranian LEADERS,certainly not the people. but arab and iranian people just like kurds and turks are also infected by islamic virus.

ı am not a free person in turkey not even among my family.

ı do not have an equal social life with men.
ı do not have equal rights with muslims. they can be offended from any small acts or words even from my dress.but ı cant be offended by their bloody animal slaughters for example.
ı have no trust to my state. ı suspect everything they say about anything.
rejection of AG is like making us look like being a bad man in the movies.
rejection of a part of our own peoples culture is also ridiculus.but ı dont mean islamic satanist cult.

ı dont aprove greeks burning everywhere,for one single murder. ı wonder what they would do if they were turkish.

ı plan to leave this country, if ı can someday.

[ardakilic]

ı am not a free person in turkey not even among my family.

ı do not have an equal social life with men.
ı do not have equal rights with muslims. they can be offended from any small acts or words even from my dress.but ı cant be offended by their bloody animal slaughters for example.
ı have no trust to my state. ı suspect everything they say about anything.

ı plan to leave this country, if ı can someday.

You justly react against some absurd things. But on this reaction, we should separate the grain from the chaff.

[Sako]

I wanted to find sprituel things when ı read the kuran. ı only found degraded women, and many many encouragement to fight and kill and invade, take slaves, steal women etc. try to convert all nonmuslims to islam by every methods.kuran is full of allahs threats against humans. if kurans 1/3 is about being a good human, really 2/3 of it is about being a good barbarian.

I don’t know what to say Lal but believe me, I have lived in many, many, many Muslim environments and there were many, many good Muslims. I have a great Muslim friend here in Armenia, studying to become a doctor. I wouldn’t trade him for anyone, Lal. There aren’t only a few good Muslims, don’t try to say that. So much extremism comes from the followers not the Koran alone. You have to understand that.

listen the words of ottomans mehter march. it summarizes islamic concept.

I don’t really believe much of what Turks believe or say, it’s really messed up there so I suggest you don’t make ALL your judgments by simply looking at Turkish citizens.

but religons are needed to control the masses.we ordinary people will be always proud of belonging to something without knowing the taste of real independence. when we are ordered to fight or to hate, we will do that. because our brains are programmed to be good members of the group that we belong to.

Not everywhere Lal, don’t be so hateful although I understand exactly what you’re talking about.

so, any turk, who is a good muslim will never even come close to understand the AG .arda is a very bad turk. and ı am not even a turk.

Woa, woa, Lal, please, don’t say things like that. Let’s all calm down.

but the more we become islamists, the more they like us now. and ı advise no armenians to trust any muslim country they live in. if needed, those good muslims will easily imitate their old masters.

This is a very good point but don’t judge the book by its cover. Just because there are Muslims that set a bad example, it doesn’t mean their ALL bad. It may sound like I’m a Muslim, lol, but it’s nothing like that, I’ve just had the great opportunity to talk and have relationships with many, many different types of people. So don’t think you’re the only one that’s seen a lot, Lal.

and finally, after very bloody hundreds of years of wars,by rewriting their book many times, christians succeeded to reduce it a book between man and god.

Like it wasn’t that way in the beginning. Lal, people changed the Bible, saw it didn’t work out and eventually more or less changed it back. This changing has happened, yes, but still, the roots were and are the same but people still don’t follow the rules. Many, even if Jesus himself came down to this Earth, wouldn’t believe in or follow him. This world has gone through a lot but still, there has and there will always be good and bad sides, even in the Muslim community. Don’t be so critical and remember that man is capable of doing a lot. Don’t blame religion all the time.

but arabs always fiercely defended that kuran is original ,allahs words and even a word cant be changed. so we have no chance left to make reform and throw the all many illogical versus out.so we have no chance to civilise.

I have to agree here as well but still, I tell you many are great proper Muslims. You talk to them and you get a whole different picture of a Muslim. What book do you think they follow? The follower, he/she, is the one that makes the choices 90% of the time.

and you know what ı wonder. kuran offeres 40 hoories to good muslim men. but what allah offers best to good women is to be one of those 40 hoories.

I actually find this strange as well, I won’t lie.

ı cant understand how can the creator of universe, so much interested how ı dress.

90% (if not 100%) of this came from the Muslim community, not the Koran. Yes, in the Koran there are strict rules, I haven’t read much, but still, the Muslims have changed and taken advantage of a lot of verses.

Shame on Allah.

Lal, do you accept the fact that God is one? How can you say this? If a Buddhist does something wrong, do I say shame on Buddha? The Koran is strict but the Muslims have done a lot. I doubt completely that the Koran started out the way it is now. Anyways, you have no right to say this, sorry Lal, I can’t stand by your side on this particular point.

I tried to be obediant the subject and heading of thread.

Oh, I misunderstood you there for a second Arda. And thanks for trying, it means a lot to me.

So, thanks for the guide about social manner in Armenia. I think it is not so difficult to be a good boy.

Hey, anytime, if only many others could be a nice boy too in the world, lol.

ı am not a free person in turkey not even among my family.

ı do not have an equal social life with men.
ı do not have equal rights with muslims. they can be offended from any small acts or words even from my dress.but ı cant be offended by their bloody animal slaughters for example.
ı have no trust to my state. ı suspect everything they say about anything.
rejection of AG is like making us look like being a bad man in the movies.
rejection of a part of our own peoples culture is also ridiculus.but ı dont mean islamic satanist cult.

ı dont aprove greeks burning everywhere,for one single murder. ı wonder what they would do if they were turkish.

ı plan to leave this country, if ı can someday.

Lal Jan, and after saying all this, you ask Armenians to come to Turkey? In the last thread, this was my point.

[lal]

Lal Jan, and after saying all this, you ask Armenians to come to Turkey? In the last thread, this was my point.

because the battle ground is anatolia not america. you have to come into the brains of turks ,not americans. americans will give you a very small temporary relief. your real desire must be a demand from turks. they must admit that armenians didnt deserve such a terrible total destruction.they were good people.

you know why ı write here. not because ı love armenians too much, but ı feel a foreigner in my own country, so much that ı can only ally with people who also suffer for other reasons.and if ı talk like this openly here,im sure ı go to the jail.

islamic culture, nationalist culture, warrior culture ,lacking of all human rights are not suitable for me. either everybody, including armenians come here get together and we openly and peacefully show ourselves and start a democratic fight or we just accept the loosing and just bark like we do in the nets endlessly.

today ım not in my good mood, ım depresive and write all pessimist things. ım sorry.