Parallel Roads

[ardakilic]

Haha, thank you Arda, same here, I'd love to hug my Turkish friends too but other then that ...

If Turkish state only recognizes AG, there are other genocides to be recognized: Assyrian, Greek, Dersim...

Fight is continuing.

Special and personal note: I would want to make a portrait of Tehlirian and hang in a public place. I know, even a century later, it is impossible but maybe after recognition, it will be possible.

[lal]

If Turkish state only recognizes AG, there are other genocides to be recognized: Assyrian, Greek, Dersim...

Fight is continuing.

Special and personal note: I would want to make a portrait of Tehlirian and hang in a public place. I know, even a century later, it is impossible but maybe after recognition, it will be possible.

ı want to know something. when your fight finishes and assyrian,kurd, greek genocides are also accepted and their lands given to them, where are you going to be living ,in armenia?

ı think if turkish state is in the extreme side, you sure are in the other extreme side. extreme sides are always dangerous and not to the good of people.not even good for armenians. because you give those nationalist good reasons to be so wild. you give reasons for turkish military to spend so much in such a poor country.anybody who reads you can react.

my solution is no fights. real democracy, than slowly naturally no visa, easier borders and sympatyh and friendship. and if possible living side by side again.
no western armenia, no northern kurdistan, no pontus. but learning to live all together with all colours in the same time in the democratic republic of anatolia.

win win solution. nobody looses.

[VaheTheGreat(e)]

ı want to know something. when your fight finishes and assyrian,kurd, greek genocides are also accepted and their lands given to them, where are you going to be living ,in armenia?

ı think if turkish state is in the extreme side, you sure are in the other extreme side. extreme sides are always dangerous and not to the good of people.not even good for armenians. because you give those nationalist good reasons to be so wild. you give reasons for turkish military to spend so much in such a poor country.anybody who reads you can react.

my solution is no fights. real democracy, than slowly naturally no visa, easier borders and sympatyh and friendship. and if possible living side by side again.
no western armenia, no northern kurdistan, no pontus. but learning to live all together with all colours in the same time in the democratic republic of anatolia.

win win solution. nobody looses.

He will be living happily where he lives-in Istambul (Constantinople or Pols) It was built by Byzantines and always dominated by Armenian and Greek culture. Why it must be necessarily part of turkey?
There is no democracy without fight for it, no dictatorship has gave up without fight. Anatolian Republic? Do you mean lets just change the name of turkey and leave the rest as it is?

[Joseph]

ı want to know something. when your fight finishes and assyrian,kurd, greek genocides are also accepted and their lands given to them, where are you going to be living ,in armenia?

ı think if turkish state is in the extreme side, you sure are in the other extreme side. extreme sides are always dangerous and not to the good of people.not even good for armenians. because you give those nationalist good reasons to be so wild. you give reasons for turkish military to spend so much in such a poor country.anybody who reads you can react.

my solution is no fights. real democracy, than slowly naturally no visa, easier borders and sympatyh and friendship. and if possible living side by side again.
no western armenia, no northern kurdistan, no pontus. but learning to live all together with all colours in the same time in the democratic republic of anatolia.

win win solution. nobody looses.

All I can say personally, as an Armenian is that I want acknowledgment of the truth. We cannot bring back the dead and we know logically that no land will ever be granted. It might be a dream to some but is not going to occur. Most Armenians, who are btw moderate, feel this way. Without acknowledgment relations will never be normal because there is no basis to trust Turkey/Turks in the future without it.

Here are the things to consider:

1. Armenians should be able to travel freely to Turkey to visit ancient sites, churches, ruins, etc. Said sites should be correctly labeled as "Armenian" if indeed that is what they are and not "Byzantine". It seems that official Turkey views almost any mention of Armenians as lending weight to Armenian land claims. They need to lose the paranoia. Armenians have 4,000 year history in those lands so we still feel a connection today. The bottomline is that no one, not the UN, US, EU, Armenia etc is going to force Turkey to relinquish territory to Armenia. Armenia has acknowledged as much.

2. Education is going to have to change in Turkey. There is almost no mention of Armenians in Turkish textbooks, glossing over 4,000 years of Armenians presence, except during the latter decline of the Ottoman Empire, in which case Armenians are shown turncoats and traitors. Turkey needs a neutral, honest assesment of the past. It will take decades to rid the damage that has been done and decades for attitudes to change but the process should start soon.

3. The border should be open. Turkey wants to show itself as a bastion of democracy, diplomacy and neutrality in the region and incessantly makes claims that they do not base decisions on race, culture. They must prove it. The border should be open. Both Turkey and Armenia will benefit from open borders economically and diplomatically. Turkey cannot be an honest-broker if it is not neutral between Azerbaijan and Armenia; Russia becomes the winner.

4. Official Diplomatic relations should start between Turkey and Armenia. If India and pakistan, North Korea and South Korea, etc can exchange ambassadors, then so should we. Cultural exchange is all well and good but can only go so far. Having relations can assist in having issues large and small solved. Conducting relations through the press does not work.


For me, this is not about land or money. I agree that when some Armenians makes these demands it further alienates Turkey. At the same time, the land of our ancestors is gone from us; where our church, language, culture was founded and 4,000 years of roots ripped out of the ground. It would be nice for the facade to be eliminated and for Turkey/Turks to realize this.

It is also an issue that is important to Turkey. Democratization and liberalization is good for all of us. To confront the past will help heal the wounds. Turkey has again taken the wrong path with the Kurds. If the genocide had been acknowledged, perhaps there would not be a current conflict in the Southeast.

[lal]

He will be leaving happily where he lives-in Istambul (Constantinople or Pols) It was built by Byzantines and always dominated by Armenian and Greek culture. Why it must be necessarily part of turkey?
There is no democracy with ought fight for it, no dictatorship has gave up with ought fight. Anatolian Republic? Do you mean lets just change the name of turkey and leave the rest as it is?

thank you for your answer mr vahe. ı think you made the situation very clear for me.
and this is exactly what ı mean when ı say , ım confused. you summarized ,what ı couldnt do.you are dreaming to get lands back. and by joining the apology ı simply dont want to be in your side. you will have to get your lands back ,by fighting and lots of blood. ım sure it would be very easy for great armenia to invade little turkey,just like you did in azerbeycan. actually maybe you can simply walk inside.but you must know that you dont get armenian lands back in a istanbul fish restaurants with turkish ladies. dont expect me or ı bet 90% of the signers together with you in this mission. No dinner with you.

[lal]

All I can say personally, as an Armenian is that I want acknowledgment of the truth. We cannot bring back the dead and we know logically that no land will ever be granted. It might be a dream to some but is not going to occur. Most Armenians, who are btw moderate, feel this way. Without acknowledgment relations will never be normal because there is no basis to trust Turkey/Turks in the future without it.

Here are the things to consider:

1. Armenians should be able to travel freely to Turkey to visit ancient sites, churches, ruins, etc. Said sites should be correctly labeled as "Armenian" if indeed that is what they are and not "Byzantine". It seems that official Turkey views almost any mention of Armenians as lending weight to Armenian land claims. They need to lose the paranoia. Armenians have 4,000 year history in those lands so we still feel a connection today. The bottomline is that no one, not the UN, US, EU, Armenia etc is going to force Turkey to relinquish territory to Armenia. Armenia has acknowledged as much.

2. Education is going to have to change in Turkey. There is almost no mention of Armenians in Turkish textbooks, glossing over 4,000 years of Armenians presence, except during the latter decline of the Ottoman Empire, in which case Armenians are shown turncoats and traitors. Turkey needs a neutral, honest assesment of the past. It will take decades to rid the damage that has been done and decades for attitudes to change but the process should start soon.

3. The border should be open. Turkey wants to show itself as a bastion of democracy, diplomacy and neutrality in the region and incessantly makes claims that they do not base decisions on race, culture. They must prove it. The border should be open. Both Turkey and Armenia will benefit from open borders economically and diplomatically. Turkey cannot be an honest-broker if it is not neutral between Azerbaijan and Armenia; Russia becomes the winner.

4. Official Diplomatic relations should start between Turkey and Armenia. If India and pakistan, North Korea and South Korea, etc can exchange ambassadors, then so should we. Cultural exchange is all well and good but can only go so far. Having relations can assist in having issues large and small solved. Conducting relations through the press does not work.


For me, this is not about land or money. I agree that when some Armenians makes these demands it further alienates Turkey. At the same time, the land of our ancestors is gone from us; where our church, language, culture was founded and 4,000 years of roots ripped out of the ground. It would be nice for the facade to be eliminated and for Turkey/Turks to realize this.

It is also an issue that is important to Turkey. Democratization and liberalization is good for all of us. To confront the past will help heal the wounds. Turkey has again taken the wrong path with the Kurds. If the genocide had been acknowledged, perhaps there would not be a current conflict in the Southeast.

mr joseph, ı always respect you. everything you say is logical. and armenians certainly deserve everything you wrote. and this is what ı want also. but if armenians want only as much as you write ,you need to eliminate the provocaters. they work for turkish nationalists. also mr.arda kinds are not working for armenians.

ı only can ask one thing from you. a peace with azerbeycan. dont ask me how. you do it. than ı am working for you in this country,for your very rightful demands,till ı die, dear joseph.

[Joseph]

mr joseph, ı always respect you. everything you say is logical. and armenians certainly deserve everything you wrote. and this is what ı want also. but if armenians want only as much as you write ,you need to eliminate the provocaters. they work for turkish nationalists. also mr.arda kinds are not working for armenians.

ı only can ask one thing from you. a peace with azerbeycan. dont ask me how. you do it. than ı am working for you in this country,for your very rightful demands,till ı die, dear joseph.

Thanks you for your kind words. Yes, there are ultra-nationalists on both sides and they poison the atmosphere.

We're going to be waiting a long time for a peace between Armenia and Azerbaijan. The Armenians have made many concessions which has been acknowledged by the co-chairs of the Minsk Group of the OSCE but the Azeris have repeatedly rejected these and are taking maximalist position. They seem to want another war. For them it is a conflict of pride while for Armenia it is survival.

[lal]

Thanks you for your kind words. Yes, there are ultra-nationalists on both sides and they poison the atmosphere.

We're going t be waiting a long time for a peace between Armenia and Azerbaijan. The Armenians have made many concessions which has been ackonledged by the co-chairs of the Minsk Group of the OSCE but the Azeris have repeatedly rejected these and are taking maximalist position. They seem to want another war. For them it is a conflict of pride while for Armenia it is survival.

like ı said,ı dont know the conflict very well, and ım not much interested either.but if azerbeycan and armenia agrees on something and peace comes, ı can almost guarantee you that everything you wrote above will happen very fastly. ı feel that turkish people started to realise what happened to armenians. turks are coming very close to accept it. and this will not take very long as you say. but you need to help it. solve your problem with azerbeycan, than you will be 100/%right. we will have no face the history.

[VaheTheGreat(e)]

like ı said,ı dont know the conflict very well, and ım not much interested either.but if azerbeycan and armenia agrees on something and peace comes, ı can almost guarantee you that everything you wrote above will happen very fastly. ı feel that turkish people started to realise what happened to armenians. turks are coming very close to accept it. and this will not take very long as you say. but you need to help it. solve your problem with azerbeycan, than you will be 100/%right. we will have no face the history.

So you "don’t know the conflict very well" and "not much interested either" but you insist on solution of Azeri problem? Why? If you do not know and do not interested? Why you are so much in this question?

[lal]

So you "don’t know the conflict very well" and "not much interested either" but you insist on solution of Azeri problem? Why? If you do not know and do not interested? Why you are so much in this question?

because ım not trying to be rightful about the conflict. ı only try to think pragmatic.if turkey opens the borders with armenia , azerbeycan will punish economicly turkey. and they are more important economicly than armenia . ı wish these borders were never closed in the first place, than we wouldnt have such a difficult problem.it was a very stupid decision.

second turkish nationalist obviously use this against armenians.

and ı dont say give karabağ to azerbeycan. for example azeris can turn back to karabağ and it can be a independent country. or maybe armenia can give some empty mountains to azeris . ı dont know.

ı want peace,not because ı love azeris but because ı know that this is a great obstacle.