Parallel Roads

[ardakilic]

ı will not answer your words about ATATÜRK.

Why?

Any historical fact? Any information? An thesis? Any supporting idea? Any clue? Any evidence? Any argument? Any proposition? Any base?

[hitite]

Hitler tells Turkish committee (leading by Falih Rifki) that "My first teacher is Il-Duce and his teacher was Kemal".

I have not read about this. However it would be a pretty good argument to discuss if the policies of Ataturk were indeed fascist if we take the word in its strict poltical sense. Fascism has come to be a cuss word and is used by everybody today to swear at a country or political figure, even at your boss. But centralism, isolationaism, authoritarianism, stateism were in fact the norm in the first years of the country and which all have their firm place in fascism in its literal meaning.

However if you are implying that Hitler (and Mussolini) learned how to commit Genocide from Atatürk then you should also maybe state that he was a child molestor and pin up that poster of him kicking a dead kid on the street that turned out to be an Armenian fake.

[lal]

You don't have to think like Steph and Arda but simply stop idolizing him. That is wrong. He wasn't a God. Even a great hero shouldn't be idolizied. Research him, learn about who he was, work it out yourself, and stop calling anyone that doesn't like Ataturk traitors. In the long run though, Ataturk has nothing to do with accepting the Genocide. He is a completely different story but I'm sure that after the AG issue is cleared up, a lot of lies will vanish and we will see who was right and who was wrong. Until then, don't be completely sure about anything or anyone, especially a founder who was the leader in the time of the Genocide. I'm not saying he was a demon, I'm just saying let's not get ahead of ourselves, can you do that for me or am I asking too much?



We don't need this to happen to get a good result. This will naturally happen after the AG issue is cleared up.



NO ONE asked you or anyone else to do that Lal. No one is really relating anything to Ataturk actually, or are we guys? I don't think that plays a serious role in accepting the AG.



And I told you a hundred times why this won't happen. This is more difficult then you think Lal. It seems you didn't understand exactly why after all I've written.

well, ı told you. ı am not that intelligent. maybe if you repeat 10 times ı can understand.

instead of talking as if we are big people who can solve all the problems between us, as an ordinary turk what can ı do to make you happy about AG.

ı mean ı signed the apology, although ı was very scared in the beginning nothing happened. thats good.what else can ı do ?

ı try to talk to people. nobody listens me. ı shouldnt say this, but ı discovered that even my boyfriend cant feel and think the way ı think and feel. so what can ı do?

you are right. atatürk must be seperated from this issue. you know my family is from the same city of atatürk. we all adore him. ı dont even care what he is.he is my idol.some people pray to muhammed , cant ı pray to atatürk? but ı want to tell you, ı also love armenians. ı try, but ı cant feel the same warmness to kurds or even to azeris. armenians for me are special people.isnt that strange. ım sure ı have some armenian blood also.

arkadaşın lal.

[ardakilic]

I have not read about this. However it would be a pretty good argument to discuss if the policies of Ataturk were indeed fascist if we take the word in its strict poltical sense. Fascism has come to be a cuss word and is used by everybody today to swear at a country or political figure, even at your boss. But centralism, isolationaism, authoritarianism, stateism were in fact the norm in the first years of the country and which all have their firm place in fascism in its literal meaning.

However if you are implying that Hitler (and Mussolini) learned how to commit Genocide from Atatürk then you should also maybe state that he was a child molestor and pin up that poster of him kicking a dead kid on the street that turned out to be an Armenian fake.

No, i use the term fascist in its rigor and restricted political science meaning. I never claimed something on Kemal's personal features because i am not interested how much he drank or whom with he slept.

And about Hitler visitor Kemalist committe:

"Queue has come to our committe. His [Hitler] blue eyes sight were soft and sweet: -His first student was Mussolini and second one is me."

Falih Rıfkı Atay, Mustafa Kemal'in Mütareke Defteri, p. 85

[ardakilic]

ı dont even care what he is.he is my idol.some people pray to muhammed , cant ı pray to atatürk?

Bingo! That's the question. Has somebody mentioned about religious fanaticism and zealotry? See the hypocricy...

I thought Kemal-worshippers remained in 1930s.

And a note: No Muslim pray to prophet Mohammad. Praying and/or worshipping, even bowing in front of a mortal human is prohibited in Islam.

[lal]

Why?

Any historical fact? Any information? An thesis? Any supporting idea? Any clue? Any evidence? Any argument? Any proposition? Any base?

Where is your facts, information, thesis, you only talk and talk. no sources or you send only sevan nişanyan as a source ,a person who poured his urine onto his wife.ı wonder why you are so much fan of him...

great majority like %90 of the foreign sources about atatürk writes very beautiful things about him. ı tried in google, you do that, you will see.

you talk as if you know everything well. even kuran..you speak arabic?you condemn great atatürk but at the same time you respect muhammeds followers, yes human rights. but we,modern people have no human rights. ı see.

and ım not a kemalist. my family always voted for chp, but not me. ı cant vote. nobody represents me. but ı can guess who you vote for. you hate yourself dont you?

[ardakilic]

Where is your facts, information, thesis, you only talk and talk. no sources or you send only sevan nişanyan as a source ,a person who poured his urine onto his wife.ı wonder why you are so much fan of him...

great majority like %90 of the foreign sources about atatürk writes very beautiful things about him. ı tried in google, you do that, you will see.

you talk as if you know everything well. even kuran..you speak arabic?you condemn great atatürk but at the same time you respect muhammeds followers, yes human rights. but we,modern people have no human rights. ı see.

and ım not a kemalist. my family always voted for chp, but not me. ı cant vote. nobody represents me. but ı can guess who you vote for. you hate yourself dont you?

Argumentum ad hominem when having nothing.

Several times, i asked a question and once again:

-Why did Kemal shelter and protect Genocide commiters?

And i am repeating my questions:

- Why Kemal assasinated/tried to eliminate who have a single opposition about his dictatorship?
- Why Kemal exiled, massacred Kurdish people?
- Why Kemals erected his statue everywhere?

[ardakilic]

no sources or you send only sevan nişanyan as a source

I didnt imply Nisanyan as a source. Just requested you to read him.

a person who poured his urine onto his wife

Argumentum ad hominem fallacy. This doesnot make his propositions invalid.

ı wonder why you are so much fan of him...

Straw-man fallacy. I stated nothing about being a fan of him.

great majority like %90 of the foreign sources about atatürk writes very beautiful things about him.

Appeal to undefined authority fallacy.

you talk as if you know everything well. even kuran..you speak arabic?you condemn great atatürk

Argumentum ad hominem fallacy again. I didnt mention borders of myknowledge. And also irrelevancy fallacy; there is no relation between the issue we have been talking and Arabic and Qoran.

yes human rights. but we,modern people have no human rights. ı see.

Again straw-man fallacy. I didnt propose you "moderns" dont have any right. And this is irrelevant to my questions. Red herring fallacy also. And please read the background text: We are moderns, those uncivilized Muslims arent. So how can they have rights when we exist?

but ı can guess who you vote for. you hate yourself dont you

Again continuing a version of "traitor" discourse by claiming i hate myself.

[ardakilic]

okay, go outside and openly ask these questions to turkish people. can you do that? instead of spouting your hatered to us.do you have the guts to talk like this outside? my boyfriend would turn your face into a monkey if you talked like this with us.if you want, ı can give you myreal adress. ım serious.

You couldnt respond and say "Many Turks think like me so i am right". And we see Kemalist vandalism still continues.

* Personal note: I wigged out! But "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes".

very softly try to explain all the turks that ı know ,that turks have committed a crime by erasing all armenian culture from anatolia . even me such a moderate and ordinary person ,cant spread this reality to people. and you say most of the turks are like you and hate atatürk.bla and bla.

Once, just only once, respond not deflecting my words. Again and again and again: I didnot state that many Turks hate Kemal. I asked a simlpy question: Why Kemal's party couldnt win a single fair and free election in this country?

either you or me is a liar.

I ask questions without getting any single respnse except attacking foolishly. Everything is so obivous.

and ım sure all armenians in this site love you much more than me, all of them think you are an intellectual.

I don't care Armenians or Turkish love me or hate me. We are not talking about affection affairs.

but ım sure they realisticly know that you are not typical at all.

Who cares being typical or not? What i pay attention is whether i am fair and honest or not.

ı have not met even one single person in turkey who thinks like you.you are not a traitor but very likely a terrorist.

Foolishly speaking. "If i havent met, there cant be"! And due to my opposition against Kemal, i am a terrorist. Look at your Kemalist (ill)logic.

you do your best , try to think even stronger than a taşnak armenian. you think ,the more you hate yourself the more armenians will love you.

While you dont have any clear idea about Kemal except being from the same city and you are drowned into contradictions but i hate myself?

Again "traitor" discourse by emphasizing Dashnaks.

Answer Lal, just answer! If you cant, accept the reality or stop babbling:

-Why Kemal sheltered and protected AG commiters?

[lal]

You couldnt respond and say "Many Turks think like me so i am right". And we see Kemalist vandalism still continues.

* Personal note: I wigged out! But "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes".




Once, just only once, respond not deflecting my words. Again and again and again: I didnot state that many Turks hate Kemal. I asked a simlpy question: Why Kemal's party couldnt win a single fair and free election in this country?



I ask questions without getting any single respnse except attacking foolishly. Everything is so obivous.



I don't care Armenians or Turkish love me or hate me. We are not talking about affection affairs.



Who cares being typical or not? What i pay attention is whether i am fair and honest or not.



Foolishly speaking. "If i havent met, there cant be"! And due to my opposition against Kemal, i am a terrorist. Look at your Kemalist (ill)logic.



While you dont have any clear idea about Kemal except being from the same city and you are drowned into contradictions but i hate myself?

Again "traitor" discourse by emphasizing Dashnaks.

Answer Lal, just answer! If you cant, accept the reality or stop babbling:

-Why Kemal sheltered and protected AG commiters?

ataürk did not orginise the genocide. ı dont know if he protected ag commiters. if he did, that doesnt mean that he approved the genocide. ım sure he did it for politics.

you cant critisize great atatürk being a dictator. turkey was not a candidate for eu in 1920 s. dont talk about human rights in those years.