What should Turkey be proud of?

[Hellektor]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Hellektor, I don't think you're racist and I like your posts.

Warmest greetings to you, I appreciate your support, dear gmd.

[Hellektor]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Look, I'm just trying to keep a level of fluidity on these forums. In order to do that there are rules. I notice that since the merger of the forums, there were no rules posted on this part of the forum. I have just posted the rules for everyone to read. It's reasonable in my opinion.

You have the “power”, anyway, let's also agree that you don’t grasp my (maybe not so obvious) sense of humor (good or bad).

Let me tell you, banning me won't be the end of my life, yet you'll be silencing an honest voice. Of course, I can reregister with a different user name and slightly change my tone, but that will make me a hypocrite.

See what the Turks are doing here. What they do cannot be put in words in any language. This scumbag Turk has been masquerading as an Armenian on these boards for such a long time. I don’t know whether you or someone else saw through him before I did. It took ONE post directed at me (that made me read his garbage) to see through his mask. What this Saco Turk does is infinitely more disgusting and vile than all the adjectives I used to describe our diabolical enemy. He pretends he’s Armenian (and that from Hyastan) to inject his Turkic poison in our minds and turn us against each other and I get to be the bad guy. I am totally against banning or deleting posts, therefore I would make a “bad” mod, but I wouldn’t hesitate ban Turks disguised as Armenians, manipulating us and turning us against one another, what I believe you agree is most monstrously despicable.

Part of the reason we want to maintain some modicum of civility is because in the end many people, Armenian and non-Armenian, read this forum even if they don't post. Despite whatever has happened in history, you cannot make bold assertions like that with sweeping insults and generalizations. I know it's personal and sometimes its dear to us to see the injustice go on, but please, let's not be dramatic. It's history, it's happened and many people have suffered as well throughout time. That doesn't mean we are not conscious of our case or we aren't trying to expose the injustices, nor that we don't have arguments. It's just, we have to be cool.

I’m not cool, what can I do? Why do you think everyone responds the same way to things? You want me to be a hypocrite, but I can’t. I can’t be cool seeing a Turk masquerading as a Hyastantsi is fooling around and is holding us for imbeciles.

In the end, we are pleading our case to the world at large, whether in our history and perspective, or in the genocide, it doesn't matter. In the end, it is non-Armenians whom we are trying to get to see our side of things. By doing what you do, we only alienate non-Armenians and make them have a bad image of us. You are not doing our side a favor by spewing in the fashion that you do.

Though I do see your point, I think this is an insult to people’s intelligence. Why do you think these non-Armenians are going to see me as the voice of all Armenians? I am certain they can judge for themselves and if they don’t like what they see, they’ll just add me to their ignore list.

You can still state your arguments, but there is a manner and a method. I don't care what rationalizations you make or if you see the light and we don't, etc., etc., you are no more unique than any other Armenian who shows interest and wants our perspectives in the limelight of the world so someone can see our case finally. But by the method which you have chosen to attack this, by your spiteful comments, it only shows us as an irrational and unreasonable bunch who cannot keep our heads cool.

You are contradicting yourself! I am not unique, sure (I never said I was), yet I am showing all Armenians “as an irrational and unreasonable bunch who cannot keep our heads cool”. I’ll try to keep your comments in mind, because you have the “power”, not because you convinced me.

[Anonymouse]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Honestly, I really don't know your guidelines. Can't we even SAY Turks are savages when they don't give up a chance to destroy us?

Look, I'm just trying to keep a level of fluidity on these forums. In order to do that there are rules. I notice that since the merger of the forums, there were no rules posted on this part of the forum. I have just posted the rules for everyone to read. It's reasonable in my opinion.

Part of the reason we want to maintain some modicum of civility is because in the end many people, Armenian and non-Armenian, read this forum even if they don't post. Despite whatever has happened in history, you cannot make bold assertions like that with sweeping insults and generalizations. I know it's personal and sometimes its dear to us to see the injustice go on, but please, let's not be dramatic. It's history, it's happened and many people have suffered as well throughout time. That doesn't mean we are not conscious of our case or we aren't trying to expose the injustices, nor that we don't have arguments. It's just, we have to be cool.

In the end, we are pleading our case to the world at large, whether in our history and perspective, or in the genocide, it doesn't matter. In the end, it is non-Armenians whom we are trying to get to see our side of things. By doing what you do, we only alienate non-Armenians and make them have a bad image of us. You are not doing our side a favor by spewing in the fashion that you do.

You can still state your arguments, but there is a manner and a method. I don't care what rationalizations you make or if you see the light and we don't, etc., etc., you are no more unique than any other Armenian who shows interest and wants our perspectives in the limelight of the world so someone can see our case finally. But by the method which you have chosen to attack this, by your spiteful comments, it only shows us as an irrational and unreasonable bunch who cannot keep our heads cool.

[gmd]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Hellektor, I don't think you're racist and I like your posts.

[Hellektor]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Are you forgetting all the good Turks, Arda, Hrant Dink (well, half a Turk), thousands of people that feel so sorry today, etc.?

My, my, my...

What a fool I was spending over an hour responding to the previous post... How did this escape my attention? Maybe subconsciously I couldn't as much as conceive someone utter such blasphemy, so I simply didn't “see” it...

Well! You fooled me there! I must confess I haven't read your posts. I don't like you and I simply ignore your posts. Now I see! You're the nth Turk masquerading as an Armenian on Armenian boards. No Armenian would call Hrant Dink a Turk only because he was born and lived in Turk-occupied Armenia. Now I see clearly. What a dupe I was! But then again I never gave a shit about your posts...

[Hellektor]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

I gave it some thought before writing this, I didn't want to reply but then again I saw that by removing my post and calling it “an insult-filled hateful banter full of nonsense and appeals to emotion”, you do not allow for the reader to be the judge.


Oh, the reader DID give his views, it was simply deleted because it broke down everything you said. There wasn't much to judge. You simply turned Turkey into an idol of evil when in reality, you have no idea what your talking about (??? H.). I can tell you things about Armenia that would make you want to kill all Armenians (??? H.). Would you like to hear everyone calling you a worthless pile of crap? I figure not. We have to move on, not call everyone racists. (??? H.)

Այ տղայ, գլուխդ տուտուզիդ հետ ա խաղու՞մ:
You assume whatever you think is exactly what everyone else agrees with? You are the spokesman of everyone else? This makes you an intolerant fascist. How do you like that? I never address people on forum boards with a harsh tone unlike you. When did I call everyone “racists”? It's YOU who are labeling me a racist and since you label me I have the right to label you too.

I still have the text on my PC so let me just summarize what it was that looked so wild in your eyes:

Your harsh tone of voice and very racist words are what got us wild and still do as a matter of fact. Imagine a normal, sane Turk entering the forums for the first time, what will he/she think when he/she reads your posts? You are PAVING the road to a new war, the war you are trying to supposedly counter. You don't understand what you are saying or doing. How can you be so racist? Are you forgetting all the good Turks, Arda, Hrant Dink (well, half a Turk), thousands of people that feel so sorry today, etc.?

I have my way of saying things and I stand by EVERY SINGLE WORD I write or say. You can ask me for explanation and I'll clarify what it is that I mean if you aren't able to figure it out.

I explained that I was only writing on this very thread because I accidentally saw I was called a racist.

And you are still being called racist...

Says who? The fascist Saco who allows himself to be the spokesman of everyone else? First rule of tolerance: YOU SPEAK ONLY FOR YOUR OWN SELF!

Later I gave examples of a thousand years of persecution of Armenians by Turks which still goes on, which I believe should be mentioned as often as possible

There is a way to express anything at all, there are different ways to say anything. You took the racist, demoniac, and hellish route.

You are responsible for whatever you say and however you say it. It's none of your fucking business how I say things. The mod doesn't like it, they ban me. I am responsible for what I say and it is my fucking business how I say it.

Your dear, “racist, demoniac and hellish” Turk has killed our nation, destroyed our civilization, raped, pillaged and plundered our home and people for a thousand years, stolen our homeland, is sitting in it and they still want more and more. I have the goddamn right to be pissed over this until the day the genocidal savages accept their “racist, demoniac and hellish” history, give us back what they took from us through cowardly acts of genocide, make reparations for all our losses and the destruction of our heritage, then I will consider, just consider them nearing the sate of humanity but never before.

and I expressed my wonder at the belief of some Armenians that the Turk has any good intentions in pretending to want to start relations with Armenia.

It's because of people like you that we can't have that sooner and I will personally get you banned if you ever barge in and continue with your reign of racism, hate, and true terrorism I can even say.

Shame on you! What have I done? So, an anonymous voice reminding us of a fraction of the monstrosities perpetrated against us by your dear Turks is all that stands between Turks opening the border THEY closed as an act of war, so that you will earn a few more dollars? I am ashamed of Armenians like you.

Honestly, I really don't know your guidelines. Can't we even SAY Turks are savages when they don't give up a chance to destroy us?

NO, because all Turks aren't that way. Do you truly not understand that or are you having trouble dealing with your hate simply?

My remarks are not directed at individuals and if you haven't got that, you are either too young, too naïve, too uninformed or an outright traitor. I don't know which one it is, you tell me.

Turkey's only policy towards Armenia is that they never have accepted and never will accept the existence of an Armenia of any shape, size or form, because it is the wedge that stands between their realization of their sick pan-turkic delusion.

EVERY SINGLE thing they have said and done so far and EVERY SINGLE thing they say or do now confirms this and if you haven't got this yet, and an Armenian's mentioning of the ugly reality is getting in the way of you having an amicable chat with your Turk buddies, then you are either too young, too naïve, too uninformed or an outright traitor. I don't know you, you tell me which one it is. Whatever I am, you cannot label me as hypocrite or dishonest and I'm proud of that. So, be honest and tell me which one of the above applies to you.

Shall I repeat the examples of Turkish acts of genocide only in the last 20 years or so which all went totally unpunished? Doesn’t this indifference disappoint or anger you?


It does but there are ways of facing all issues. Yours won't get anyone, anywhere, except the battlefield.

Repetition, already answered.

Needless to say, I wrote in my own style, which I will not give up and which is not to your liking. I view you as someone who's unable to read my posts in a tongue-in-cheek manner and pictures me crushing my teeth, red and steaming from anger and so on, whereas sometimes when I stumble upon my older posts I laugh my ass off.

That just shows what type of person you are and how much hate you carry around. Problem is you don't realize we aren't laughing with you, we're laughing at you. Pull yourself together dude, I understand your pain and all but your actions and words are unforgivable (??? H.).

I don't mind at all being laughed at, I'm totally OK with that yet I do not need your forgiveness, don't give a semi-flying duck about it and as I said it's my business and responsibility whatever I say, however I say it. Not everyone's sense of humor responds the same way.

The Turk is only after the removal of what's left of Armenia and the realization of their sick pan-turk delusion. If those who are embracing these genocidal occupiers and do not see what's going on lead us to another historical blunder, then it's done with Armenia. In my own way I try to remind ourselves of these facts.


We (??? You speak for your own gd self! H.) know those facts and much, much more and for that reason, we don't ask for war like you. Anyone would want to kill after what you said, Armenian or Turk.

I don't ask for war. Where did you get that idea? I am only hoping that someday a patriotic government will come to power in an Armenia where people's living standards has reached a reasonable level and where the state will raise the Wilson arbitration issue, which will give us the Armenia you see in my avatar, the minimum required for us to have a bright future as a nation. Show me ONE Turk who’s willing to part with that minimum from what they stole from us. Let me see which one of your Akçams and Pamuks and your dearer than Armenian Turk chums will be human enough for that.

There are many who encourage me on various boards in public and in PMs where I write, yet there are a few (mainly non-Armenians) and the mods who don't like my tone. Sadly (for me and those who like what I write), this ties my hands and prevents a voice from being heard.

Thank the heavenly father...

There’s no such thing as heaven. Haven’t you seen pictures from space? There’s only darkness above this thin layer we call earth’s atmosphere. If god existed, he/she/it wouldn’t have created the Turk. Such a huge mistake is impossible from an unerring god. (For Christ’s sake, try to read this with a touch of humor!)

I hope Armenians will learn from history and we are not going to make another fatal mistake which this time around will deliver the final blow to our existence as a nation. I don't know why I care...

If you continue the way you are, that will happen and much sooner. This new generation is questioning the past and we have a chance of undoing the wrong but people like you are stopping us in our tracks. The truth can't be thrown in people's faces in such a racist way. All this time, all of us have been trying to get our history out there, it's not just you, but you don't see us waving around guns and torches. Get yourself together or find some other forum.

You self-righteous, երես առած nuisance! I didn’t know you were one of the mods, why is this not mentioned in your info?

[Sako]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

I gave it some thought before writing this, I didn't want to reply but then again I saw that by removing my post and calling it “an insult-filled hateful banter full of nonsense and appeals to emotion”, you do not allow for the reader to be the judge.


Oh, the reader DID give his views, it was simply deleted because it broke down everything you said. There wasn't much to judge. You simply turned Turkey into an idol of evil when in reality, you have no idea what your talking about. I can tell you things about Armenia that would make you want to kill all Armenians. Would you like to hear everyone calling you a worthless pile of crap? I figure not. We have to move on, not call everyone racists.

I still have the text on my PC so let me just summarize what it was that looked so wild in your eyes:

Your harsh tone of voice and very racist words are what got us wild and still do as a matter of fact. Imagine a normal, sane Turk entering the forums for the first time, what will he/she think when he/she reads your posts? You are PAVING the road to a new war, the war you are trying to supposedly counter. You don't understand what you are saying or doing. How can you be so racist? Are you forgetting all the good Turks, Arda, Hrant Dink (well, half a Turk), thousands of people that feel so sorry today, etc.?

I explained that I was only writing on this very thread because I accidentally saw I was called a racist.

And you are still being called racist...

Later I gave examples of a thousand years of persecution of Armenians by Turks which still goes on, which I believe should be mentioned as often as possible

There is a way to express anything at all, there are different ways to say anything. You took the racist, demoniac, and hellish route.

and I expressed my wonder at the belief of some Armenians that the Turk has any good intentions in pretending to want to start relations with Armenia.

It's because of people like you that we can't have that sooner and I will personally get you banned if you ever barge in and continue with your reign of racism, hate, and true terrorism I can even say.

Honestly, I really don't know your guidelines. Can't we even SAY Turks are savages when they don't give up a chance to destroy us?

NO, because all Turks aren't that way. Do you truly not understand that or are you having trouble dealing with your hate simply?

Shall I repeat the examples of Turkish acts of genocide only in the last 20 years or so which all went totally unpunished? Doesn’t this indifference disappoint or anger you?


It does but there are ways of facing all issues. Yours won't get anyone, anywhere, except the battlefield.

Needless to say, I wrote in my own style, which I will not give up and which is not to your liking. I view you as someone who's unable to read my posts in a tongue-in-cheek manner and pictures me crushing my teeth, red and steaming from anger and so on, whereas sometimes when I stumble upon my older posts I laugh my ass off.

That just shows what type of person you are and how much hate you carry around. Problem is you don't realize we aren't laughing with you, we're laughing at you. Pull yourself together dude, I understand your pain and all but your actions and words are unforgivable.

The Turk is only after the removal of what's left of Armenia and the realization of their sick pan-turk delusion. If those who are embracing these genocidal occupiers and do not see what's going on lead us to another historical blunder, then it's done with Armenia. In my own way I try to remind ourselves of these facts.


We know those facts and much, much more and for that reason, we don't ask for war like you. Anyone would want to kill after what you said, Armenian or Turk.

There are many who encourage me on various boards in public and in PMs where I write, yet there are a few (mainly non-Armenians) and the mods who don't like my tone. Sadly (for me and those who like what I write), this ties my hands and prevents a voice from being heard.

Thank the heavenly father...

I hope Armenians will learn from history and we are not going to make another fatal mistake which this time around will deliver the final blow to our existence as a nation. I don't know why I care...

If you continue the way you are, that will happen and much sooner. This new generation is questioning the past and we have a chance of undoing the wrong but people like you are stopping us in our tracks. The truth can't be thrown in people's faces in such a racist way. All this time, all of us have been trying to get our history out there, it's not just you, but you don't see us waving around guns and torches. Get yourself together or find some other forum.

[Hellektor]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Turks have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Aghvans. If the lost Aghvan peoples have an heir, it's their long time neighbor and brother nation Armenians not the leftovers of Oghuz invasions and the turkified locals who had already lost every thinkable affinity with the Aghvan culture, religion, languages, etc. after their conversion to Islam as a result of Arab invasion.

The Christian Udis have mainly assimilated with Armenians. For instance, I've heard General Silikian was of Udi origin. The rest have been mistreated by "Azeris" who see them as Armenians.

If the Christian Aghvans had survived to this day, the genocidal Turk would have exterminated them all the same. Now they undeservedly claim Aghvan heritage to which they have not a grain of affinity.

[Hellektor]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

Hellektor, your post was deleted because it was nothing but an insult-filled hateful banter full of nonsense and appeals to emotion. Either contribute to the thread, follow the rules, and stop spewing insulting nonsense, or find another forum. One more equals a ban.

I gave it some thought before writing this, I didn't want to reply but then again I saw that by removing my post and calling it “an insult-filled hateful banter full of nonsense and appeals to emotion”, you do not allow for the reader to be the judge.

I still have the text on my PC so let me just summarize what it was that looked so wild in your eyes:

I explained that I was only writing on this very thread because I accidentally saw I was called a racist. Later I gave examples of a thousand years of persecution of Armenians by Turks which still goes on, which I believe should be mentioned as often as possible, and I expressed my wonder at the belief of some Armenians that the Turk has any good intentions in pretending to want to start relations with Armenia.

Honestly, I really don't know your guidelines. Can't we even SAY Turks are savages when they don't give up a chance to destroy us? Shall I repeat the examples of Turkish acts of genocide only in the last 20 years or so which all went totally unpunished? Doesn’t this indifference disappoint or anger you?

Needless to say, I wrote in my own style, which I will not give up and which is not to your liking. I view you as someone who's unable to read my posts in a tongue-in-cheek manner and pictures me crushing my teeth, red and steaming from anger and so on, whereas sometimes when I stumble upon my older posts I laugh my ass off.

The Turk is only after the removal of what's left of Armenia and the realization of their sick pan-turk delusion. If those who are embracing these genocidal occupiers and do not see what's going on lead us to another historical blunder, then it's done with Armenia. In my own way I try to remind ourselves of these facts.

There are many who encourage me on various boards in public and in PMs where I write, yet there are a few (mainly non-Armenians) and the mods who don't like my tone. Sadly (for me and those who like what I write), this ties my hands and prevents a voice from being heard.

I hope Armenians will learn from history and we are not going to make another fatal mistake which this time around will deliver the final blow to our existence as a nation. I don't know why I care...

[Sako]

Re: What should Turkey be proud of?

It's sad I had to get this information from a Turkish travel agency advertising via Googleads rather then hear it from a Turkish member.

Here are some things to be proud of (give me your views everyone) ...

CAPPADOCIA
~
EPHESUS
~
Orhan Pamuk, winner of the 2006 Nobel Prize in Literature (Obvious)
~
FETHIYE OLUDENIZ
~