Israel will be reconize the Armenian Genocide ?

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Israel will be reconize the Armenian Genocide ?

Bells:
There is no doubt that certain groups in US benefit greatly from wartime conditions such as defense contractors and the Military Industrial complex ( to name a few) but to think that this is the only primary reason for the NATO troops in Afghanistan shows you have a distorted view of the world. I don’t think you realize how volatile the whole situation is. You have Taliban returning in force and maybe in power soon. You have Afghanistan (graveyard of civilizations), Nuclear Pakistan and Nuclear India. Militant Islam is on the rise in all those countries with Al Qaeda still running cross border assaults from Azyristan region in two fronts….But hey, we are making money, right?

As far as the latest IDF incursion into Gaza it seems Israelis found the timing of their elections perfect for the time to once again weaken Hamas. They know very well that they cannot destroy Hamas completely but they can destroy their infrastructure (Tunnels) and their ability to launch those “wake you up five in the morning firecrackers” which right after the the pull out the remaining Hamas leaders emerge from their trenches and declare Victory once again. In no time IDF target assassination (cleanup operations) of these new leaders will commence.
The civilian deaths of children and the excessive use of powerful weapons by Israelis is questionable (maybe a message to Hamas?)…Unfortunately many times during the heat of the battle Palestinian kids follow and stick right next to their hero, a Hamas fighter firing his AK47.
Did you know that those Rockets that Pals fire towards Israeli residents represents their spirit returning to where they call their homeland?....what a political statement. The Iranian long range Rockets smuggled via Syria seems to work better.

Your question about US retaliation and the amount of deaths caused by the US foreign policies under President Bush after the ruthless attack that took the life so many innocent civilians and brave NY firefighters, I am assuming you are referring to the Iraq War? It all depends on your amount of hate and blame for America.
We can use your numbers if you believe that every death including suicide bomber victims, Shiite/Sunni killings, midnight death squads taking their share of the loot from others, revenge killings, Traffic accidents and so on... but the deaths of Iraqi civilians directly caused by American Military personnel is only a fraction of the number of the official civilian deaths that I have listed below (mostly caused from bad intelligence) and all of them are regrettable.

Isn't that similar to the excuse Turkey tries to use - "hundreds of thousands died, but it was because of famine, and disease and the side effects of being deported, and so we aren't responsible". The truth is that America is responsible for the deaths of everyone who would be alive today were it not for American actions in or against Iraq. And the tens thousands who have died as a result of every dictatorship and represive regime (such as Israel) being allowed (and encouraged) by America to do whatever they want under the guise of fighting terrorism.

America loved 9/11. It allowed Americans to express themselves. A county with a secure and deepseated civilisation would have turned the other cheek and would not have retaliated in such a forceful way. But not America.
"This [9/11] will do for Bush what the burning of the Reichstag did for Hitler", I said to someone on the day it happened.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Israel will be reconize the Armenian Genocide ?

My bad, sorry, I misspelled. You are not a jerk, Wilson is. You are a JOKE.

“Morgenthau is a racist xxx, Lepsius is a racist German and a priest too, Franz Werfel is a racist converted xxx, Armin Wegner is a racist German, Leslie Davis is a racist American, Arnold Toynbee (one of the greatest historians of the 20th century) is a racist Englishman engaged in racist British wartime propaganda, Maria Jacobsen is a racist Swede, Fridtjof Nansen is a racist Norwegian, Alma Johansson is a missionary therefore racist and biased towards Christians, they're all liars, they lie, lie, lie…”,

If Hellektor wrote the above, he is displaying some not often seen good sense. May, I don't think you can get as proper opinion on Wilson from Wikipedia - but even if your characterisation of him is correct, you have to realise that your words do mirror somewhat the words of Turkish denialists, as summarised by Hellektor, and you are going to get angry responses because of that.

[TomServo]

Re: Israel will be reconize the Armenian Genocide ?

There were Muslim eyewitnesses as well. I think it was Hellektor who once referred us to a Persian witness of the genocide.

[Eddo211]

Re: Israel will be reconize the Armenian Genocide ?

Turkish military, foreign ministry protest IDF Major General's comments in Haaretz


Last update - 18:28 14/02/2009

By Reuters

The Turkish military said on Saturday that criticism by an Israeli general of Turkey's occupation of Cyprus and its conflict with the Kurds threatened to harm relations between the two countries.

The Turkish Foreign Ministry also summoned Israeli Ambassador Gabby Levy to protest the comments in Haaretz by Maj. Gen. Avi Mizrahi, commander of Israel's land forces.

Mizrahi was quoted by Haaretz as saying Turkey was not in a position to criticize Israel's actions in the Palestinian territories when it stations troops in northern Cyprus.
He also accused Turkey of repressing its Kurdish minority and massacring Armenians during World War I.

It was the latest sign of tension between Turkey and Israel, who maintain close military ties but whose alliance has been strained by the Israeli offensive on Gaza.

Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan accused President Shimon Peres of "knowing very well how to kill" in a public debate last month at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

The Turkish General Staff, in a statement carried by the state-run Anatolian news agency, said Mizrahi's remarks were completely unacceptable.

"The comments have been assessed to be at the extent that the national interests between the two countries could be damaged," it said.

Turkey and Israel's military co-operation includes allowing Israeli jets to use Turkish airspace for training.

Erdogan told Reuters on Friday there were no plans to halt that agreement.
Turkey keeps about 30,000 troops in Turkish-occupied northern Cyprus after invading the island in 1974 to thwart a coup attempt by Greek Cypriots. It is the only country to recognise a Turkish Cypriot administration there.

It has also fought a 25-year war against Kurdish separatists seeking to establish a homeland in the southeast. Turkey denies accusations that it committed genocide against 1.5 million Armenians during World War I.

Link

Thanks Alexandros
Occupying Cyprus…amazing what Turkey is still getting away with. Mizrahi is right on the money; Turkey has no moral ground to stand on to make such statements.

BTW, There is a good chance that the Israeli lobby will not try to block the AG Bill this year in US congress…unless Turkey has another card up its sleeve the chances of this bill passing in the next few years looks promising so far.

Turkey is not taking Edrogen’s stunt very seriously and will continue their relationship despite the population’s low approval of Israel and US but the xxxs are furious. I have taken the liberty to advise as many of them to the nature of the Turks on Israeli News talkbacks. Amazingly few Turks who do not appear to be Genocide deniers post there, including of course your regular Ultra-nationalists.

[Hellektor]

Re: Israel will be reconize the Armenian Genocide ?

There were Muslim eyewitnesses as well. I think it was Hellektor who once referred us to a Persian witness of the genocide.

The Persian writer, Mohammad Ali Jamalzadeh witnessed the plight of the Armenians, traveling from Berlin to Baghdad in spring of 1915, crossing from Istanbul to Aleppo and Baghdad, then back to Berlin. He noted down what he saw in "My Personal Observations in World War One". He is neither a Christian, nor a xxx nor a Westerner:

"We took a coach from Baghdad and Aleppo towards Istanbul. We saw many groups of Armenians from the very beginning of our journey, in unbelievable condition, and the armed Turkish gendarmes on horseback were driving them to their deaths. At first we were shocked, but we gradually became so used to it that we did not look at them anymore. It wasn't a sight to look at, indeed. Hundreds of weak and distressed Armenian men, women and children were being forced to walk forward by lashes and blows of rifle butts.

There were no Young men among the people, because all the young men were sent to the battle fronts or they were killed lest they'd join the Russian army. Armenian girls had shaved their heads and were completely bald to avoid being molested by Arab and Turkish men. Two or three gendarmes on horseback drove these groups forward by the whip like cattle.

If one of the captives fell behind as a result of exhaustion, weakness or nature's call, they would remain behind forever and the groans and pleadings of their relatives were useless. Therefore, here and there we saw Armenian men and women lying on the road side who were either dead, moribund or in near death agony.

Later we heard that several local young men, to quench their lustful desires, had not spared the honor of dead or dying Armenian girls.
Our route was along the western bank of Euphrates, and not a day would pass without us seeing the corpses floating on the river. One night, we stopped at a relatively habitable place and we bought a lamb from the residents and slaughtered and grilled it. We disemboweled the lamb and suddenly we saw a group of Armenians, whom the gendarmes had brought nearby, threw themselves on the green soup-like liquid waste from the lamb and devoured it. It was a sight I haven't forgotten to this day.

Yet another day we lodged in a place nearby a caravan from these Armenians under Ottoman police control. An Armenian woman with death like appearance came to me and said in French: "For God's sake, my children are dying of hunger. Take these two diamonds and give me some food instead."
Believe me, I didn't take the diamonds and I gave her some food, even though we were becoming short of food and we still had several days before arriving in Aleppo.

We arrived in Aleppo and lodged in a big hotel owned by an Armenian, called The Prince Hotel. He came to us in panic and said: "Jamal Pasha has arrived in Aleppo and is staying in this hotel. I fear he will arrest and kill me and he'll confiscate the hotel.

He entreated us to go to Jamal Pasha, who had become famous for his cruelty, and mediate. He said: "you are honorable people and your mediation might be effective". However, it remained ineffective, and after hours we heard that the Armenian man was arrested and he was taken to Beirut or somewhere that had become known as a huge slaughterhouse.

To cut it short, those were strange times and it has turned into a horrifying nightmare for me. It haunts me now and again, and it fills my entire being with pain and sorrow.

Mohammad Ali Jamalzadeh, 25 th of Khordad, 1350 (15th of June, 1971), Geneva.

[Hellektor]

Re: Israel will be reconize the Armenian Genocide ?

My bad, sorry, I misspelled. You are not a jerk, Wilson is. You are a JOKE.

In just three short sentences, 16 words long in all, you have managed to resort to a whole bunch of fallacies.

Among others, the fallacy of:

1. Ad hominem against Wilson: “You are not a jerk, Wilson is.”
2. Ad hominem against me: “You are a JOKE.”
3. Sneering and mockery: “My bad, sorry,”
4. Avoiding the subject.
5. Arrogance and condescending.

There's a good reason why one resorts to fallacy: lack of reason and bad reasoning. Turks are well known for their weak logic and you are not an exception.

I can bet my life you'll do one of the following:

1. Reply by resorting to more fallacy.
2. Avoid replying, which is a proof of your lack of reasoning.

One more time: my being a joke or Wilson's being a jerk does not diminish the value of the Wilson Arbitration. Nothing does. It's there and it's only a matter of time that it will grab you by the throat and will squeeze it so hard you'll be sorry you stole my home in the first place.

Your predictable reaction to this post will be the proof of YOU being the joke, a sick one that is.

[Sako]

Re: Israel will be reconize the Armenian Genocide ?

It's only a matter of time that it will grab you by the throat and will squeeze it so hard you'll be sorry you stole my home in the first place.

Maybe this is a sick joke as well ... or maybe your just a racist clown that forgot where his circus is !

[Anoush]

Re: Israel will be reconize the Armenian Genocide ?

Maybe this is a sick joke as well ... or maybe your just a racist clown that forgot where his circus is !

From what I heard last, he is a savvy historian. What do you do? Or who are you that you're crudely calling others names forgetting your place?

My friend is absolutely right! We will get our land back one way or the other!!!!!!!

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Israel will be reconize the Armenian Genocide ?

From what I heard last, he is a savvy historian. What do you do? Or who are you that you're crudely calling others names forgetting your place?

My friend is absolutely right! We will get our land back one way or the other!!!!!!!

I agree with you Anoush jan, we have built every thing there and it will be back ours. One way or an other.

[Anoush]

Re: Israel will be reconize the Armenian Genocide ?

I agree with you Anoush jan, we have built every thing there and it will be back ours. One way or an other.

Asdoudso gamkov!!! Harach Asdvads!!!! Yes momeres varel em mer sourp Hayreniki veradiranalou shudapouyd abakayin!!!