Baby Steps

[hrai]

Re: Baby Steps

Dude, WHY ARE YOU SO TENSE? Did I say you were resorting to anything? I simply asked why you couldn't post in a new thread.

Saco, the thread Hellektor wanted to post in was closed, this was as good as any, as he stated. In fact this thread was comatose.
Why do you jump down his throat everytime ?????

[Sako]

Re: Baby Steps

So who's messing up things, creating tension, resorting to badgering?

Dude, WHY ARE YOU SO TENSE? Did I say you were resorting to anything? I simply asked why you couldn't post in a new thread.

My post was off-topic and I did mention why I was posting:

And I'm saying you could've opened a new thread instead of changing the topic in my thread. It was an interesting post and as you mentioned yourself, many Turks have the wrong idea about the Anatolian issue so why not start a new thread?

No, I know who you are.

I'm glad you finally figured it out, lol, congratulations, took you like 50 posts.

[Hellektor]

Re: Baby Steps

Couldn't you just start a new thread or something? There is a lot you just said that would be suitable for a new thread. You didn't have to mess up this one.

So who's messing up things, creating tension, resorting to badgering?

My post was off-topic and I did mention why I was posting:

I was browsing the last page of the now closed thread... I will however, reserve the right to respond to Turkic fallacies and since I don't have the chance to do it in the proper thread I will post it here.

Now he's gonna call me a Turk for saying this, lol!

No, I know who you are.

[Sako]

Re: Baby Steps

Couldn't you just start a new thread or something? There is a lot you just said that would be suitable for a new thread. You didn't have to mess up this one. Now he's gonna call me a Turk for saying this, lol!

[Hellektor]

Re: Baby Steps

I was browsing the last page of the now closed thread “Israel will be reconize the Armenian Genocide ?” and I was surprised even when I had decided not to post anymore, everybody was calling me names and getting away with it and still I was getting yet another warning from the mod even when I wasn't posting and even when there was nothing in my posts other than pointing out the fallacies of the Turks.

I don't care about the insults since they first came out of the heads of the posters and to themselves they shall refer. I will however, reserve the right to respond to Turkic fallacies and since I don't have the chance to do it in the proper thread I will post it here:

(Post link)

And regarding the "land": I heard somewhere, or read, or just heard, I do not remember exactly (it may be even from Hrant, but I say this with extreme caution). It was something like: "You know what I like about Anatolia? Everybody claims its their land. Turkish, Kurdish, Armenian... This piece of land will never be without an owner, protector, somebody will be living on it till the end"

Armenia is not Anatolia! The Armenian Highland starts where Anatolia ends at the 38th eastern meridian. Occupied Smyrna, occupied Angora, occupied Adrianople, etc., are in fact in Anatolia (Greek for east) and not occupied Van, Karin, Baghesh, Kharbert, Kars, Ardahan, etc. These are in Armenian Highland. Anatolia or Asia Minor is the peninsula, the western half of today's on genocide founded Turkey. The eastern half of Turkey is not Anatolia. The worst mistake even “academic” people allow is the despicable, meaningless term “Eastern Anatolia” (Eastern East).


Brainwashed Turks repeat the following a hundred times a day, maybe, just maybe you'll see the light:

Armenia is not Anatolia.
Armenia was NEVER part of Anatolia.
Armenia is OUTSIDE Anatolia.
Anatolia is OUTSIDE Armenia.
Armenia has NEVER been inside Anatolia.
Armenia has ALWAYS been outside Anatolia.
Anatolia has NEVER included Armenia.
Anatolia excludes Armenia.
Armenia is excluded from Anatolia.
Armenia and Anatolia are excluded from one another.
Armenia and Anatolia are not included in the same region.
Armenian western border touches the eastern border of Anatolia.
Anatolian eastern border touches the western border of Armenia.
When you are inside Anatolia you are OUTSIDE Armenia.
When you are inside Armenia you are OUTSIDE Anatolia.
Armenia and Anatolia are not the same.
Anatolia and Armenia are not the same.
Armenia and Anatolia are two DISTINCT geographical regions.

Click on the map for a larger version

[hitite]

Re: Baby Steps

Isn't Migros now owned by some multinational?

Koç Holding sold it to an English company last year.

BTW Koç is also multinational: http://www.koc.com.tr/tr-TR/Business/KocGroupCompanies/

[Sako]

Re: Baby Steps

What I briefly mean is, your ally or enemy may change depending on the context. And it is not even related with important aspects as religion or ethnic origin (Europeans killed each other for centuries in the name of religion although they belong to the same one). I do not believe in absolute alliance between countries. Georgia may be supporting Azerbaijan (I have no idea but I am just repeating what was written before) now, can start a war a year later, then support Armenia on a certain issue then take back the support for various reasons.

Brotherhood, or friendship between the people is what really matters. The rest is political bullshiet. That's why these "baby steps" should be taken seriously regardless of the offical discourse.

Couldn't have said it better. I just wanted to know if there was anything in specific that Georgia did or is doing.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Baby Steps

I found something. Actually, your question looks like a question that everybody asks and noone knows the exact answer. That's why there is a call for proposals to investigate the issue. The deadline is 27 February if anyone reading this forum is interested

Below is the project link of Euroasia Partnership Foundation that funds the project:

http://www.epfound.am/index.php?article_id=196&clang=0

At the bottom, scope of work kind of summarizes what is known. A quotation:

"Although there is no accurate data on labor migration from Armenia to Turkey, some sources estimate that between 40,000 and 70,000 Armenian labor migrants work in Istanbul alone. In the absence of official diplomatic relations between the two countries, there are no governmental means to obtain more in-depth knowledge about Armenian migrants in Turkey. Beliefs about the issue in Armenia range from the assumption that these migrants have been left with little hope for changing their legal status and little recourse in cases of abuse at the hands of employers or officials to rumors that Armenian nurses are highly demanded and respected in high-income Turkish households. Therefore, presently there is both popular and official interest in Armenia in the topic of irregular Armenian migrants in Turkey."

Fifty in-depth interviews in two months. Someone is going to be busy, or inventive. And why do they want interviews and "focus groups" to include a city in eastern Turkey? Izmir or Adana would be more credible choices.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Baby Steps

By the way, off topic, but are their any chain stores in Armenia like K-Mart / Wal-Mart in the US or like Migros in Turkey?

None that I know of.

Isn't Migros now owned by some multinational?

[may]

Re: Baby Steps

Interesting. Somehow, Armenia seems to have a very big connection with Georgia and it isn't just because of business reasons. They aren't exactly neutral, way I see it.

Saco, when it comes to international relations, nothing appears as expected. Take Azerbaijan and Turkey. "Two brother" countries, people in Azerbaijan celebrate when a football team from Turkey wins, some call Turkey as the motherland etc. etc.

But when it comes to Cyprus problem, they do not recognize the Northern Cyprus to support Turkey. They could not even start flights from Baku to Northern Cyprus. I do not mean they have to, or anyone should, but when it comes to talk we are from the same ethnic origin, brothers, we have to support each other bla bla. When it comes to reality, whatever more advantageous is done regardless of what is popularly said.

Turkey stopped diplomatic relationship with Armenia because of the problem with Azerbaijan. Now, Turkey, at least seems to, restore the relationship, open borders although the problem between Armenia and Azerbaijan supposedly continue. If you ask an Azeri, s/he will tell you Turkey is backstabbing. Meanwhile two countries sign agreements for oil pipe lines, because both countries has some gain in it.

What I briefly mean is, your ally or enemy may change depending on the context. And it is not even related with important aspects as religion or ethnic origin (Europeans killed each other for centuries in the name of religion although they belong to the same one). I do not believe in absolute alliance between countries. Georgia may be supporting Azerbaijan (I have no idea but I am just repeating what was written before) now, can start a war a year later, then support Armenia on a certain issue then take back the support for various reasons.

Brotherhood, or friendship between the people is what really matters. The rest is political bullshiet. That's why these "baby steps" should be taken seriously regardless of the offical discourse.