Letter from Prof. Ataov to US Senator about Armenian-Turkish issue

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Letter from Prof. Ataov to US Senator about Armenian-Turkish issue

You can’t be serious with the argument above. Turkish people were fighting for their country which was invaded and divided among Greece, Britain, Italy, France, Russia, etc. while the Armenians were trying to get a piece of Turkish lands as you put it so delicately. You cannot put Turkish and Armenians in the same category by any means.

This is the root of your double standard: Turks have rights and Armenians don't. You say Armenians had no right to create their own country, by implying the Ottoman Empire was a multi-ethnic and equal society, but when it comes down to it, you believe Turks have greater rights than other groups. Your double-standard is evident to anyone who is reading this thread.

You did not have any lands. They were Ottoman/Turkish lands.

Armenians had their own state for thousands of years. Just because a group of Oghuz tribesmen controlled the region for a few hundred years, doesn't make it "yours". Even as late as the 19th century, most of the land on the Armenian plateau was owned and worked on by Armenians. Armenians had the most businesses in the region. Armenians managed their own local economies. When the region fell under the control of Muslims (after WW1), it became the most backward region in the Middle East.

It is very interesting to see that you always come up allegations against Turkish state when it comes down to fanatics, but when it comes down to your fanatics, they are solely individuals. So, you are telling me that ASALA organized all those terrorist activities across the entire world without any help from Armenians. It is very hard to believe.

You are avoiding the point: No single Armenian government body or Armenian organization supported ASALA. They were a secretive, underground group, who didn't even trust other Armenians. Thats actually part of the reason they broke up--- they didn't trust each other after a while.

On the other hand, most Turkish atrocities were committed with government aid. Again, as a PhD, you should be intelligent enough to know why this is a much more serious crime.

What does the above statement prove actually? I don’t see any “censored and tampered” in those sentences.

Ataturk said "centuries-old accounts were being regulated". In English, "regulation" is a euphemism for tampering with something.

It says it was not easy to work with the Ottoman archives because they were old, confused, and rubbishy accounts, which is no surprise considering that hundreds of years of Empire was on the verge of collapse. That Turkish republic cannot be held accountable for past events, however Western countries made sure we paid for them. If it comes into, it only supports Turkish argument.

There you go again with your double-standard: On the issue of paying for past crimes, Ottomans have no connection with modern Turks. However, when it comes to taking land, Ottomans ARE modern Turks. Its hard to have a discussion with someone who changes their mind from one comment to the next.

So, you and Armenian state are against these laws? You did not want them to be passed; you did not lobby for these laws to be passed. If that is the case, I have no problem

The Armenian state CANNOT lobby for laws in France or Switzerland. Its irrelevant what the Armenian state thinks about the laws, since they played no part in the process. You are nit-picking. The fact is the Turkish state systematically brings people to trial for speech crimes, and no matter how many times you dance around that fact, the fact still remains.

Orhan Pamuk is a writer who sold his country for his personal interests. He wanted to get the Nobel, and he said things that would please you. He is a sold man in every way. Whenever somebody says or does things that Western countries like, they are rewarded. Nobel was the reward of Pamuk. What a shame!

I don't care what you think about Pamuk or other writers... You're dancing around the subject again. The fact is the Turkish state has systematically outlawed freedom of speech, and punishes people for speaking their minds. Plus, Pamuk and his Nobel Prize have no connection with Armenians or the Armenian state. You are making connections that aren't there.

You claim to be democratic, to be open to free thinking, and know democracy well. Yet, in every word I say, you are accusing me to have double standards, being non-intelligent (I have a PhD by the way), silly (my favorite one), a member of totalitarian society (you accuse a whole nation here), somebody who does not know anything about WW I. It is obviously clear that you cannot tolerate any opposing idea and you are certainly not democrat.

Have I tried to stop you from expressing your ideas? No, I haven't. So don't accuse me of being "intolerant". You're making baseless accusations because you ran out of things to say.

[Mukuch]

Re: Letter from Prof. Ataov to US Senator about Armenian-Turkish issue

Is barking from Turkey a reason to be charlatan? Then, what does barking from US and re-draw the boundaries of a region you have never seen, makes you?

Yes, this guy is a professor, and your un-recognition of him will not strip him off from his credentials. You may agree with him, or not, but I would like to know how he is well exposed as charlatan on what basis... Please enlighten me...

Well I will say doesn’t mater wher he barks from, the fact he is barking is enough….
LOL so what him makes a Professor? A degree from Syracuse UV ? Or the filth he has published and calls “books and booklets”? What is the point of historian who is intentionally alters History? Isn’t it enough to consider him a charlatan? Anyway words turk and professor together still give me a funny feeling



PS. I have seen the region may I re-draw the borders, please?

[Mukuch]

Re: Letter from Prof. Ataov to US Senator about Armenian-Turkish issue

Bell, I'll still like to see the analysis of the letter. And, if you have time, why don't you give it a try and write something that will not lack what you think lacks in Ataov's letter.

I am not being sarcastic, if you think so. I really mean it.

Why do you expect us analyze some untruthful, unhonest, primitive peas of grafomania created just with one purpose: to disoriented people. I wonder what your point is. Do you come her to proof that Armenians committed genocide against turks? Well you are in wrong place for such a purpose you must go to some turkish site for mentally disabled….

[Sako]

Re: Letter from Prof. Ataov to US Senator about Armenian-Turkish issue

May is not a denier, Mukuch jan. Relax. We know him very well. He is away at the moment so he might not reply for awhile.

[Mukuch]

Re: Letter from Prof. Ataov to US Senator about Armenian-Turkish issue

You can’t be serious with the argument above. Turkish people were fighting for their country which was invaded and divided among Greece, Britain, Italy, France, Russia, etc. while the Armenians were trying to get a piece of Turkish lands as you put it so delicately. You cannot put Turkish and Armenians in the same category by any means. You did not have any lands. They were Ottoman/Turkish lands.

What made that country theirs (turks) in first place? Was it given them by God? Or maybe they lived there for millennias? Ottoman empire was an ugly state created on OWR lands (and also lands of Greeks, Arabs, Assyrians etc i am not even mentioning Balkan nations) after turko-mongol invasion... and now you bastard tell us we didn’t have any lands? Turks are nomads, where did you see nomads to own land? And surely do not compare nomadic tribes with owr 4millenia of civilization. WE ARE IN DIFERENT CATEGORIES!

[Mukuch]

Re: Letter from Prof. Ataov to US Senator about Armenian-Turkish issue

It is very interesting to see that you always come up allegations against Turkish state when it comes down to fanatics, but when it comes down to your fanatics, they are solely individuals. So, you are telling me that ASALA organized all those terrorist activities across the entire world without any help from Armenians. It is very hard to believe.

Are you comparing a fascist state sponsored terrorism of turkey with the group of individuals who have committed few desperate actions? ASALA was created by worlds hypocrisy and turkish state ideology based on lies. It doesn’t exist anymore but turkish fascist state is still there!

[hrai]

Re: Letter from Prof. Ataov to US Senator about Armenian-Turkish issue

May is not a denier, Mukuch jan. Relax. We know him very well. He is away at the moment so he might not reply for awhile.

Saco, now may's a she. Isn't she?

[Sako]

Re: Letter from Prof. Ataov to US Senator about Armenian-Turkish issue

Saco, now may's a she. Isn't she?

I don't see why. The name May suggests that a member is a girl but May isn't. The reason I was confused about YOUR gender Hrai is because of one of your posts . There's a difference!

[hrai]

Re: Letter from Prof. Ataov to US Senator about Armenian-Turkish issue

I don't see why. The name May suggests that a member is a girl but May isn't. The reason I was confused about YOUR gender Hrai is because of one of your posts . There's a difference!

I think may said she was a girl some time ago.

[Sako]

Re: Letter from Prof. Ataov to US Senator about Armenian-Turkish issue

I think may said she was a girl some time ago.

I'd love to read that post.