History of the Armenian Genocide

[KanadaHye]

Re: History of the Armenian Genocide

What Armanen's trying to say is that for most Armenians, it strikes a raw nerve to see Armenians living Turkey among Turks after everything that happened to us and the way they are still treated there (even if it might have gotten better). The entire diaspora is assimilating but to see Armenians assimilate into Turks of all things leaves a foul taste in the mouths of most Armenians.

What we fail to understand is that the Bolsahyes do not consider themselves part of the diaspora because they were in Constantinople long before the genocide, for generations long. Before Armenia's independence in 1918, Tiflis and Constantinople were the de facto capitals of Armenian intellectuals for Eastern Armenia and Western Armenia respectively. However, seeing that Bolsahyes started leaving Istanbul in the 60s, 70s, the numbers have quickly diminished and it won't take long for 70.000 Armenians to drown in a sea of 70 million Turks/Kurds. What many Armenians would like to see is Armenians finally leaving Istanbul and settling in Armenia. This is not happening on a large scale but there are people I know who have developed strong bonds with the homeland (Google: Melisa Boz). Others are leaving for the West, like most diasporans in the region, which actually is an even faster way to assimilate but "at least they don't assimilate into Turks".

Istanbul is a major metropolitan city, that's like asking someone from Toronto or New York to leave and move to some crappy little city. A lot can be said about Turkey but the fact is if you take away the government and the surrounding conflict, and it's some great real estate.

Istanbul is also rated as one of the top 10 cities forecast to be hit by an earthquake

[Armanen]

Re: History of the Armenian Genocide

What Armanen's trying to say is that for most Armenians, it strikes a raw nerve to see Armenians living Turkey among Turks after everything that happened to us and the way they are still treated there (even if it might have gotten better). The entire diaspora is assimilating but to see Armenians assimilate into Turks of all things leaves a foul taste in the mouths of most Armenians.

What we fail to understand is that the Bolsahyes do not consider themselves part of the diaspora because they were in Constantinople long before the genocide, for generations long. Before Armenia's independence in 1918, Tiflis and Constantinople were the de facto capitals of Armenian intellectuals for Eastern Armenia and Western Armenia respectively. However, seeing that Bolsahyes started leaving Istanbul in the 60s, 70s, the numbers have quickly diminished and it won't take long for 70.000 Armenians to drown in a sea of 70 million Turks/Kurds. What many Armenians would like to see is Armenians finally leaving Istanbul and settling in Armenia. This is not happening on a large scale but there are people I know who have developed strong bonds with the homeland (Google: Melisa Boz). Others are leaving for the West, like most diasporans in the region, which actually is an even faster way to assimilate but "at least they don't assimilate into Turks".

Well put. I did goodle Melissa and just got results of her on facebook. Is there something specific on her you could link me to? Also, she may want to change her last name, B*z is not a good lastname to have in Armenian.

[Federate]

Re: History of the Armenian Genocide

We all know this. The point is that turkey committed Genocide, denies it to this day, and these 'Armenians' are still living in this country and are more turkish in culture than Armenian in culture.

What Armanen's trying to say is that for most Armenians, it strikes a raw nerve to see Armenians living Turkey among Turks after everything that happened to us and the way they are still treated there (even if it might have gotten better). The entire diaspora is assimilating but to see Armenians assimilate into Turks of all things leaves a foul taste in the mouths of most Armenians.

What we fail to understand is that the Bolsahyes do not consider themselves part of the diaspora because they were in Constantinople long before the genocide, for generations long. Before Armenia's independence in 1918, Tiflis and Constantinople were the de facto capitals of Armenian intellectuals for Eastern Armenia and Western Armenia respectively. However, seeing that Bolsahyes started leaving Istanbul in the 60s, 70s, the numbers have quickly diminished and it won't take long for 70.000 Armenians to drown in a sea of 70 million Turks/Kurds. What many Armenians would like to see is Armenians finally leaving Istanbul and settling in Armenia. This is not happening on a large scale but there are people I know who have developed strong bonds with the homeland (Google: Melisa Boz). Others are leaving for the West, like most diasporans in the region, which actually is an even faster way to assimilate but "at least they don't assimilate into Turks".

[Armanen]

Re: History of the Armenian Genocide

Turkey isn't the only place where Armenians are being assimilated. The problem isn't any different in Turkey than it is in France or Canada or the United Kingdom or Australia or America or anywhere in the world for that matter. The Armenian community in Turkey however aren't free to be Armenian but those in other parts of the world ARE FREE yet the forces of assimilation are greater than their exposure to Armenian culture.

Recent news in Turkey:

Armenians have been included on electoral party lists in Turkey: ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP)

Melkon Karakiose, Tatios Bebek, Margar Yesayan, Jerry Khrimyan and Petros Shirinoglu; main opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP) – Arev Jebej; opposition Nationalist Movement Party (MHP) – Gegham Karapetyan.

The leadership of pro-Kurdish Peace and Democracy party considers nomination of Hayko Baghdad, a representative of the Armenian community of Istanbul.

“If members of the Armenian community and parties reach an agreement, there is a great possibility that Armenians will join the Turkish parliament after a 45-year break,” Zaman reported.

23 non-Muslims, including 8 J3ws, 8 Greeks, 6 Armenians and one Turk-protestant, were elected to the Turkish parliament during the entire period of the Turkish Republic’s existence.

http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/world...r_45year_break

We all know this. The point is that turkey committed Genocide, denies it to this day, and these 'Armenians' are still living in this country and are more turkish in culture than Armenian in culture.

[KanadaHye]

Re: History of the Armenian Genocide

Dear Armanen,

I am positively surprised, that you support my unorthodox opinion. Indeed most of those pseudo armenians, who live in turkey are, as you already said, basically turks only with armenian names (firstname or surname).
They speak turkish, their lifestyle is turkish, hear all the time only turkish music, watch only turkish television, think and feel like a turk. Their souls and hearts beat turkish.
Some of them go to a armenian church, but during the "badarak" they don't understand even one word.
They speak during the ceremony, without feeling ashamed, turkish with each other for e.g. "do you know how end the foodball game between Besiktas and Fenerbahce".
Can you imagine my brother, in Samatya (today this place is named Kocamustafapasa) their is a beautiful old armenian church "surp kevork" since many years they established to perform the whole "badarak" in turkish.
Please it is enough for today, I have to stop writing about this stuation in Turkey, because, every time when I am writing about those "pseudo turks" I feel furiosness.

Best regards
Hayayrun

Turkey isn't the only place where Armenians are being assimilated. The problem isn't any different in Turkey than it is in France or Canada or the United Kingdom or Australia or America or anywhere in the world for that matter. The Armenian community in Turkey however aren't free to be Armenian but those in other parts of the world ARE FREE yet the forces of assimilation are greater than their exposure to Armenian culture.

Recent news in Turkey:

Armenians have been included on electoral party lists in Turkey: ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP)

Melkon Karakiose, Tatios Bebek, Margar Yesayan, Jerry Khrimyan and Petros Shirinoglu; main opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP) – Arev Jebej; opposition Nationalist Movement Party (MHP) – Gegham Karapetyan.

The leadership of pro-Kurdish Peace and Democracy party considers nomination of Hayko Baghdad, a representative of the Armenian community of Istanbul.

“If members of the Armenian community and parties reach an agreement, there is a great possibility that Armenians will join the Turkish parliament after a 45-year break,” Zaman reported.

23 non-Muslims, including 8 J3ws, 8 Greeks, 6 Armenians and one Turk-protestant, were elected to the Turkish parliament during the entire period of the Turkish Republic’s existence.

http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/world...r_45year_break

[Hayayrun]

Re: History of the Armenian Genocide

Most Armenians that still reside in istanbul are basically turks with Armenian surnames. I know what Hayayrun is talking about. Of course there are ones who kept their Armenianess too but they are in the minority.

Dear Armanen,

I am positively surprised, that you support my unorthodox opinion. Indeed most of those pseudo armenians, who live in turkey are, as you already said, basically turks only with armenian names (firstname or surname).
They speak turkish, their lifestyle is turkish, hear all the time only turkish music, watch only turkish television, think and feel like a turk. Their souls and hearts beat turkish.
Some of them go to a armenian church, but during the "badarak" they don't understand even one word.
They speak during the ceremony, without feeling ashamed, turkish with each other for e.g. "do you know how end the foodball game between Besiktas and Fenerbahce".
Can you imagine my brother, in Samatya (today this place is named Kocamustafapasa) their is a beautiful old armenian church "surp kevork" since many years they established to perform the whole "badarak" in turkish.
Please it is enough for today, I have to stop writing about this stuation in Turkey, because, every time when I am writing about those "pseudo turks" I feel furiosness.

Best regards
Hayayrun

[KanadaHye]

Re: History of the Armenian Genocide

Most Armenians that still reside in istanbul are basically turks with Armenian surnames. I know what Hayayrun is talking about. Of course there are ones who kept their Armenianess too but they are in the minority.

I don't think Turks go to church and there are around 30 Armenian churches in Istanbul. There are also about 5 Armenian highschools and 15 elementary schools. Turks also don't get baptized.

[Armanen]

Re: History of the Armenian Genocide

I agree Hayayrun. To be honest, even with all the cultural events and Armenian organizations available to the youth in Toronto, they are still rather marginally Armenian in culture. Perhaps it was different in 1983.

Most Armenians that still reside in istanbul are basically turks with Armenian surnames. I know what Hayayrun is talking about. Of course there are ones who kept their Armenianess too but they are in the minority.

[KanadaHye]

Re: History of the Armenian Genocide

Dear KanadaHye,

I respekt your ideas and agree in most of your arguments. Indeed it's important that an armenian should not forget his culture and identity where ever he lives in the world.
I guess you use the word "to embace" advised, because their is a big differance between to embace a culture or to be assimilate.

In 1983 I was for 10 days in Toronto and I like Toronto and the armenian community there.

Best regards
Hayayrun

I agree Hayayrun. To be honest, even with all the cultural events and Armenian organizations available to the youth in Toronto, they are still rather marginally Armenian in culture. Perhaps it was different in 1983.

[Hayayrun]

Re: History of the Armenian Genocide

I agree that many Armenians living in Turkey have embraced Turkish culture but it's no different than Armenians living in America that have embraced American culture or those in the Middle East who have embraced Arabic culture. I find it's a necessary evil for survival as long as they don't forget their Armenian culture and identity.

Dear KanadaHye,

I respekt your ideas and agree in most of your arguments. Indeed it's important that an armenian should not forget his culture and identity where ever he lives in the world.
I guess you use the word "to embace" advised, because their is a big differance between to embace a culture or to be assimilate.

In 1983 I was for 10 days in Toronto and I like Toronto and the armenian community there.

Best regards
Hayayrun