New program against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

[egeli]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

All you turks should agree and stick to one story about who were you or where you guys came from, because as I see each turk has invented and wrote his own history and it’s becoming kind of ridiculous.

Yes, its true. I would like to debate that very subject with you, but you seem to be too much of an extremist. By the way, I am first and foremost an individual, not just a Turk.

[egeli]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

Thank you for very interesting lecture, but got to disappoint you: didn’t say anything new to me.
My impression was that Greeks under Ottoman rule mostly have managed to maintain their religion and identity. Jannisaries or Imperial Servants were rather exclusion than the rule. (At least for Armenians). So my question was: were there Greeks who were converted to Islam and were still considered as Greeks.

Turanism is not a lie as it is the most dangerous ideology. And it is the moving force of turkish nationalism. Turks may have been in contact with our cultures but they preserved throw centuries their most bloody nature despite all that influence.

Greek Muslim = Turk. Conversions were just not limited to the palace, it happened in the tens of millions.

Turanism is just as dangerous as any ethnic nationalist ideology, including the Dashnaks.

[Mukuch]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

Mukuck, you have no idea what a Turk is. Ottomans for most of their history never, ever referred to themselves as Turks. The Ottoman Empire was an Islamic Empire that was centered in the Balkans (not Anatolia). Most people in this forum describe the Devshirme system of taking young Christian boys from their families to become either Jannisaries or Imperial Servants (Grand Viziers, etc) as slavery.

It was not. The moment Mimar Sinan (an Architect of Armenian Birth), Pargalı İbrahim Pasha (a Grand Vizier from guess where, Parga Greece), and Damat İbrahim Pasha (another Grand Vizier of Serbian birth) converted to Islam, THEY BECAME TURKS. These "slaves" became the most powerful class in the Ottoman Empire.

Ottoman Muslims were first called Turks by foreign powers. It wasn't until nationalism surfaced in the 1800s that Muslims in the Ottoman Empire created their own national heritage to compete with the indigenous ethnic nationalism of Armenians, Greeks, Serbs, etc. Of course, there is some central Asian ethnic hertiage of Turks today. But, Turks are ethnically far more related to the indigenous ethnic groups of Anatolia, the Balkan, Arabia, North Africa, and the Caucasus, than they are to central Asians.

Turanism is a lie. Turkish heritage is Islamic heritage.

Thank you for very interesting lecture, but got to disappoint you: didn’t say anything new to me.
My impression was that Greeks under Ottoman rule mostly have managed to maintain their religion and identity. Jannisaries or Imperial Servants were rather exclusion than the rule. (At least for Armenians). So my question was: were there Greeks who were converted to Islam and were still considered as Greeks.

Turanism is not a lie as it is the most dangerous ideology. And it is the moving force of turkish nationalism. Turks may have been in contact with our cultures but they preserved throw centuries their most bloody nature despite all that influence.

[Yedtarts]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

Mukuck, you have no idea what a Turk is. Ottomans for most of their history never, ever referred to themselves as Turks. The Ottoman Empire was an Islamic Empire that was centered in the Balkans (not Anatolia). Most people in this forum describe the Devshirme system of taking young Christian boys from their families to become either Jannisaries or Imperial Servants (Grand Viziers, etc) as slavery.

It was not. The moment Mimar Sinan (an Architect of Armenian Birth), Pargalı İbrahim Pasha (a Grand Vizier from guess where, Parga Greece), and Damat İbrahim Pasha (another Grand Vizier of Serbian birth) converted to Islam, THEY BECAME TURKS. These "slaves" became the most powerful class in the Ottoman Empire.

Ottoman Muslims were first called Turks by foreign powers. It wasn't until nationalism surfaced in the 1800s that Muslims in the Ottoman Empire created their own national heritage to compete with the indigenous ethnic nationalism of Armenians, Greeks, Serbs, etc. Of course, there is some central Asian ethnic hertiage of Turks today. But, Turks are ethnically far more related to the indigenous ethnic groups of Anatolia, the Balkan, Arabia, North Africa, and the Caucasus, than they are to central Asians.

Turanism is a lie. Turkish heritage is Islamic heritage.

All you turks should agree and stick to one story about who were you or where you guys came from, because as I see each turk has invented and wrote his own history and it’s becoming kind of ridiculous.

[egeli]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

No... It is just a feeling or logic that:

"My enemy's enemy is my friend."

By the way, my mother's family emigrated to Turkey from Crete Island (Greece) a few decades ago. And there was no immigration from Anatolia to Crete in Ottoman history, so at least I am half-Greek. They didn't even know how to speak Turkish when they came to Turkey. But my mothers family had to emigrate because they were Muslims, otherwise they most probably would be killed. Just wanted to let you know.

Eti, your mothers family indeed would have if they didn't emigrate to Turkey. I hope you realize that Christians in Anatolia also were in the same situation, Greeks in Western Anatolia fortunately made it out in time under the population exchanges between Greece and Turkey.

However, Armenians in Eastern Anatolia weren't so lucky. There was no Armenian state for them to emigrate to, and thus no population exchange. They along with their culture were exterminated by Eastern Anatolian Muslims who today identify themselves as Kurds. These Kurds were exploited by the wretched Turanists controlling the Ottoman State at the time.

Don't you feel any shame that a land inhabited for thousands of years by Armenians, has now absolutely no trace of their culture?

[egeli]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

Greek muslims? Interesting.... so were your mothers familly turkified Greeks? or they were just turks living in Greec?

Mukuck, you have no idea what a Turk is. Ottomans for most of their history never, ever referred to themselves as Turks. The Ottoman Empire was an Islamic Empire that was centered in the Balkans (not Anatolia). Most people in this forum describe the Devshirme system of taking young Christian boys from their families to become either Jannisaries or Imperial Servants (Grand Viziers, etc) as slavery.

It was not. The moment Mimar Sinan (an Architect of Armenian Birth), Pargalı İbrahim Pasha (a Grand Vizier from guess where, Parga Greece), and Damat İbrahim Pasha (another Grand Vizier of Serbian birth) converted to Islam, THEY BECAME TURKS. These "slaves" became the most powerful class in the Ottoman Empire.

Ottoman Muslims were first called Turks by foreign powers. It wasn't until nationalism surfaced in the 1800s that Muslims in the Ottoman Empire created their own national heritage to compete with the indigenous ethnic nationalism of Armenians, Greeks, Serbs, etc. Of course, there is some central Asian ethnic hertiage of Turks today. But, Turks are ethnically far more related to the indigenous ethnic groups of Anatolia, the Balkan, Arabia, North Africa, and the Caucasus, than they are to central Asians.

Turanism is a lie. Turkish heritage is Islamic heritage.

[Mukuch]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

No... It is just a feeling or logic that:

"My enemy's enemy is my friend."

By the way, my mother's family emigrated to Turkey from Crete Island (Greece) a few decades ago. And there was no immigration from Anatolia to Crete in Ottoman history, so at least I am half-Greek. They didn't even know how to speak Turkish when they came to Turkey. But my mothers family had to emigrate because they were Muslims, otherwise they most probably would be killed. Just wanted to let you know.

Greek muslims? Interesting.... so were your mothers familly turkified Greeks? or they were just turks living in Greec?

[Mukuch]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

Turks are closer to both Armenians and Greeks than all any other nations.

LOL turks can not be close culturally to any one except turks and other mongols as they didnt have any culture at all... they were nomads and still are.

Byzantines never let Armenians enter and live in Istanbul, Armenians first had a neighborhood in Istanbul after Ottomans conquered the city. This was the same for other nations too.

Lets begin from that Byzantium had a dynasty of Emperors of Armenian origin.... I am even not talking about Armenian generals and diplomats in Byzantium. Armenians lived in Constantinopolis since it was founded.

This was the politic of Ottmans to live together with other nations. Please learn more about Ottoman history.

Yes that is true that ottomans in early period hade let Christians to create communities in Constantinopolis as proper turks were not good in trade and any industrial production. So only way was to let Christians to tack care of it.

[Yedtarts]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

Turks are closer to both Armenians and Greeks than all any other nations. Byzantines never let Armenians enter and live in Istanbul, Armenians first had a neighborhood in Istanbul after Ottomans conquered the city. This was the same for other nations too. This was the politic of Ottmans to live together with other nations. Please learn more about Ottoman history.

Once upon a time there were the Byzantines and the Armenians there was NO turks or turkey on these territories, the turks are invaders. And then it was Constantinople and not Istanbul and the Armenians were there long before you showed up. Go read some real history before you talk.

[Eti]

Re: New pogrom against the Armenians and Greeks in Istanbul?

Armenians were culturally close to Greeks during tenth of centuries.. We didn’t have wars with Greeks sins fail of Byzantium

Turks are closer to both Armenians and Greeks than all any other nations. Byzantines never let Armenians enter and live in Istanbul, Armenians first had a neighborhood in Istanbul after Ottomans conquered the city. This was the same for other nations too. This was the politic of Ottmans to live together with other nations. Please learn more about Ottoman history.