Armenian genocide resolution introduced in the U.S. Senate

[Federate]

Re: Armenian genocide resolution introduced in the U.S. Senate

Photo caption:

Gül: Flowers from the fields of Van.

Sargsyan: Ahhh, you shouldn't have.

Looks like Turkey no longer needs the Israeli lobby to shut up those pesky Armenians in Congress, the Republic of Armenia will do it instead by basically doing what it does best: saying absolutely nothing.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons behind the recent Turkey-Israel tensions in the sense that Turkey deems Israel more expendable than ever

[AlphaPapa]

Re: Armenian genocide resolution introduced in the U.S. Senate

Looks like Turkey no longer needs the Israeli lobby to shut up those pesky Armenians in Congress, the Republic of Armenia will do it instead by basically doing what it does best: saying absolutely nothing.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons behind the recent Turkey-Israel tensions in the sense that Turkey deems Israel more expendable than ever

Great photo for that article, and good observation. Though I believe that the Israeli military controls much of the politics in Israel, and Turkeys MIT as well over Turkiye, I think that there's a lot of grass roots tension between the two extremely racist nations. They've had lovers quarrels before though and I wouldn't say that this is anything more than that.

And now I have three reasons why I support the foreign recognition of the Armenian genocide. At first, it was just the fact that Turkey denied it. Second was that they're still hostile towards Armenia and Armenians. Now, there's a third, Russian-Armenian leaders in Yerevan (Sarkisyan/Nalbandyan) are against the Armenian people, both in Hayastan and the Diaspora.

[Catharsis]

Re: Armenian genocide resolution introduced in the U.S. Senate

Looks like Turkey no longer needs the Israeli lobby to shut up those pesky Armenians in Congress, the Republic of Armenia will do it instead by basically doing what it does best: saying absolutely nothing.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons behind the recent Turkey-Israel tensions in the sense that Turkey deems Israel more expendable than ever

Indeed Federate, Turkey has went so far as to make itself present in Palestine. In an ironic twist, it might be Israel lobby now (in light of Turkish "support" of the Palestinian plight) that would be pushing for genocide recognition in the U.S., while the Sargsyan regime, by the very signing of the protocols and the "ongoing normalization process" - has already given ample ammunition to those in Obama administration that would cite it, for NOT recognizing the Armenian Genocide.

In fact as you know, they already did that last April 24, when only one or two days prior, the "roadmap" was made public and served as the perfect excuse for using a euphemism (Yeghern) instead of just recognition (as Obama had pledged during his presidential campaign).

Below Photo: Turkey opens a school in Gaza (notice the map of Palestine [all of historic borders] along with posters of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin (founder of Ḥamās) and Sultan Abdülmecid I. Highly symbolic of Turkish ambitions throughout the region at large. How far will it go? Time will tell.

[AlphaPapa]

Re: Armenian genocide resolution introduced in the U.S. Senate

Indeed Federate, Turkey has went so far as to make itself present in Palestine. In an ironic twist, it might be Israel lobby now (in light of Turkish "support" of the Palestinian plight) that would be pushing for genocide recognition in the U.S., while the Sargsyan regime, by the very signing of the protocols and the "ongoing normalization process" - has already given ample ammunition to those in Obama administration that would cite it, for NOT recognizing the Armenian Genocide.

In fact as you know, they already did that last April 24, when only one or two days prior, the "roadmap" was made public and served as the perfect excuse for using a euphemism (Yeghern) instead of just recognition (as Obama had pledged during his presidential campaign).

Below Photo: Turkey opens a school in Gaza (notice the map of Palestine [all of historic borders] along with posters of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin (founder of Ḥamās) and Sultan Abdülmecid I. Highly symbolic of Turkish ambitions throughout the region at large. How far will it go? Time will tell.

We know from previous excuses for not recognizing the genocide, that now with an Armenian government putting it aside, it'll never happen.

Regarding that photo, it will help get rid of the current muslim party that rules Turkey. Their days are numbered I believe. If they make it to March 1, I'll be surprised. Already, many plans regarding the next coup are being investigated and suppressed.

[Catharsis]

Re: Armenian genocide resolution introduced in the U.S. Senate

We know from previous excuses for not recognizing the genocide, that now with an Armenian government putting it aside, it'll never happen.

Regarding that photo, it will help get rid of the current muslim party that rules Turkey. Their days are numbered I believe. If they make it to March 1, I'll be surprised. Already, many plans regarding the next coup are being investigated and suppressed.

Yes, as we saw, Davutoglu came out and said that liberated territories of Artsakh must be given back and Artsakh must once again come under Azeri domination. Some believe that this means that the Turkish government wants more concessions from Armenia, while others point out that the Turkish parliament will not ratify the protocols until the next April 24, to once again use this pretext so President Obama does not honor his campaign pledge of genocide recognition. Obviously if AKP falls prior to this, as you are predicting, the protocols would probably be frozen or would be dissolved altogether, which would be a very good thing. I really hope you are right.

[Hellektor]

Re: Armenian genocide resolution introduced in the U.S. Senate

When are Armenians going to learn that this AG recognition thing is just a lever in the hands of Jews to push our buttons? I have said this a septillion times and I'll repeat it a zillion times more. What the... here once more and see how actual it is:

Armenians should come to their senses and press the statesmen of the Republic of Armenia to raise the issue of Woodrow Wilson arbitration. The insignificant, unbinding, worthless, useless Congress resolution gives us nothing. This is simply a lever in the hands of Jews to push the buttons of Turks or Armenians whenever needed; therefore, it's never going to pass. In fact it is nothing but the confirmation of the recognition of the Armenian Genocide that has already happened by Reagan and the majority of the states of the US.

*****

This time around they want to piss off the genocidal Turk parasite to mildly “pressure” them to pass the vicious protocols and open the borders. I bet the borders will never open (unless the destruction of the Armenian state is guaranteed), this bill will never pass and Turkey will rape the EU without recognizing Cyprus. The Anglo/Judeo/Euro/Russo-followers of the Cult of Turk Phallus Worship will never do something to hurt the tender, delicate feelings of the atrocious, nation-murdering abomination going by the four-letter insult to humanity Turk.

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian genocide resolution introduced in the U.S. Senate

When are Armenians going to learn that this AG recognition thing is just a lever in the hands of Jews to push our buttons? I have said this a septillion times and I'll repeat it a zillion times more. What the... here once more and see how actual it is:

Armenians should come to their senses and press the statesmen of the Republic of Armenia to raise the issue of Woodrow Wilson arbitration. The insignificant, unbinding, worthless, useless Congress resolution gives us nothing. This is simply a lever in the hands of Jews to push the buttons of Turks or Armenians whenever needed; therefore, it's never going to pass. In fact it is nothing but the confirmation of the recognition of the Armenian Genocide that has already happened by Reagan and the majority of the states of the US.

*****

Hellektor jan, tsavet danim yeghpayr payts inch enenk himag vor ays anidsvads protocolnere esdorakretsin mer de-mart Hayasdani nakhakahn ou Edwarde? They signed the darn "anidsabad" protocols and they have accepted the illegal damn Kars treaty. How in the world could we now make our president who already signed it away our historical Western Armenia to reverse it? "Miag tseve vor ge desnem yev vor garelioutyun ouni ayn al mer nakhararnerou chentouniln eh ayt anidsvads 'protocol'nere. Aylabes Wilson Arbitratione chenk garogh arach danel. Nakh yev arachnahertin bedk che vaveratsvin ayt anidsabad 'protocol'nere, hedo garogh enk menk bardatrel mer nakhakahin vor "Wilson Arbitration"e vaveratsenel da.

This time around they want to piss off the genocidal Turk parasite to mildly “pressure” them to pass the vicious protocols and open the borders. I bet the borders will never open (unless the destruction of the Armenian state is guaranteed), this bill will never pass and Turkey will rape the EU without recognizing Cyprus. The Anglo/Judeo/Euro/Russo-followers of the Cult of Turk Phallus Worship will never do something to hurt the tender, delicate feelings of the atrocious, nation-murdering abomination going by the four-letter insult to humanity Turk.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian genocide resolution introduced in the U.S. Senate

When are Armenians going to learn that this AG recognition thing is just a lever in the hands of Jews to push our buttons? I have said this a septillion times and I'll repeat it a zillion times more. What the... here once more and see how actual it is:

Armenians should come to their senses and press the statesmen of the Republic of Armenia to raise the issue of Woodrow Wilson arbitration. The insignificant, unbinding, worthless, useless Congress resolution gives us nothing. This is simply a lever in the hands of Jews to push the buttons of Turks or Armenians whenever needed; therefore, it's never going to pass. In fact it is nothing but the confirmation of the recognition of the Armenian Genocide that has already happened by Reagan and the majority of the states of the US.

*****

This time around they want to piss off the genocidal Turk parasite to mildly “pressure” them to pass the vicious protocols and open the borders. I bet the borders will never open (unless the destruction of the Armenian state is guaranteed), this bill will never pass and Turkey will rape the EU without recognizing Cyprus. The Anglo/Judeo/Euro/Russo-followers of the Cult of Turk Phallus Worship will never do something to hurt the tender, delicate feelings of the atrocious, nation-murdering abomination going by the four-letter insult to humanity Turk.

Hellektor we can go to court and use any legal means to get our lands back but they will fail and we'll not even get one inch of land back. The Turks will flip them of and that's all to it. We have tried the legal and getting help from other nations and look what it got us, the Armenian Genocide. We will only get our lands back when we can get our army to march there and take those lands back before that we'll not get one inch of land back. And no legal treaty or any other document will help us. history teaches us that a treaty is worth as much as the paper it's written on.

So what I'm trying to say is instead of getting to courts and waisting all those money and resources let's use that to invest in our own country and military because that is the only way we'll get something back.

And I agree the borders will not open for a very long time. It seems that the Turks tried to play dirty and it blew up in their face. They gambled and lost and now we need to find a new route in to Europe and a new way to strengthen our economy. And there we need the help of the Diaspora. They need to come and invest in the country, they need to invest in the little guy, the little companies. With that they will also help improve the social status of the country.

[Hellektor]

Re: Armenian genocide resolution introduced in the U.S. Senate

They signed the darn "anidsabad" protocols and they have accepted the illegal damn Kars treaty. How in the world could we now make our president who already signed it away our historical Western Armenia to reverse it?

The Wilson arbitration is a legally binding document not subject to appeal.

Ara Papian has written and writes extensively on the subject. Check his wilsonforarmenia.org for all his articles (most also available as PDF) and links to relevant pages.

Below, I copy/paste his recent open letter to the Heyvanoglu Ahmet Davutoglu who, as he puts it “the foreign minister of a country which has itself been occupying 37% of the territory of Cyprus for more than three decades now, not to mention three-fourths of my homeland – the Republic of Armenia – for almost nine decades”, won't stop braying like a mad ass about Armenia having to “return” “occupied” fake “Azerbaijani” territory to the sore, genocidal, warmongering “Azeri” losers, on a daily basis.

[Hellektor]

Ara Papian's Open Letter to Ahmet Davutoglu Part 1

OPEN LETTER

to the Foreign Minister of the Republic of Turkey

Mr. Ahmet Davutoglu

Respected Minister,



I read with interest the text of your speech of the 21st of October at the Grand National Assembly of Turkey. My impressions were mixed. However, I mainly felt that you wished to present what was desirable, instead of what was real.

To begin with, it was astonishing to hear of “occupation” from the foreign minister of a country which has itself been occupying 37% of the territory of Cyprus for more than three decades now, not to mention three-fourths of my homeland – the Republic of Armenia – for almost nine decades. I would like to stress that I am not referring to some abstract “Armenian lands”, but solely the territory granted to the Republic of Armenia through a document of international law, that is, the arbitral award of US President Woodrow Wilson of the 22nd of November 1920. I shall elaborate on the arbitral award later, but for now I would simply like to say that, in accordance with international law, arbitral awards are “definitive and without appeal."


Respected Minister,

While commenting on the fifth clause of protocol on the establishment of diplomatic relations between the Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Turkey, you drew the conclusion that the Republic of Armenia recognises “the existing border” according to the treaties of Moscow (of the 16th of March 1921) and Kars (of the 13th of October 1921).

This is a very arbitrary conclusion indeed. The document in question does not cite the aforementioned so-called treaties. The protocols refer only to “the relevant treaties of international law”. That is, evidently, the treaties in question must be governed by international law, at the very least not being in violation of it. Simultaneously, by referring to “the relevant treaties of international law” and not simply “international treaties”, the protocol provides a more inclusive definition, and thus brings in “the instruments of international law” in general, regardless of the kind of document, as, given the present case, we have a document known as a “protocol”. Accordingly, a “treaty” must be understood in a way separate from the term for the document, purely as a legal, written international agreement. [“Treaty” means an international agreement concluded between States in written form and governed by international law – Article 2.1(a), Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, 1969].

It is evident that “the existing border” mentioned in the protocol is not the illegal dividing line, which came about as a result of Bolshevik-Kemalist actions. Ex injuria non oritur jus, illegal acts cannot create law. “The existing border” implies that which exists in international law and in accordance with international law. Moreover, there is no only one such border between Armenia and Turkey: the border decided by the arbitral award of US President Woodrow Wilson.

The treaties of Moscow and Kars, which you mentioned in your speech, are not treaties at all from an international law point of view. In order for them to be considered as treaties, they ought to have been signed by the plenipotentiary representatives of the lawful governments of recognised states. Neither the Kemalists, nor the Bolsheviks, to say nothing of the Armenian Bolsheviks brought to power in Armenia, fulfilled the above requirement in 1921. Therefore, the act of signing those treaties was in violation of the basic principles of international law – jus cogens – at the very moment they were signed. And according to Article 53 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, 1969, which you yourself cited in your speech, “A treaty is void if, at the time of its conclusion, it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.”

Do you really believe that two unrecognised, and consequently illegal self-proclaimed administrations, as the Bolsheviks and Kemalists were in 1921, could, through a bilateral treaty (of Moscow), nullify a legally negotiated international document signed by eighteen recognised states (the Treaty of Sèvres)? Do you believe that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, for example, is a legal document? I do not think so, because two countries, namely the USSR and Germany, could not decide the borders of a third country. Then why do you believe that two rebel movements, as, I repeat, the Bolsheviks and Kemalists were in 1921, had the authority to decide in Moscow the borders of some other country, the Republic of Armenia, even if it were occupied?

Do you really believe that the Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic, as well as the Georgian and Azerbaijani Soviet Socialist Republic ever had the capacity to make treaties under international law? Of course not. Since April of 1920 (for Azerbaijan), December of 1920 (for Armenia) and February of 1921 (for Georgia), these countries were rendered simply territories of different administrative units under Russian Bolshevik occupation. In Armenia’s case, the Senate of the United States adopted outright the following by Resolution #245 on the 3rd of June, 1924: “ Turkey joined with Soviet Russia in the destruction of the Armenian State.” If there were no Republic of Armenia from the 2nd of December 1920, how could it sign an international treaty in Kars in October of 1921?

It is an indisputable fact of international law that no legal consequences are held for an occupied country by the acts of the occupiers, as “a cession of territory during occupation is not effective." There is no ambiguity in this matter.

The fact that the protocols do not make legal the situation created as a result of the Armenian Genocide and that they do not recognise any frontiers was stated outright in the address of the President of the Republic of Armenia, Serge Sargsyan, on the 10th of October 2009: “Any sort of relationship with Turkey cannot cast into doubt the reality of the dispossession and genocide of the Armenian people”, and “The issue of the current frontier between Armenia and Turkey is subject to a resolution as per prevailing international law. The protocols say nothing more than that.”

Clear and simple.

Now let us see what this “prevailing international law” is exactly, according to which “the issue of the current frontier between Armenia and Turkey is subject to a resolution.”

In order to understand this, one must return to the not-too-distant past, during that short period of time, when the international community recognised the Republic of Armenia as a state. When, on the 19th of January 1920, the Supreme Council of the Paris Peace Conference, that is, the British Empire, France and Italy, recognised the Republic of Armenia, it was done so with a certain condition, that the borders of the Republic of Armenia were to be determined soon afterwards. The US also recognised the Republic of Armenia with that same condition on the 23th of April 1920.
When it came to the borders of the Republic of Armenia, naturally, the most important was the question of the Armexnia-Turkey frontier. And so, at the San Remo session of the Paris Peace Conference, alongside other issues, this particuxlar question was discussed during the 24th to the 27th of April, 1920, and, on the 26th of April, the US President Woodrow Wilson was officially requested to arbitrate the frontiers of Armenia. On the 17th of May, 1920, President Wilson accepxted and took on the duties and authority as the arbiter of the frontier between Armenia and Turkey. I would like to espexcially emphasise that this was almost three months before the Treaty of Sèvres was signed (which took place on the 10th of August, 1920). Whether the Treaty of Sèvres would come to pass or not, the compromis of a legal arbiter existed, and consequently, the arbitral award deciding the border between Armenia and Turkey would take place. It is another matter that the Treaty of Sèvres consisted of an additional compromis. It is necessary to note that the validity of the compromis only requires the signatures of the authorised representatives and that no ratification is required for compromis.
Accordingly, based upon the compromis of San Remo (of the 26th of April, 1920), as well as that of Sèvres (of the 10th of August, 1920), US President Woodrow Wilson carried out his arbitral award on the borders between Armenia and Turkey on the 22nd of November, 1920, which was to be enforced thereupon and without reservations in accordance with the agreement (compromis).


Two days later, on the 24th of November, the award was officially conveyed by telegraph to the Paris Peace Conference for the consideration of the League of Nations. The award was accepted as such, but remained unsettled, because the beneficiary of the award – the Republic of Armenia – ceased to exist on the 2nd of December 1920.

The issue of the current status of Wilson’s arbitral award

It is necessary to state, first of all, that any arbitral award is a binding document to be carried out without reservations. Moreover, arbitral awards are “final and without appeal”. “The arbitral award is the final and binding decision by an arbitrator”.

The final and non-appealable nature of arbitral awards is codified within international law. In particular, by Article 54 of the 1899 edition and Article 81 of the 1907 edition of the Hague Convention for the Pacific Settlement of International Disputes. And so, by the arbitral award of the President of the United States Woodrow Wilson, the frontier between Armenia and Turkey has been decided for perpetuity, being in force to this day and not subject to any appeal.

Therefore, when the fifth clause of the protocol on the establishment of diplomatic relations between the Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Turkey mentions “the mutual recognition of the existing border between the two countries as defined by the relevant treaties of international law”, then that can only take into consideration the border defined by the only legal document in force to this day, the arbitral award of US President Woodrow Wilson. There is no other legal document “of international law”, as the protocol says.

There is another important issue to consider here. Have the authorities and public bodies of the USA ever expressed any position concerning President Wilson’s arbitral award deciding the border between Armenia and Turkey?

The position of the executive branch

The highest executive power of the United States not only recognised Wilson’s arbitral award, but has also ratified it and, therefore, it has become part of the law of the land of the United States. The President of the United States Woodrow Wilson and Secretary of State Bainbridge Colby ratified the award of the arbitrator Woodrow Wilson with their signatures and The Great Seal of the United States. According to international law, the personal signature of the arbitrator and his seal, if applicable, are completely sufficient as ratification of an arbitral award. Woodrow Wilson could have been satisfied with only his signature or as well as his presidential seal. In that case, the award would have been the obligation of an individual, albeit a president. However, the arbitral award is ratified with the official state seal and confirmed by the keeper of the seal, the Secretary of State. The arbitral award of Woodrow Wilson is thus an unqualified obligation of the United States of America itself.

The position of the legislative branch

Arbitral awards are not subject to any legislative approval or ratification. They are governed by international public law. Therefore, the Senate, which reserves the right to take up matters relating to foreign policy according to the US Constitution, never directly discussed the arbitral award deciding the Armenian-Turkish frontier. Nevertheless, in the course of discussing other matters, the Senate of the United States explicitly expressed its position on this award on at least one occasion.

On the 18th of January 1927, the Senate rejected the Turkish-American treaty of the 6th of August 1923, for three reasons. One of the reasons was that Turkey “failed to provide for the fulfilment of the Wilson award to Armenia”. Senator William H. King (D-UT) expressed himself much more clearly in an official statement on this occasion, “Obviously it would be unfair and unreasonable for the United States to recognize and respect the claims and professions of Kemal so long as he persist in holding control and sovereignty over Wilson Armenia.” The vote in the Senate in 1927 testifies without a doubt to the fact that Wilson’s arbitral award was a ratified award and had legal bearing in 1927. Nothing from a legal perspective has changed since then, and it thus remains in force to this day.

The position of public bodies

The most important public bodies in the United States are political parties. The main clauses of party programmes are to be found in party platforms, which are approved by the general assemblies of political parties.

The Democratic Party of the US (the party of current President Obama and Secretary of State Clinton) has official expressed a position on Wilson’s arbitral award on two occasions, in 1924 and in 1928.

In its 1924 programme, the Democratic Party included a separate clause of the “Fulfilment of President Wilson’s arbitral award respecting Armenia” as a platform and goal. The 1928 platform went even further, referring to the US as a state and, as per the “promises and engagements” of the Allied Powers, “We favour the most earnest efforts on the part of the United States to secure the fulfilment of the promises and engagements made during and following the World War by the United States and the allied powers to Armenia and her people.” The only “promise and engagement” of the United States to the Republic of Armenia was and continues to remain the arbitral award of Woodrow Wilson on the border between Armenia and Turkey.


Continued in the next post >>