Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

[Jos]

Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

He never denied anything? So first he said that he didn`t deny anything and then he wrote a column which includes his stataments that "Turks did not commit a genocide against Armenians."

So which of it is then?

You've got it back to front. Firstly he wrote the article as a journalist without taking a firm position. He was asked to clarify his position, he refused and was subsequently sacked. What personal opinion he may have after the fact is not relevant to why he was fired.

[Yedtarts]

Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

[QUOTE=Jos;288789]

If???
Look who's talking?

.... and after Hrants murder all hell did break loose in the foreign and domestic media and a million Turks took to the streets......

The point is, Turks don't fire or dismiss people, they just kill them.

[Alexandros]

Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

You've got it back to front. Firstly he wrote the article as a journalist without taking a firm position. He was asked to clarify his position, he refused and was subsequently sacked. What personal opinion he may have after the fact is not relevant to why he was fired.

There seems to be another side of this story too. According to this article, he wasn`t employed by this Dutch paper and Armand Sag is still welcome to publish on the readers pages. So therefore, Armand Sag was NOT fired as you stated:

Sure about the facts?

Published on: Sunday 17 Jan 2010, 00:19 by Fréderike Geerdink

A journalist, says Fatih Özyar, doesn’t just write an article about something he isn’t sure about. True, that’s how it should be. But is that really what happened?

Özyar writes for the biggest daily newspaper in Turkey, Hüriiyet. He is the correspondent for Hürriyet in the Netherlands. A few days ago he reported that a journalist from the Netherlands, Armand Sag, was fired from his job at a journalism website because he denied the Ottomans committed genocide against Armenians in and around 1915. Interesting, but the story didn’t contain any reaction from the concerned website, which is weird because it’s a journalism rule to always let the other side speak too. And this was quite an accusation.

So I decided to contact the website myself. I asked the editor in chief, Joshua Livestro, if it was true that Armand Sag didn’t write for the site anymore, and if so, why? Livestro’s reaction came in an email: ‘We never employed Armand Sag, he only contributed to our readers pages, like many other people. Since we didn’t employ him, we also couldn’t fire him. And if he wants to, he can still publish on our website.’

Livestro mentions that Sag was warned once after, in an articles, he selectively quoted a Dutch liberal politician, turning him into somebody supporting the Turkish stance on the Armenian issue, while in reality this politician believes there was genocide committed against the Armenians, thus actually opposing the Turkish state’s view. But that’s all. Livestro: ‘This story about me firing Armand Sag is totally made up by the Turkish nationalist press.’

My duty was clear: contact the other side. I sent Armand Sag (not a journalist, but a young historian) an email, and I called Fatih Özyar. Then I went to the opening of the festivities for Istanbul Cultural Capital of Europe 2010, and just as I got home, Özyar called me back. He said that a journalist of course doesn’t just write an article about something if he isn’t sure about the facts. ‘I got a press announcement from Armand Sag, with some attachments. There was an email from Joshua Livestro to a columnist at the website who also knows Armand Sag, and in that mail it is said that Sag should stop writing stories about the Armenian genocide. It turned out Sag had two options: either apologize for what he had written, or stop working for the site. Then Sag drew his conclusions and decided not to work for them anymore.’

But, I insist, the site says he never even worked for them and that Sag is still welcome to publish on the readers pages. Özyar says he doesn’t know the details about that. But yes, he admits that he based his story only on information coming from Armand Sag. How about asking the website for their side of the story? Özyar: ‘I mailed them several times but I couldn’t get any reaction from them.’

Weird, since the editor in chief mailed me back within an hour. And Armand Sag himself? Besides mailing him, I also contacted him via a fellow-student of his, with the request to answer my email within a day. The answer came, not from Sag but from his fellow student: ‘He is fed up with all the journalists and has turned his phone off till Tuesday.’
Link

[Jos]

Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

There seems to be another side of this story too. According to this article, he wasn`t employed by this Dutch paper and Armand Sag is still welcome to publish on the readers pages. So therefore, Armand Sag was NOT fired as you stated:

For goodness sake, the news story has become the story.... and everyone's running for cover.
Next time we'll just have to shoot the messenger

[Alexandros]

Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

For goodness sake, the news story has become the story.... and everyone's running for cover.

Except that you were the first one to reply in this thread.

Next time we'll just have to shoot the messenger

I just pointed out that there`s another side of this story than the one you are trying to defend.

[Mukuch]

Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

Get some fact straight Alexandros. Firstly, the 25 year old newly trained journalists used the words "displacement" and not deportation. Secondly he never denied anything.

Being 25 year old is not an excuse for being scum. "displacmant" or "deportation" anyway it is just play of words just to avoid calling things by their name GENOCIDE.

So much for freedom of speech. Imagine if someone of Armenian ancestry got fired in Turkey under similar circumstances, all hell would have broken loose in the foreign media.

What you call similiar circumstances?
Well in Turkey they would not fire, they would shoot.

DENYING GENOCIDE IS A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY, it has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

[Karabed]

Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

turks get this kind of treatment in the Netherlands if they deny the Armenian genocide.
During the last Dutch general election three turks were removed by their parties because they denied the Armenian genocide LINK and here is another Dutch article.
These idiots deserve it, like Mukuch said this has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It is a historical fact and therefore not an opinion. Denying it is a crime against humanity.

[Alexandros]

Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

Get some fact straight Alexandros. Firstly, the 25 year old newly trained journalists used the words "displacement" and not deportation. Secondly he never denied anything.

So much for freedom of speech. Imagine if someone of Armenian ancestry got fired in Turkey under similar circumstances, all hell would have broken loose in the foreign media.

Dutch MP on trial for 'hate speech'

UPDATED ON:Wednesday, January 20, 2010

Geert Wilders, a right-wing Dutch MP, has appeared in an Amsterdam court on charges of inciting hatred against Muslims.

The Freedom Party leader is standing trial after a court overruled a decision by the public prosecutor, who had argued Wilders was protected by the right to free speech.

Wilders is being charged over his 2008 film Fitna, which urged Muslims to tear out "hate-filled" passages from the Quran and juxtaposes images of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the US with quotations from the text.

Writing on his website before the trial on Wednesday, the MP said he would "remain combative and still convinced that this political process will only lead to an acquittal".

His supporters have staged demonstrations outside the court, holding banners saying "Freedom Yes", arguing that his prosecution would be an assault on freedom of speech.

An anti-racism group has also responded to the trial by placing 100 comments from Wilders online to back up its allegations that the MP is guilty of inciting immigrant hate and discrimination.

'Anti-Islamic'

Fitna is an Arabic word which has numerous meanings including "sedition" and "temptation", and appears in the Quran.

Its release prompted protests in Pakistan, Iran, Indonesia and Afghanistan, while Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations secretary-general, described the film as "offensively anti-Islamic".

Wilders has previously sparked outrage over other anti-Islamic comments in the media, including calling for a ban on the Quran and comparing the book to Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf.

Wilders has become one of the Netherland's leading politicians, with his party emerging last year as the country's second-largest party in the European Parliament.

Recent polls have also indicated the Freedom Party stands a chance to become the largest in the Dutch Parliament in national elections due in May 2011.

If convicted, Wilders would face a maximum sentence of 15 months.

Link

Yes Jos, so much of freedom of speech.

[Jos]

Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

Yes Jos, so much of freedom of speech.

Alexandros, your alluding to some sort of contradiction on my part. My position was quite clear. I'll repeat what I wrote earlier:

"It depends on the context and I wouldn't have any objections as long as it wasn't derived purely from hate or racism."

It doesn't appear to me that Armand Sag was motivated by racism. I can't say the same about Geert Wilders.

[Alexandros]

Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

Alexandros, your alluding to some sort of contradiction on my part. My position was quite clear. I'll repeat what I wrote earlier:

"It depends on the context and I wouldn't have any objections as long as it wasn't derived purely from hate or racism."

It doesn't appear to me that Armand Sag was motivated by racism. I can't say the same about Geert Wilders.

Well, there`s also another side of this story, something you seem to dismiss, no?