Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #11
    Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

    Originally posted by Alexandros View Post
    He never denied anything? So first he said that he didn`t deny anything and then he wrote a column which includes his stataments that "Turks did not commit a genocide against Armenians."

    So which of it is then?
    You've got it back to front. Firstly he wrote the article as a journalist without taking a firm position. He was asked to clarify his position, he refused and was subsequently sacked. What personal opinion he may have after the fact is not relevant to why he was fired.

    Comment


    • #12
      Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

      [QUOTE=Jos;288789]
      Originally posted by Yedtarts View Post
      If???
      Look who's talking?

      .... and after Hrants murder all hell did break loose in the foreign and domestic media and a million Turks took to the streets......
      The point is, Turks don't fire or dismiss people, they just kill them.

      Comment


      • #13
        Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

        Originally posted by Jos View Post
        You've got it back to front. Firstly he wrote the article as a journalist without taking a firm position. He was asked to clarify his position, he refused and was subsequently sacked. What personal opinion he may have after the fact is not relevant to why he was fired.
        There seems to be another side of this story too. According to this article, he wasn`t employed by this Dutch paper and Armand Sag is still welcome to publish on the readers pages. So therefore, Armand Sag was NOT fired as you stated:


        Sure about the facts?

        Published on: Sunday 17 Jan 2010, 00:19 by Fréderike Geerdink

        A journalist, says Fatih Özyar, doesn’t just write an article about something he isn’t sure about. True, that’s how it should be. But is that really what happened?

        Özyar writes for the biggest daily newspaper in Turkey, Hüriiyet. He is the correspondent for Hürriyet in the Netherlands. A few days ago he reported that a journalist from the Netherlands, Armand Sag, was fired from his job at a journalism website because he denied the Ottomans committed genocide against Armenians in and around 1915. Interesting, but the story didn’t contain any reaction from the concerned website, which is weird because it’s a journalism rule to always let the other side speak too. And this was quite an accusation.

        So I decided to contact the website myself. I asked the editor in chief, Joshua Livestro, if it was true that Armand Sag didn’t write for the site anymore, and if so, why? Livestro’s reaction came in an email: ‘We never employed Armand Sag, he only contributed to our readers pages, like many other people. Since we didn’t employ him, we also couldn’t fire him. And if he wants to, he can still publish on our website.’

        Livestro mentions that Sag was warned once after, in an articles, he selectively quoted a Dutch liberal politician, turning him into somebody supporting the Turkish stance on the Armenian issue, while in reality this politician believes there was genocide committed against the Armenians, thus actually opposing the Turkish state’s view. But that’s all. Livestro: ‘This story about me firing Armand Sag is totally made up by the Turkish nationalist press.’

        My duty was clear: contact the other side. I sent Armand Sag (not a journalist, but a young historian) an email, and I called Fatih Özyar. Then I went to the opening of the festivities for Istanbul Cultural Capital of Europe 2010, and just as I got home, Özyar called me back. He said that a journalist of course doesn’t just write an article about something if he isn’t sure about the facts. ‘I got a press announcement from Armand Sag, with some attachments. There was an email from Joshua Livestro to a columnist at the website who also knows Armand Sag, and in that mail it is said that Sag should stop writing stories about the Armenian genocide. It turned out Sag had two options: either apologize for what he had written, or stop working for the site. Then Sag drew his conclusions and decided not to work for them anymore.’

        But, I insist, the site says he never even worked for them and that Sag is still welcome to publish on the readers pages. Özyar says he doesn’t know the details about that. But yes, he admits that he based his story only on information coming from Armand Sag. How about asking the website for their side of the story? Özyar: ‘I mailed them several times but I couldn’t get any reaction from them.’

        Weird, since the editor in chief mailed me back within an hour. And Armand Sag himself? Besides mailing him, I also contacted him via a fellow-student of his, with the request to answer my email within a day. The answer came, not from Sag but from his fellow student: ‘He is fed up with all the journalists and has turned his phone off till Tuesday.’
        Link

        Comment


        • #14
          Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

          Originally posted by Alexandros View Post
          There seems to be another side of this story too. According to this article, he wasn`t employed by this Dutch paper and Armand Sag is still welcome to publish on the readers pages. So therefore, Armand Sag was NOT fired as you stated:
          For goodness sake, the news story has become the story.... and everyone's running for cover.
          Next time we'll just have to shoot the messenger

          Comment


          • #15
            Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

            Originally posted by Jos View Post
            For goodness sake, the news story has become the story.... and everyone's running for cover.
            Except that you were the first one to reply in this thread.

            Next time we'll just have to shoot the messenger
            I just pointed out that there`s another side of this story than the one you are trying to defend.

            Comment


            • #16
              Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

              Originally posted by Jos View Post
              Get some fact straight Alexandros. Firstly, the 25 year old newly trained journalists used the words "displacement" and not deportation. Secondly he never denied anything.
              Being 25 year old is not an excuse for being scum. "displacmant" or "deportation" anyway it is just play of words just to avoid calling things by their name GENOCIDE.


              Originally posted by Jos View Post
              So much for freedom of speech. Imagine if someone of Armenian ancestry got fired in Turkey under similar circumstances, all hell would have broken loose in the foreign media.
              What you call similiar circumstances?
              Well in Turkey they would not fire, they would shoot.

              DENYING GENOCIDE IS A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY, it has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

              Comment


              • #17
                Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

                turks get this kind of treatment in the Netherlands if they deny the Armenian genocide.
                During the last Dutch general election three turks were removed by their parties because they denied the Armenian genocide LINK and here is another Dutch article.
                These idiots deserve it, like Mukuch said this has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It is a historical fact and therefore not an opinion. Denying it is a crime against humanity.

                Comment


                • #18
                  Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

                  Originally posted by Jos View Post
                  Get some fact straight Alexandros. Firstly, the 25 year old newly trained journalists used the words "displacement" and not deportation. Secondly he never denied anything.

                  So much for freedom of speech. Imagine if someone of Armenian ancestry got fired in Turkey under similar circumstances, all hell would have broken loose in the foreign media.
                  Dutch MP on trial for 'hate speech'

                  UPDATED ON:Wednesday, January 20, 2010

                  Geert Wilders, a right-wing Dutch MP, has appeared in an Amsterdam court on charges of inciting hatred against Muslims.

                  The Freedom Party leader is standing trial after a court overruled a decision by the public prosecutor, who had argued Wilders was protected by the right to free speech.

                  Wilders is being charged over his 2008 film Fitna, which urged Muslims to tear out "hate-filled" passages from the Quran and juxtaposes images of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the US with quotations from the text.

                  Writing on his website before the trial on Wednesday, the MP said he would "remain combative and still convinced that this political process will only lead to an acquittal".

                  His supporters have staged demonstrations outside the court, holding banners saying "Freedom Yes", arguing that his prosecution would be an assault on freedom of speech.

                  An anti-racism group has also responded to the trial by placing 100 comments from Wilders online to back up its allegations that the MP is guilty of inciting immigrant hate and discrimination.

                  'Anti-Islamic'

                  Fitna is an Arabic word which has numerous meanings including "sedition" and "temptation", and appears in the Quran.

                  Its release prompted protests in Pakistan, Iran, Indonesia and Afghanistan, while Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations secretary-general, described the film as "offensively anti-Islamic".

                  Wilders has previously sparked outrage over other anti-Islamic comments in the media, including calling for a ban on the Quran and comparing the book to Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf.

                  Wilders has become one of the Netherland's leading politicians, with his party emerging last year as the country's second-largest party in the European Parliament.

                  Recent polls have also indicated the Freedom Party stands a chance to become the largest in the Dutch Parliament in national elections due in May 2011.

                  If convicted, Wilders would face a maximum sentence of 15 months.

                  Link
                  Yes Jos, so much of freedom of speech.

                  Comment


                  • #19
                    Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

                    Originally posted by Alexandros View Post
                    Yes Jos, so much of freedom of speech.
                    Alexandros, your alluding to some sort of contradiction on my part. My position was quite clear. I'll repeat what I wrote earlier:

                    "It depends on the context and I wouldn't have any objections as long as it wasn't derived purely from hate or racism."

                    It doesn't appear to me that Armand Sag was motivated by racism. I can't say the same about Geert Wilders.

                    Comment


                    • #20
                      Re: Turk dismissed in Netherlands for using term deportation instead of genocide

                      Originally posted by Jos View Post
                      Alexandros, your alluding to some sort of contradiction on my part. My position was quite clear. I'll repeat what I wrote earlier:

                      "It depends on the context and I wouldn't have any objections as long as it wasn't derived purely from hate or racism."

                      It doesn't appear to me that Armand Sag was motivated by racism. I can't say the same about Geert Wilders.
                      Well, there`s also another side of this story, something you seem to dismiss, no?

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X