Innocent Until Proven Guilty

[Timetells]

Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

We don't negotiate with terrorists.

In actuality, this statement though directed at me much better reflects the kind of person you are and anyone who is sensible would think likewise.

[Virgil]

Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

In actuality, this statement though directed at me much better reflects the kind of person you are and anyone who is sensible would think likewise.

Lets get somthing straight, you have no moral authority, any person that justifies genocide and oppression does not hold any weight over moral questions.

[Timetells]

Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Curious, were you born with your current opinions? Or did you acquire them over the years of your life? as information was presented to you? In order to understand and formulate your opinion did you not ask questions? or did you simply accept things as fact without ever considering other points of view?

Is that your idea of justice? don't ask questions, don't discuss, don't learn just believe what we say and if you don't you are a terrorist?

...

[Sip]

Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Timetells, you REALLY need to read about this subjet. I can guarantee you ANYONE who denies the facts of the Armenian Genocide falls into one or more of the following 3 categories:

1. Those who have something to gain through the denial (like Turkey and it's allies)
2. Those who have been brainwashed by Turkish propaganda from an early age.
3. Complete idiots.

[Timetells]

Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Sip,

You can take all three of your points and make the similar claims but directed towards Armenians and nations who support the Armenian genocide.


1. Nations that recognize the genocide do so because of powerful Armenian lobbyists, or have something to gain politically (Turkey's EU bid) or in Armenian's case, perhaps genocide is a prelude to the reanimation of the Sevres Treaty (territorial concessions from Turkey)

2. Genocide supporters know very little about the subject or should I say very little about the other view, probably most have been taught it since an early age.

3. I wont' say idiots because I don't feel there are any idiots on this subject if the person is trying to honestly learn about it.

Instead there is misinformation out there, the truth is there and perhaps it is not 100% what Armenians think nor what Turks think. The important thing is to be objective and not let your emotions get the best of you when discussing it.

Ironically, I have had discussions with some Turks are are very like some of the Armenians here. If you do not accept their view you are anti-Turkish, not Turkish etc... These are the elements on both sides that prevent resolutions.

[Virgil]

Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Ironically, I have had discussions with some Turks are are very like some of the Armenians here. If you do not accept their view you are anti-Turkish, not Turkish etc... These are the elements on both sides that prevent resolutions.

Incidently, did you come to this conclusion before or after you mistook your reflection in the mirror for another Turk?

1. Nations that recognize the genocide do so because of powerful Armenian lobbyists, or have something to gain politically (Turkey's EU bid) or in Armenian's case, perhaps genocide is a prelude to the reanimation of the Sevres Treaty (territorial concessions from Turkey)

2. Genocide supporters know very little about the subject or should I say very little about the other view, probably most have been taught it since an early age.

If you are a progress Turk xyz, dear god, what kind of monster is the non-progress Turk xyz? The first and second points are typical propaganda used by Turks to intimidate Non-Armenians into favoring the denialist stance.

[Timetells]

Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Virgil,

You assume things about me but not based on what I have posted here. In actuality I have never denied or accepted anything on this subject and if you read the thread in its entirety you would have noted that I am exploring both points of view.

Perhaps this is an Anatolian trait: I have been brought up to believe this point of view, if anyone dares to discuss it then they are my enemy, they are terrorists, they are monsters etc etc etc... I see this frame of mind with both Armenians and Turks. Perhaps that is the reason so little progress is made on this...

[Virgil]

Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Virgil,

You assume things about me but not based on what I have posted here. In actuality I have never denied or accepted anything on this subject and if you read the thread in its entirety you would have noted that I am exploring both points of view.

Perhaps this is an Anatolian trait: I have been brought up to believe this point of view, if anyone dares to discuss it then they are my enemy, they are terrorists, they are monsters etc etc etc... I see this frame of mind with both Armenians and Turks. Perhaps that is the reason so little progress is made on this...

I don't assume squat, you want my respect and honest opinion, you accept the Genocide as a fact, there is no debate, a crime against humanity was commited. Then once you have done this, you apologize to the Armenian state and people. Finally, you place some sincerity behind your apology by handing over some level of compensation.

No, dishonesty is not a "Anatolian trait", get this through your head.

[Sip]

Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

3. I wont' say idiots because I don't feel there are any idiots on this subject if the person is trying to honestly learn about it.

Look in the mirror. I have tried very hard to educate you but you just don't want to learn it seems. That makes YOU the idiot. The end.

[Timetells]

Re: Innocent Until Proven Guilty

Virgil,

Every person when born is innocent of any crimes. If a person commits a crime then they are held accountable for it, not their entire family and surely not future generations of their family. That is not justice.

Asking apologies from people just based on their race is racism.