Armenia, Azerbaijan `Close To Karabakh Deal'

[Hovik]

Territorial gambling is a mortal threat for future of Armenian statehood

Territorial gambling is a mortal threat for future of Armenian statehood

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ “Any attempts of political gambling or speculations to surrender the liberated territories by no means provide a sensible solution to the Nagorno Karabakh conflict. On the contrary, they represent a mortal threat not only to the future of Artsakh but also to the integrity of the Armenian statehood,” says the statement of Armenian Internet resources entitled “Against the Surrender of the Liberated Territories”. In particular, the document reads as follows, “Trapped in the swamp of “constructive negotiations” Armenian politicians do nothing but endanger the very existence of the Armenian nation and make us involuntarily witnesses to what can be described as a modern “Munich Agreement”, which could leave us in a strategic deadlock and most surely contribute to an unleashing of a new aggressions against both the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic and the Republic of Armenia.

Today, on May 28th, when Armenians all over the world proudly celebrate the creation of the first Armenian Republic of 1918, we would also like to remind of the disgraceful end of that very same republic in 1920. Because of the “courtesy” of “constructive compromises” and “diplomatic maneuvers” by then Armenian government, Kars, Igdyr, the holy Mount Ararat and the ancient capital Ani were surrendered without firing a single shot. And as a result tens of thousands lives had perished in vain.

We demand and urge the current government and political leaders call an immediate halt to any discussions or negotiations regarding the possible surrender of the liberated regions of Artsakh. We also insist on complete declassification of the information for the ongoing negotiations in view of the fact that concealment of any information vital for the future of the Armenian nation is utterly unacceptable.

Any politician or public officer, regardless of his/her previous honors for serving the nation, who should openly declare or demonstrate a willingness to surrender Armenian lands, will be regarded a national traitor and a blatant enemy of the state.”
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[Hovik]

My observations

Well I just returned to Yerevan from 3 days in Artsakh. What can I say? I was floored. I never could've imagined the beauty that I found there... The idea that every corner of our small nation is unique, is completely true. But that isn't what impressed me. What impressed me was how fast they are rebuilding there, and the high spirits with which everyone approaches one another. There is a positive air and high morale. Patriotism and National pride can be seen at every turn. The streets are clean, hotels and apartments that can be rented by the night, have every single convenience we appreciate in the west. Many of our churches and cultural icons have been renovated and many more are being worked on. Even Shushi's mosque was surrounded by trucks and cranes as it was being renovated, and I'm sure will be beautiful when complete. Everywhere we went we were greeted with smiles, hope and determination were in the air. At one place when entering Artsakh there is a monument with a key-shaped hole in it - known as the Keys to Artsakh. As I stood there, I couldn't help but be overwhelmed by the simple notion that so many of our brothers and sisters went to our defense, knowing they'd die, so that they could give us the gift of life, freedom and an independent homeland.

To anyone who hasn't been already, you simply must go and see it for yourself. Forget about letting other things get in the way, just go. Time slips by so fast when we get caught up in our fast-paced lives. Take a time out and accept this great gift that has been paid for you by the blood of your brothers and sisters... It's your obligation.

[Joseph]

Well I just returned to Yerevan from 3 days in Artsakh. What can I say? I was floored. I never could've imagined the beauty that I found there... The idea that every corner of our small nation is unique, is completely true. But that isn't what impressed me. What impressed me was how fast they are rebuilding there, and the high spirits with which everyone approaches one another. There is a positive air and high morale. Patriotism and National pride can be seen at every turn. The streets are clean, hotels and apartments that can be rented by the night, have every single convenience we appreciate in the west. Many of our churches and cultural icons have been renovated and many more are being worked on. Even Shushi's mosque was surrounded by trucks and cranes as it was being renovated, and I'm sure will be beautiful when complete. Everywhere we went we were greeted with smiles, hope and determination were in the air. At one place when entering Artsakh there is a monument with a key-shaped hole in it - known as the Keys to Artsakh. As I stood there, I couldn't help but be overwhelmed by the simple notion that so many of our brothers and sisters went to our defense, knowing they'd die, so that they could give us the gift of life, freedom and an independent homeland.

To anyone who hasn't been already, you simply must go and see it for yourself. Forget about letting other things get in the way, just go. Time slips by so fast when we get caught up in our fast-paced lives. Take a time out and accept this great gift that has been paid for you by the blood of your brothers and sisters... It's your obligation.

Awesome, awesome, awesome...I'm glad you had a great trip Hovik. My folks are heading to Armenia and Artsakh in late June and I'm jealous, especially about Artsakh.

[Joseph]

I would say after reading something like this, the chances of Armenians making any more concessions is next to impossible.





Settlement on Nagorno-Karabakh is not enough for Ankara to open border with Armenia
Friday, June 1, 2007

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=74715

The Minsk group is pressing on Armenia and Azerbaijan for a settlement on Nagorno-Karabakh, which might oblige Turkey to open its border with Armenia

DUYGU GÜVENÇ
ANKARA - Turkish Daily News


Armenian and Azerbaijani leaders are due to meet in St. Petersburg, Russia on June 9 to talk on the basic principles of the settlement on Nagorno-Karabakh, which if successful will force Turkey to open its border with Armenia.

While encouraging Baku to find a solution to the Nagorno-Karabakh problem through negotiations, Turkey does not expect any promising step to come out of the meeting and does not find it adequate to open the border that it closed in 1993 in response to the Armenian invasion of Nagorno-Karabakh.

“The settlement may help normalization but this would not be sufficient in itself,” a well-placed Turkish diplomat told the Turkish Daily News yesterday. Turkey additionally insists on Armenia giving up claims of an alleged genocide, and dropping claims on Turkey's lands.

“If they agree on the settlement, then Turkey has to give an award by opening its border which was closed in 1993,” said Ömer Lüthem, retired ambassador and chairman of the institute for Armenian Research at ASAM.

A peaceful solution to Nagorno-Karabakh is one of the preconditions set by Ankara for establishing diplomatic relations with Yerevan.

The presence of Armenian President Robert Kocharian in St. Petersburg is definite while Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev is expected to declare his decision soon. The two leaders will continue talks on the basic principles of the settlement under the auspices of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe's (OSCE) Minsk Group co-chaired by Russia, France and the United States.



Status of Karabakh is a barrier to a settlement.

If the two leaders can agree on the status of Nagorno-Karabakh, the withdrawal of Armenian forces from seven nearby regions around Nagorno-Karabakh is expected to be resolved easily, said Ömer Lüthem.

However diplomatic sources based in Ankara do not expect a swift solution pointing to other problems such as the timing of withdrawal of Armenian forces from seven regions, the corridor problem between Azerbaijan and Armenia, the timing of the referendum and the return of refugees and so on.



Baku and Ankara in touch before the meeting

Turkey is encouraging Baku to find a solution through negotiations but is not optimistic about the St. Petersburg meeting.

Close allies, Ankara and Baku continue consultations prior to the meeting between Azerbaijani and Armenian leaders in St. Petersburg on June 9 and Turkey is supporting a solution through negotiations, said the diplomat noting that Turkey is also a member of OSCE.

The Minsk Group was created in 1992 by the OSCE to bring about a peaceful resolution to the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, which broke out in 1988 due to Armenia's territorial claims in Azerbaijan.

[Steph]

Surprise, surprise

Turkey rushes to peacekeeping mission in Nagorno Karabakh
02.06.2007 13:30 GMT+04:00

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ “In case if NATO decides to carry out a peacekeeping mission in Nagorno Karabakh, Turkish soldiers will participate in it with pleasure,” head of the Turkish delegation in NATO Parliament Assembly, member of the ruling Justice and Development (AKP) party Vahid Erdem stated.

Meanwhile it is worth underlining that only OSCE has a mandate for peacekeping mission but the organization does not have peacekeeping forces as such. The United Nations and NATO have peacekeeping forces. However neither the UN or NATO has peacekeeping mandate in Karabakh. The matter is which organization will carry out that operation. The second problem is the following: the conflicting sides came to an understanding that the OSCE Minsk Group countries and neighboring states (i.e. Turkey, Iran and Georgia) cannot participate in the peacekeeping mission. So it means that Turkey’s statements are baseless.


"The turkish head of delegation was also licking his lips and curling his tail".

[Joseph]

Turkey rushes to peacekeeping mission in Nagorno Karabakh
02.06.2007 13:30 GMT+04:00

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ “In case if NATO decides to carry out a peacekeeping mission in Nagorno Karabakh, Turkish soldiers will participate in it with pleasure,” head of the Turkish delegation in NATO Parliament Assembly, member of the ruling Justice and Development (AKP) party Vahid Erdem stated.

Meanwhile it is worth underlining that only OSCE has a mandate for peacekeping mission but the organization does not have peacekeeping forces as such. The United Nations and NATO have peacekeeping forces. However neither the UN or NATO has peacekeeping mandate in Karabakh. The matter is which organization will carry out that operation. The second problem is the following: the conflicting sides came to an understanding that the OSCE Minsk Group countries and neighboring states (i.e. Turkey, Iran and Georgia) cannot participate in the peacekeeping mission. So it means that Turkey’s statements are baseless.


"The turkish head of delegation was also licking his lips and curling his tail".

I guess invading Northern Iraq won't be good enough for them.

I highly doubt they would ever be deployed as peacekeepers to the region, especially since they are more or less a party to the conflict though the Turks surely want to be there for obvious and nefarious reasons.

"The Turkish head of the delegation said he if they were given this mandate, they would feel like Michael Jackson at a Boy Scout jamboree"

[Helen]

Is this all true? I phoned Armenia, noone has heard anything, no rumours either...but the press insists it is info blockade and the govt is bribed...
I remember we heard many times things like that in Armenia...but still...

On May 26, 2007 the Azerbaijani FM made a statement that Armenia and Azerbaijan had come to an agreement over the Nagorno Karabakh conflict resolution, according to which the Armenian side will hand over 7 former Azerbaijani districts of historical Artsakh land back to Azerbaijan, which our brothers liberated from the Turks during the bloody Artsakh war. The Armenian military force will be replaced by an international peacekeeping mission.

http://www.today.az/news/politics/41398.html

Simultaneously, according to Azerbaijani press, Minsk Group representatives made similar statements in Baku: http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=22444

A few days ago, the President of Artsakh made a statement, in which he tried to assure people that Kashatagh (Lachin corridor) will not be given to Azerbaijan: http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=22368

On June 1, 2007 the Associated Press cited the OSCE Minsk Group Co-chair of the USA Matthew Bryza: "If the St. Petersburg meeting (of Azerbaijani and Armenian presidents, scheduled on June 9, 2007) is successful, then the number of differences remaining on basic principles could be reduced to close to zero" and that the two sides have agreed on the return of districts surrounding NK that are also under ethnic Armenian control. http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...Azerbaijan.php

Besides being historical Armenian lands liberated for the first time in contemporary Armenian history, these districts constitute a security guaranty for Artsakh and its population. More on the strategic significance of these territories here: http://www.regnum.ru/english/679147.html.

On the unacceptability of foreign "peacekeeping" forces in/around NK here: http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=22472.

In order to prevent the surrender of lands that will lead to the loss of Artsakh and a consequent loss of both Armenian statehoods, a group of Armenian activists has started a protest movement. The Online part of the protest actions comprises a statement-petition prepared by Armenian web-forums. We call upon individuals, organizations, web portals to join our protest and sign the petition here:

http://www.miacum.ru

[Joseph]

Is this all true? I phoned Armenia, noone has heard anything, no rumours either...but the press insists it is info blockade and the govt is bribed...
I remember we heard many times things like that in Armenia...but still...

On May 26, 2007 the Azerbaijani FM made a statement that Armenia and Azerbaijan had come to an agreement over the Nagorno Karabakh conflict resolution, according to which the Armenian side will hand over 7 former Azerbaijani districts of historical Artsakh land back to Azerbaijan, which our brothers liberated from the Turks during the bloody Artsakh war. The Armenian military force will be replaced by an international peacekeeping mission.

http://www.today.az/news/politics/41398.html

Simultaneously, according to Azerbaijani press, Minsk Group representatives made similar statements in Baku: http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=22444

A few days ago, the President of Artsakh made a statement, in which he tried to assure people that Kashatagh (Lachin corridor) will not be given to Azerbaijan: http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=22368

On June 1, 2007 the Associated Press cited the OSCE Minsk Group Co-chair of the USA Matthew Bryza: "If the St. Petersburg meeting (of Azerbaijani and Armenian presidents, scheduled on June 9, 2007) is successful, then the number of differences remaining on basic principles could be reduced to close to zero" and that the two sides have agreed on the return of districts surrounding NK that are also under ethnic Armenian control. http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...Azerbaijan.php

Besides being historical Armenian lands liberated for the first time in contemporary Armenian history, these districts constitute a security guaranty for Artsakh and its population. More on the strategic significance of these territories here: http://www.regnum.ru/english/679147.html.

On the unacceptability of foreign "peacekeeping" forces in/around NK here: http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=22472.

In order to prevent the surrender of lands that will lead to the loss of Artsakh and a consequent loss of both Armenian statehoods, a group of Armenian activists has started a protest movement. The Online part of the protest actions comprises a statement-petition prepared by Armenian web-forums. We call upon individuals, organizations, web portals to join our protest and sign the petition here:

http://www.miacum.ru

This conflict is going the way of the Cyprus conflict, meaning that there will be no final solutions. Neither side will give an inch and both sides are preparing for the long haul. The Armenians will continue to fortify the region, build up its defensive capabilities and grow the economy. The Azeris will continue to clamor for war and do nothing. The conflict is intractable. Others will disagree but they are the ones that know next to nothing about the region. We are talking about a zero-sum game.

The current administration (or any that hope to survive) will not abandon Artsakh. There would be a coup immmediately if that were to happen.

Turkish troops will not be deployed by NATO to the region. NATO is not currently part of the negotiating process (which is under the auspices of the OSCE) and it's highly doubtful that they even if they were involved, invite Turkish troops for "peace-keeping" operations. The article is in refernce to an interview that was conducted in the Azeri press where a Turkish official said Turkey would like to be deployed to the region. The chances of it happening are slim to none...but the image is horrifying nonetheless.

BTW, if this were to happen, the Russians would go crazy.

[Steph]

This conflict is going the way of the Cyprus conflict, meaning that there will be no final solutions. Neither side will give an inch and both sides are preparing for the long haul. The Armenians will continue to fortify the region, build up its defensive capabilities and grow the economy. The Azeris will continue to clamor for war and do nothing. The conflict is intractable. Others will disagree but they are the ones that know next to nothing about the region. We are talking about a zero-sum game.

The current administration (or any that hope to survive) will not abandon Artsakh. There would be a coup immmediately if that were to happen.

Turkish troops will not be deployed by NATO to the region. NATO is not currently part of the negotiating process (which is under the auspices of the OSCE) and it's highly doubtful that they even if they were involved, invite Turkish troops for "peace-keeping" operations. The article is in refernce to an interview that was conducted in the Azeri press where a Turkish official said Turkey would like to be deployed to the region. The chances of it happening are slim to none...but the image is horrifying nonetheless.

BTW, if this were to happen, the Russians would go crazy.

Indeed, Joseph, nice summary.

[Gavur]

On June 1, 2007 the Associated Press cited the OSCE Minsk Group Co-chair of the USA Matthew Bryza: "If the St. Petersburg meeting (of Azerbaijani and Armenian presidents, scheduled on June 9, 2007) is successful, then the number of differences remaining on basic principles could be reduced to close to zero" and that the two sides have agreed on the return of districts surrounding NK that are also under ethnic Armenian control. http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...Azerbaijan.php

That incapable bastard should use a capital I on that if!