"There is a Real Fear of Radical Imams"
The recent riots across France have raised new questions about the integration of immigrants into European society. Muslims have faced particular scrutiny following terrorist attacks in Spain and Britain. SPIEGEL ONLINE interviewed Jytte Klausen, the author of a new book looking at the challenges from the perspective of European Muslim leaders.
AP
A British Muslim boy listens as his father reads from the Koran in London.
Danish-American academic Jytte Klausen has spent the past two years exploring the issues surrounding the integration of Muslims in Europe. In the course of her research, she has spoken to more than 300 of Europe's leading Muslims -- members of parliament, community activists, religious leaders, as well doctors and lawyers. Her new book, The Islamic Challenge: Politics and Religion in Western Europe, offers their perspectives on the difficulties facing the Islamic communities and investigates what can be done to fix them.
SPIEGEL: You seemed quite surprised to discover that many of the members of this "Muslim elite" you questioned were not part of the second generation of immigrants, as you had expected, but were actually fairly recent first generation immigrants. What does this tell us about Muslims in European society?
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Klausen: Many of the people I spoke to had come to Europe in their twenties, either as political refugees or as students. They were already educated, and that was critical for their self-esteem, that they already had that faith in themselves. There was a real difference between those Muslims who had moved to Europe and those who were born there. Those who had moved here would say to me: "Things are much worse where I came from. Here I can sit and talk to you without worrying about the police." By contrast, the people born in Europe did not take that view -- they were much more likely to say: "Europe has made all these promises to us and hasn't kept them." They were much angrier, and scored much higher in all the alienation tests I used.
SPIEGEL: And what does it mean for that second generation, whose parents came to Europe presumably for a better life, are they becoming a lost generation, an underclass? And if so, what can be done about it?
Klausen: In Europe, we have an education system which we have relied on in the past as a means of integration and a gateway to opportunity for all sorts of people. I myself am the first generation of my family to be university educated, and I only got a degree because it was free. My family did not have to pay for it. I think we have to think very carefully about why the education system is not working for the younger generation. Many of the leaders I talked to stressed there was a lack of early integration into politics, through youth groups and so on, saying it is not happening for young Muslims because the established political groups are skeptical, mistrustful of Muslims, they are aware of the political consequences of having Muslims elected to political offices and promoting them to leadership positions, even in youth groups. One exception to that rule was in Sweden, where the trade unions and other political groups have really encouraged young Muslims to get involved, but I didn't see that anywhere else, and I think it is very important that parties and groups start promoting Muslims to political positions.
SPIEGEL: Obviously if those groups start doing that now, it will be good news for youngsters who are in their early teens, but what about those who have gotten lost in between? Is there a serious threat, of further home-grown terror attacks like in London and Amsterdam and of the emergence of what some are calling a "Generation Jihad"?
Klausen: Yes. Two years ago when I started on the work for this book, I realized that there are many large cities in Europe that have a quarter to three-quarters of the population living without civil rights. They are living in highly socially and economically segregated areas with no mobility at all. I thought then that in many ways, Europe was like America prior to the civil rights movement. This was prior to the riots, but there was a real sense that this is a ticking time bomb and nobody is paying attention and it will lead to violence. There is a stark difference between the rioters and the terrorists, though. The only thing they have in common at all is that they are predominantly Muslim. The terrorists are better educated, many of them actually have jobs, they have all traveled internationally -- to Pakistan for example -- they are very international. By contrast the rioters are terribly domestic, very isolated.
SPIEGEL: One of the big problems you focus on is the lack of proper religious leadership in the form of properly trained imams in Europe who speak the language of the country they are working and preaching in.
DDP
A mosque in Essen.
Klausen: There is a real fear of radical imams. I spoke to a lot of people who were worried their children would fall into the hands of the radical imams because they are already alienated -- one woman told me her son had come home and said to her, "They all think I am a Muslim, they all expect the worst from me, that I am a radical, so I might as well do it." People think they can't take their children to the mosque and give them a version of Islam that is compatible with having proper aspirations for themselves in terms of education and integration. And then there is the language issue -- another man I spoke to in Stockholm said to me: "What good is a Saudi Arabian Imam to me? I am a Swedish Muslim."
SPIEGEL: Some countries, like Germany, are already taking steps to foster the growth of a so-called "Euro-Islam" and you mention in the conclusion to the book that you believe this European Islam is emerging. How would you characterize it?
Klausen: The revolutionary new Islam is what is called Islam of the Book, and it is based very much on an individual's own readings of the Koran, on each person sitting down as part of a prayer group and figuring out what Islam means to them. Usually there is no imam, and everybody has the same relationship to Islam because they can all read the text. That is already the Islam of Europe, the Islam of the next generation, the inter-ethnic Islam. It is all about a textual reading of the Koran, in local languages, and there are broad variations of interpretation, everything from neo-orthodox understandings where people say: "I must wear the hijab, because that's what the book tells me." Other groups say: "There is nothing in the Koran which tells women they must wear a hijab, only that both men and women should be dressed modestly." I think what is important is that when European governments step in and try and resolve issues around Islam, that they are attuned to this diversity, that they do not just work with traditionalists, because if they do, then we are going to short-change that new thinking which is going on and which should be stimulated and encouraged.
The recent riots across France have raised new questions about the integration of immigrants into European society. Muslims have faced particular scrutiny following terrorist attacks in Spain and Britain. SPIEGEL ONLINE interviewed Jytte Klausen, the author of a new book looking at the challenges from the perspective of European Muslim leaders.
AP
A British Muslim boy listens as his father reads from the Koran in London.
Danish-American academic Jytte Klausen has spent the past two years exploring the issues surrounding the integration of Muslims in Europe. In the course of her research, she has spoken to more than 300 of Europe's leading Muslims -- members of parliament, community activists, religious leaders, as well doctors and lawyers. Her new book, The Islamic Challenge: Politics and Religion in Western Europe, offers their perspectives on the difficulties facing the Islamic communities and investigates what can be done to fix them.
SPIEGEL: You seemed quite surprised to discover that many of the members of this "Muslim elite" you questioned were not part of the second generation of immigrants, as you had expected, but were actually fairly recent first generation immigrants. What does this tell us about Muslims in European society?
NEWSLETTER
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Klausen: Many of the people I spoke to had come to Europe in their twenties, either as political refugees or as students. They were already educated, and that was critical for their self-esteem, that they already had that faith in themselves. There was a real difference between those Muslims who had moved to Europe and those who were born there. Those who had moved here would say to me: "Things are much worse where I came from. Here I can sit and talk to you without worrying about the police." By contrast, the people born in Europe did not take that view -- they were much more likely to say: "Europe has made all these promises to us and hasn't kept them." They were much angrier, and scored much higher in all the alienation tests I used.
SPIEGEL: And what does it mean for that second generation, whose parents came to Europe presumably for a better life, are they becoming a lost generation, an underclass? And if so, what can be done about it?
Klausen: In Europe, we have an education system which we have relied on in the past as a means of integration and a gateway to opportunity for all sorts of people. I myself am the first generation of my family to be university educated, and I only got a degree because it was free. My family did not have to pay for it. I think we have to think very carefully about why the education system is not working for the younger generation. Many of the leaders I talked to stressed there was a lack of early integration into politics, through youth groups and so on, saying it is not happening for young Muslims because the established political groups are skeptical, mistrustful of Muslims, they are aware of the political consequences of having Muslims elected to political offices and promoting them to leadership positions, even in youth groups. One exception to that rule was in Sweden, where the trade unions and other political groups have really encouraged young Muslims to get involved, but I didn't see that anywhere else, and I think it is very important that parties and groups start promoting Muslims to political positions.
SPIEGEL: Obviously if those groups start doing that now, it will be good news for youngsters who are in their early teens, but what about those who have gotten lost in between? Is there a serious threat, of further home-grown terror attacks like in London and Amsterdam and of the emergence of what some are calling a "Generation Jihad"?
Klausen: Yes. Two years ago when I started on the work for this book, I realized that there are many large cities in Europe that have a quarter to three-quarters of the population living without civil rights. They are living in highly socially and economically segregated areas with no mobility at all. I thought then that in many ways, Europe was like America prior to the civil rights movement. This was prior to the riots, but there was a real sense that this is a ticking time bomb and nobody is paying attention and it will lead to violence. There is a stark difference between the rioters and the terrorists, though. The only thing they have in common at all is that they are predominantly Muslim. The terrorists are better educated, many of them actually have jobs, they have all traveled internationally -- to Pakistan for example -- they are very international. By contrast the rioters are terribly domestic, very isolated.
SPIEGEL: One of the big problems you focus on is the lack of proper religious leadership in the form of properly trained imams in Europe who speak the language of the country they are working and preaching in.
DDP
A mosque in Essen.
Klausen: There is a real fear of radical imams. I spoke to a lot of people who were worried their children would fall into the hands of the radical imams because they are already alienated -- one woman told me her son had come home and said to her, "They all think I am a Muslim, they all expect the worst from me, that I am a radical, so I might as well do it." People think they can't take their children to the mosque and give them a version of Islam that is compatible with having proper aspirations for themselves in terms of education and integration. And then there is the language issue -- another man I spoke to in Stockholm said to me: "What good is a Saudi Arabian Imam to me? I am a Swedish Muslim."
SPIEGEL: Some countries, like Germany, are already taking steps to foster the growth of a so-called "Euro-Islam" and you mention in the conclusion to the book that you believe this European Islam is emerging. How would you characterize it?
Klausen: The revolutionary new Islam is what is called Islam of the Book, and it is based very much on an individual's own readings of the Koran, on each person sitting down as part of a prayer group and figuring out what Islam means to them. Usually there is no imam, and everybody has the same relationship to Islam because they can all read the text. That is already the Islam of Europe, the Islam of the next generation, the inter-ethnic Islam. It is all about a textual reading of the Koran, in local languages, and there are broad variations of interpretation, everything from neo-orthodox understandings where people say: "I must wear the hijab, because that's what the book tells me." Other groups say: "There is nothing in the Koran which tells women they must wear a hijab, only that both men and women should be dressed modestly." I think what is important is that when European governments step in and try and resolve issues around Islam, that they are attuned to this diversity, that they do not just work with traditionalists, because if they do, then we are going to short-change that new thinking which is going on and which should be stimulated and encouraged.
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