Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

EU, Turkey Clinch Deal to Launch Entry Talks

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • EU, Turkey Clinch Deal to Launch Entry Talks

    LUXEMBOURG (Reuters)--Turkey and the European Union (EU) clinched a historic deal to launch membership talks on Monday, despite deep public skepticism over whether the wealthy Western bloc will ever be able to absorb the Muslim nation.

    The opening ceremony was delayed until close to midnight by nearly two days of fierce wrangling over Austrian and Turkish objections to the EU's proposed negotiating mandate, reflecting profound distrust on both sides.

    "We reached agreement, I am going to Luxembourg," Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul told reporters as he left the headquarters of his ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) in Ankara to fly to meet the 25 EU foreign ministers.

    Austria eventually accepted that the shared goal of the negotiations would be accession, not the lesser "privileged partnership" which many conservatives and Christian Democrats across Western Europe had sought.

    In return, the EU made clear that its capacity to embrace the vast, poor NATO ally strategically located on the borders of Europe and the Middle East would be a key factor in the pace of Turkey's integration, as well as Ankara's progress in meeting strict criteria.

    Negotiations are expected to last at least a decade and at least two EU members, France and Austria, have promised their voters a final say on Turkish accession in referendums.

    Turkey now faces a marathon effort to transform its political, economic and social system and implement 80,000 pages of EU law.

    Turkey had held up a deal for hours in a final wrangle over Cyprus after British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw had overcome Austrian demands to offer Ankara a status short of membership.
    Gul's plane waited on the tarmac at Ankara airport and frustrated EU foreign ministers cooled their heels, most of them in the dark on the details of Straw's negotiations.

    The United States lent a hand to try to rescue the stalled talks after Turkey objected to a clause which hardliners in Ankara said could affect its ability to keep Cyprus out of NATO.

    US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telephoned Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan to assure him that the proposed EU negotiating framework would not impinge on NATO.

    "We are basically saying: cut whatever deal you can get at the EU and don't worry that somehow it ties your hands at NATO--because we don't think it does," a State Department official said.

    Failure to start the talks would have dealt a blow to political reform and foreign investment in Turkey and would also have deepened a sense of crisis in Europe, after defeats for the draft EU constitution in France and the Netherlands, and the failure in June to agree on a long-term budget for the bloc.

    But the tortuous nature of the final deal could leave a bitter taste on both sides, foreshadowing years of touch negotiations to come in an atmosphere of mutual disenchantment.


    © 2005 ASBAREZ ONLINE
    "All truth passes through three stages:
    First, it is ridiculed;
    Second, it is violently opposed; and
    Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

    Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

  • #2
    Deputy NA Speaker Hovhannisian Says Europe Must be Tough with Turkey

    YEREVAN (Armenpress)--The deputy speaker of Armenia's parliament Vahan Hovhannissian told a press conference on Monday that if Europe seeks stability and peace in the South Caucasus, it must be tough with Turkey, and request implementation of certain criteria before granting it full membership to the European Union (EU). These would include a resolution of the Cyprus and Kurdish issues, as well as recognition of the Armenian genocide, he stressed.

    What is most incredulous, Hovhannisian said, is Turkey's occupation of an EU member country, which it refuses to recognize.

    Hovhannisian pointed to Turkey's non-compliance on a myriad of issues and its tough stance with Europe, saying that this sets a "dangerous example for Azerbaijan," which is also showing signs of refusing to cooperate, this time with the OSCE and Armenia.

    He said that though European political forces understand Turkey's refusal to recognize the Armenian genocide is dangerous, he explained that Armenia must nevertheless aggressively advance the issue. "We must share our position with the Europeans; we cannot rely on Euro officials."
    "All truth passes through three stages:
    First, it is ridiculed;
    Second, it is violently opposed; and
    Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

    Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

    Comment


    • #3
      EU, Turkey start membership talks

      By Nicholas Kralev
      THE WASHINGTON TIMES
      October 4, 2005


      The European Union and Turkey began talks early today that could give the EU its first Muslim member after last-minute lobbying from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Austria's dropping of its previous objections.
      Although full membership is not expected for more than a decade, partly because of the skepticism among European voters, it would extend the union's borders to Syria, Iraq and Iran.
      "We have reached a historic point," Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul said in Ankara.
      But European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso was more cautious, saying that the road "will be long and difficult" and that "accession, as for every country, is neither guaranteed nor automatic."
      Mr. Gul commented shortly after Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's government accepted a framework document agreed to by the 25 EU members earlier in the day.
      Before flying to Luxembourg to join the EU foreign ministers for the formal start of the accession talks early this morning, Mr. Gul spoke about the "intense diplomacy" that Miss Rice, as well as United Nations and Arab officials, had waged.
      Miss Rice called Mr. Erdogan yesterday morning and urged him to accept the EU document, said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack.
      "This is something that she thought was important to do at this time -- to reach out to Turkish officials, to reiterate U.S. support," Mr. McCormack said.
      Miss Rice initiated the call in part at the request of British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, whose country holds the rotating EU presidency, after an issue with Cyprus threatened to derail the agreement, some diplomats said.
      The EU treaty requires that countries support fellow members in their bids to join other international organizations. This means that, once an EU member, Turkey would have to support Cyprus if it decides to seek NATO membership.
      Turkey refuses to recognize Cyprus, which joined the EU last year, and is the only country that supports a renegade Turkish Cypriot state on the divided island.
      Ankara initially refused to give the required EU promise, but Miss Rice assured Mr. Erdogan that he should not worry about Cyprus, U.S. officials said. Foreign diplomats even suggested that the secretary hinted that Washington would not allow Cyprus into NATO.
      Miss Rice also called Cypriot President Tassos Papadopoulos and asked him not to bring up the issue.
      "There was a brief discussion about our point of view that EU processes should not be brought into NATO decision-making processes," Mr. McCormack said.
      Another serious hurdle that was cleared yesterday was Austria's long-time objection to giving Turkey full EU membership, mainly because of the fear that it would mean too much Muslim influence in Europe.
      Diplomats were quoted by wire reports as saying that Austrian Foreign Minister Ursula Plassnik had relented, accepting language in the negotiating rules that states unambiguously that "the shared objective of the negotiations is [Turkey's] accession."
      Turkey has been an associate EU member since 1963. Enthusiasm about the union's expansion has waned lately, capped by the rejection of the proposed EU constitution by French and Dutch voters earlier this year.
      But the United States has been a strong advocate of Turkey's membership.
      "We have been quite open and transparent in our diplomatic, as well as rhetorical support, for Turkey beginning this process," Mr. McCormack said.
      "This goes back several years," he said. "At the same time that we have done that, we have also made it very clear that this is an EU process and a decision for Turkey and the European Union member states to make."
      • This article is based in part on wire service reports.
      "All truth passes through three stages:
      First, it is ridiculed;
      Second, it is violently opposed; and
      Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

      Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

      Comment


      • #4
        Turkey Agreed To Eu Conditions On Membership Talks

        Austria Gave In to European Neighbors, Whereas the Latter Yielded to Erdogan's Government

        On 2 October, foreign minister of the EU member states who gathered in Luxemburg failed to come to a unanimous decision over the final negotiation document with Turkey; the special meeting carried on the next day. On 2 October, the International Monetary Fund spoke out in favor of negotiations with Turkey and Javier Solana, EU High Representative for Common Foreign and Security Policy, expressed hope that the foreign minister's meeting will have a positive outcome reminding that "previous decisions concerning Turkey also were taken at the last moment".

        That very day when EU foreign ministers were discussing the start of EU-Turkey talks, Turks were marching in Istanbul and Ankara with banners reading "No to EU". The protest rally of Istanbul gathered 1.000 participants whereas the one in Ankara, organized by "grey wolves" political organization and National Movement Party recruited 100.000. Holding forth before its party members, president of the party, Devlet Bahcel, called October the 3d "not a beginning of negotiations with the EU but an end of capitulation". He posed a question in his speech: "Is it possible that Turkey joins Europe at the cost of denying the Cypriot Turks and giving in to Armenian lies?" and appealed to Prime Minister Erdogan: "Dear Prime Minister, our country has sunk into darkness because of your petitions. Do not give cause for putting new demands before you and demand new compromises from you. Accept that our country pays great price for your love for the EU based on capitulation. Do not commit new sins, turn down the negotiations".

        Turkey has not rejected negotiations. Meanwhile EU foreign ministers yesterday reached a deal clearing the way for accession talks with Turkey to begin.

        By Hakob Chakrian
        "All truth passes through three stages:
        First, it is ridiculed;
        Second, it is violently opposed; and
        Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

        Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

        Comment


        • #5
          Turkey Starts Decade-Plus EU Journey, With No Entry Guarantee

          Oct. 4 (Bloomberg) -- Turkey, clutching an 11th-hour European Union accord to start entry talks, faces growing opposition as it embarks on a journey to membership that could last 15 years and still end in failure.

          Last-minute objections by Austria and Cyprus almost derailed the start of the talks yesterday, highlighting deeper divisions over admitting a Muslim country of 72 million people with incomes that are a fourth of the EU average.

          ``There seems to be no obvious political will on the part of the EU to embrace Turkey at this stage,'' said Cem Duna, a former Turkish ambassador to the EU who helped negotiate a 1995 free- trade agreement with the bloc. ``The talks are going to be very tough and nations will have countless chances to veto.''

          Turkey is banking on the EU entry process to attract record foreign investment in the $300 billion economy. Optimism about membership has pushed stocks to a five-year high and brought the government's borrowing costs down to 15 percent from more than 70 percent four years ago.

          Getting the talks off the ground took a month of brinksmanship, with veto threats by Cyprus and Austria and counter-threats by Turkey, culminating in a 30-hour emergency negotiating session in Luxembourg.

          ``Turkey is determined to carry on with reforms,'' Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul told a Luxembourg news conference early today after the official start of the talks. ``Some of the concerns which exist in European public opinion will, I think, change in 10 years.''

          Enlargement Fatigue

          The EU is groping for answers on how, when and where to enlarge again after bringing in 10 mostly eastern European countries last year, expanding its population to 450 million. Dissatisfaction with enlargement, and with the prospect of Turkey joining, contributed to the rejection of the planned EU constitution in France and the Netherlands this year.

          ``At the rate Turkey is going it's going to take at least one generation for it to join the EU,'' said Jean-Dominique Butikofer, who manages the equivalent of $400 million of emerging market debt at Julius Baer Asset Management in Zurich.

          Opponents have pointed to polls showing only one-third of Europeans support Turkey's application. Unemployment in the EU is at 8.6 percent, increasing concerns that Turkish workers may head to the West and force more Europeans out of a job. Turkey's jobless rate is 9.1 percent.

          `I'm Hostile'

          ``I'm hostile to Turkey's membership,'' Marielle de Sarnez, a French member of the European Parliament, said in an interview yesterday. ``We must continue to build a political Europe,'' and letting Turkey in would lead to the ``dilution'' of the bloc.

          Loudspeakers across Turkey announce the call to prayer five times a day and the government supplies low-income families with free meals during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan. Istanbul's Grand Bazaar, a warren of covered, interlocking shopping alleys, has a Middle Eastern flair. The teeming city on the Bosporus, with about 9 million people, is larger than 12 EU countries.

          Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is urging Europe to prove it's not a ``Christian club'' by accepting Turkey.

          Turkey has made some of the changes demanded by the EU, including abolishing the death penalty and expanding rights for 12 million Turkish Kurds, the nation's largest ethnic minority originating from a region bordering Iraq.

          General Electric Co., BNP Paribas and Royal Dutch Shell Plc this year agreed to buy stakes in Turkish companies on expectation that the EU embrace will boost profits.

          European Values

          The European Commission, the EU's executive arm, says the government must now strengthen democracy, including religious freedoms for Greek Orthodox Christians in Istanbul, and meet the bloc's standards in 35 areas including competition, labor and the environment.

          ``The result of these negotiations is absolutely not guaranteed,'' French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy said yesterday. ``If it's not accession, it'll be another strong link.''

          Erdogan, who prays five times a day even during foreign trips, plans to cut the corporate tax rate from 30 percent to attract investment and reduce unemployment. Nineteen million people in Turkey live in poverty, according to government data.

          By 2025, Turkey would swallow up EU farm and regional subsidies equal to about 0.17 percent of annual European economic output, or about $20 billion in today's terms, the commission said last October.

          Armenian Massacre

          ``Countries like France and Germany just aren't ready for any further expansion of the EU from an economic point of view,'' said Daniel Gros, director of the Centre for European Policy Studies in Brussels. ``The negotiations with Turkey basically have to be forgotten about for the next five or six years.''

          Other demands include Turkey's recognition of the republic of Cyprus, the Mediterranean island nation that joined the EU last year. The European Parliament last week told Turkey to lift a ban on Cypriot planes and ships by next year or risk a halt to the EU process. Turkey should also acknowledge that Ottoman Turks carried out a massacre of Armenians in the last century before it becomes a member, the EU legislature said.
          "All truth passes through three stages:
          First, it is ridiculed;
          Second, it is violently opposed; and
          Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

          Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

          Comment


          • #6
            Dink: The Europe must pay the price.

            Hrant Dink has been invited to Strasbourg to join a assembly. The annoucement’s name is ‘’The future of the past: Armenians in Turkey.’’ that has been prepared by Allied Greens and Europe Freedom, in Europe Parliament.

            [I]I’m trying to translate the last half part of it.[I]

            Ayca Abakan: What is the aim of the assembly, why has you been invited to Strasbourg? And what are you going to say?

            Hrant Dink: I am going to grant a bulletin that about what is the role of Europe for the future of relationship between Turkish and Armenians. I will speak a litttle hard.

            In the past, 90 years ago, the trajedies, disasters that happened in those years and before, what was the role of Europe, did the Europians interrogate that frankly? No, they didn’t. Actually, they know all details. Their archives are full of that, but they didn’t reveal a sincere attitude about that.

            They were the protectors of Armenians in the past, English, Frenchs. Austria, Germany made
            recommendations to Ittihat and Terakki Party about that. In some ways, they were the theoricians, the idea advicers. They transfered the practical experiences to Ottomans that they had in the Balkans. But those things has been never interrogated in Europe.

            I’ll remind them they never interrogated and remind that due to never interrogated it, they are repeating the same mistakes again. Because they don’t have any excuse today as well.

            From now on, they must have realist and true politics. No one can slip away with throwing the responsibility and the price to the other who had the commitment- I’m especially using the word ‘price’-. Europians had a important responsibility in the issues.Yet they haven’t been aware of those responsibilities till today and never made an effort to compensate its price.

            Today there has come an opportunity to compensate the price. What is that? The relationship of two nations was consumed, that was in the past for 1000 years by means of them. Europe caused the consuming of the relationship in the past, today. It has a duty to recreate, rebirth it again. The price can be paid in that way only.

            Europe must use / do the every performances for this. With making the borders open, diplomatical relationship, shared domains of production, creating the shared domains of benefit between two countries, the Europe must rebuild the relationship that was killed by with putting the money and contributions forward.

            The relationship can’t be applied with two-sentence decision of parliament. It is clear. Their real responsibility is to turn to real politic. The politic which has the ability of producing the life. I’m going to suggest them those things.

            The Source:

            BBC Türkçe Servisi'nin konuğu olan AGOS gazetesi genel yayın yönetmeni Hrant Dink'le TBMM'de katıldığı ve Strazburg'da katılacağı iki toplantıyı ve Türk-Ermeni sorununu konuştuk.

            Comment


            • #7
              This is old news!
              09 April, 2005 -
              "All truth passes through three stages:
              First, it is ridiculed;
              Second, it is violently opposed; and
              Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

              Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

              Comment


              • #8
                Are you sure? If it is so, I'll delete it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Why Not Look at Europe From Turkey’s View?

                  Maureen Freely, The Independent

                  Is Turkey ready to join the EU? As the debate rages on, there is only one constant — the appalling pan-European ignorance about the country and its history. Begin with the constant references to Turkey as a moderate Muslim state. It has, in fact, been a secular state for more than 80 years.

                  Continue with the other favorite line — that Turkey has no place in a “Christian club.” Not only is this a slight to the 15 million European Muslims already living in the EU — it ignores Turkey’s long service in that other Christian club, NATO

                  In Germany, France, Austria, Belgium and the Netherlands, through which millions of Turkish guest workers have passed over the last 40 years, there is the specter of an immigrant flood. But the agreement Turkey reached with the EU last December stated immigration would be subject to severe limits only to be lifted when Turkey’s economy (which grew last year by 9 percent) was deemed sufficiently strong. Even in countries friendly to Turkey — and Britain is its staunchest supporter — there is a worrying fondness for the “two-Turkey” thesis. By this line of reasoning, half of the country is racing westward, while the other half — the part closest to Syria, Iraq, and Iran — is mired in its old, Eastern ways.

                  While it’s true that Turkey is a land of many contrasts, it is not and never will be a game of two halves. To give just one example, most of Turkey’s Kurds live in the east. If they look poor on television, it’s because the region is only just emerging from the Turkish Army’s long conflict with the PKK. If they support Turkey’s EU bid, it’s because they dream of a social democratic future in which all Turks, whatever their ethnic origins, can prosper. If modern Turkey has one great untold story, it is the growing grassroots movement to embrace its diverse ethnic roots, and to face — albeit haltingly — the less beautiful chapters in its history. Though the EU has played a central role in this process, it was born in Turkey: Where the EU has been effective, it has served as carrot, stick, and midwife.

                  But there is one highly sensitive matter it has handled very badly. A bit of history here: At the end of the Ottoman Empire, there were more Christians living in Anatolia than Muslims. But by the 1920s, when the Republic of Turkey was founded, they were pretty much all gone. Anatolia’s Greeks were exchanged for Greece’s ethnic Turks following an agreement overseen by the Allied powers. The Turkish state has never acknowledged what most of Europe holds to be true — that between one and two million were systematically killed or perished on forced marches; they say “only” a few hundred thousand died during the wartime chaos.

                  That the official line was underwritten by the penal code became world news last month, when a public prosecutor charged the novelist Orhan Pamuk with the “public denigration of Turkish identity” for asserting in a Swiss newspaper that “a million Armenians and 30,000 Kurds were killed and no one dares to talk about it except me.”

                  By and large, British politicians saw this for what it was: Another attempt by anti-EU nationalists in the judiciary to spoil Turkey’s chances.

                  The question was not whether Turkey the Islamic monolith was ready for EU entry but whether the government, constrained as it was by the army and other powerful state institutions, was strong enough to deliver its promises. But for vote-hunting conservatives in Germany, France, and Austria, this was yet another opportunity to hammer home the racist message that Turks (barring the occasional Lone Voice like Pamuk) were “not like us.”

                  Though voices in Britain are more moderate, there is still a mind-boggling lack of interest in what Turks themselves have to say. So — to give just one example — there was glancing interest last spring in the government-condoned closure of a conference organized in Istanbul by Turkish scholars to depoliticize the Armenian question and open it up to serious, non-partisan study. There were tiny mentions of the attempt to ban by court order their second attempt to hold the conference last weekend. But you will need a fine-toothed comb to find mention of the conference itself — which was a resounding success.

                  Only a hundred demonstrators turned up to throw a few eggs — in Turkey, this was viewed as a humiliation for the nationalists. The burning issue last Monday was not the Armenian question but whether or not Turks had the right to discuss it. The important news for Europe should have been that, whether or not their penal code gave Turks the right, there was more than one Turk daring to break a 90-year taboo.

                  There was, however, no mention of this watershed last Wednesday, when the European Parliament made a resolution pinning Turkish entry on an acknowledgement of the Armenian genocide. Once again, the Christians tell the heathens what to do.

                  Ask Turks what it’s like to be lectured to by sanctimonious Europeans who don’t do their homework, and they’ll tell you: It’s like the end of World War I, when the Allied occupiers were preparing to parcel out most of what is now modern Turkey to its neighbors. Or put it this way: For historical reasons, they don’t trust us. For obvious reasons, they don’t like being insulted.

                  If we fail to bring Turkey into the European fold, and if Turkey — angered, misunderstood, and disrespected — moves away from social democracy, we have only ourselves to blame.
                  "All truth passes through three stages:
                  First, it is ridiculed;
                  Second, it is violently opposed; and
                  Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

                  Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Turkey starts with an entry dance

                    Joined by some Europians Turkey turns EU talks in to a square dance.
                    Attached Files
                    "All truth passes through three stages:
                    First, it is ridiculed;
                    Second, it is violently opposed; and
                    Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

                    Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X