Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

International Genocide Recognition

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #51
    Barzani recognizes the Armenian Genocide

    AZG Armenian Daily #036, 27/02/2007

    Home | Print | Send | Rating

    Genocide
    OUTSANDING KURDISH POLITICIAN BEARING WITNESS OF THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE

    Head of the Kurish autonomy of Nosthern Iraq, leader of the "Democratic Party of Kurdistan" Masoud Barzani recently published a work dedicated to the life and activity of his father, Mustafa Barzani. Mustafa Barzani’s memoirs about the Armenian Genocide and mass deportation of Armenians are also included in the work. It is also noteworthy, that the author’s grand-grandfather, Sheikh Mohammad Barzani was the religious leader of the Barzani tribe. Sheikh Mohammad’s son Abdulsalam later obtained both the political and religious leadership of the tribe. In 1914 Sheikh Abdulsalam was executed by the Ottoman authorities. After those events his sons divided the political and religious authority of the tribe.

    At this very moment were started the mass repressions of Western Armenians. Abdulsalam’s son Sheikh Ahmad answered the summons of Armenian warlord Andranik, who was engaged in the organization of self-defense of Armenians. Molla Mustafa Barzani tells that he was among those 200 men sent by Sheikh Ahmad to aid Andranik’s forces. It should be noted that so as to avoid impact with governmental forces the brigade was to declare openly that their aim was to take part in the massacre of Armenians. Unfortunately, the Ottoman government had convinced the population of the empire that the 1915 events were a war of Muslims against the Christians, so that necessary lie was not hard to believe. "We aided the Armenians and accompanied the to the border of Syria", continues Molla Mustafa. "We were engaged by the Turkish forces and suffered casualties of 14 men".

    On our part we should add that Molla Mustafa Barzani lived a long life and passed away in 1979, in the Souleymanie town of Northern Iraq. He was succeeded by his son Masud Barzani, who after his father’s example became had got involved in the Kurd national movement at the early age of 16.

    All the information was taken from the Turkish www.kuvvaimilliye.net website.
    General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”

    Comment


    • #52
      This will no doubt ruffle some feathers.
      General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”

      Comment


      • #53
        Look who isn't neutral anymore... Go Suisse!

        In Lausanne Switzerland, the head of the Turkish party, Dogu Perincek was convicted for denying the Armenian Genocide. This is the first such conviction ever in the world! Le Temps, the biggest French paper in the French part of Switzerland has covered it here. There is also a reaction of the Armenian community of Switzerland below the main article.


        http://www.letemps.ch/template/regio...article=202243

        Dogu Perinçek condamné pour négationnisme


        VAUD. Le Tribunal de police a estimé que le génocide des Arméniens est un fait avéré en Suisse. Une première dans l'histoire judiciaire.



        Fati Mansour
        Samedi 10 mars 2007



        Devant la justiceLe génocide des Arméniens est un fait historiquement avéré pour l'opinion publique helvétique. En qualifiant celui-ci de «mensonge international», en invoquant théorie du complot et droit de la guerre pour justifier des abominations, l'homme politique turc Dogu Perinçek était mû par d'évidents mobiles racistes et nationalistes.

        Tels sont, en substance, les arguments qui ont amené le Tribunal de police de Lausanne à reconnaître l'accusé coupable de discrimination raciale et à le condamner à 90 jours-amende avec sursis ainsi qu'à 3000 francs d'amende à titre de sanction immédiate. Le président du Parti des travailleurs turcs devra aussi verser une indemnité symbolique de 1000 francs à l'Association Suisse- Arménie, prendre à sa charge les 10000 francs de dépens de la partie civile ainsi que les frais de la cause, fixés à 5873 francs.

        Intense émotion

        A l'issue de la lecture du dispositif et de la motivation résumée du jugement, la passion des premiers jours a laissé place à une intense émotion, tant du côté des représentants de la diaspora arménienne que des Turcs présents dans la salle. Pour la première fois dans l'histoire de la justice suisse - et peut-être même mondiale - la négation du génocide des Arménien se voyait sanctionnée.

        Pour arriver à ce résultat, le Tribunal a tout d'abord estimé qu'il n'y avait aucun problème factuel dans cette affaire. Les propos tenus publiquement à Lausanne et à Opfikon (ZH) en 2005, reconnus par l'accusé, visent clairement à nier la réalité du génocide.

        Dans la cible

        La négation de n'importe quel massacre ne tombe toutefois pas sous le coup de la loi, a ajouté le président Pierre-Henri Winzap. Il doit s'agir d'un génocide tel que le définissent la Convention internationale de 1948 et le statut de Rome.

        A partir de là, le Tribunal s'est demandé si seuls les génocides reconnus par des tribunaux internationaux entraient dans la cible de l'article 261 bis du Code pénal qui prohibe le négationnisme. Sa réponse est négative.

        Le texte de loi ne parle pas de la nécessité d'une telle reconnaissance et cela ne doit pas être compris comme une omission. Les débats du parlement lors de l'adoption de la norme antiraciste, qui citaient à titre d'exemple le massacre des Arméniens, ainsi que la doctrine -qui ne limite pas l'application de la norme à la Shoah mais l'étend aux «génocides avérés» - ont fini de convaincre les juges. «Un génocide n'a pas besoin d'être reconnu par une Cour internationale pour prendre valeur de génocide.» Il suffit qu'il soit connu et reconnu en Suisse.

        Connu et reconnu

        Et le Tribunal de citer les exemples de cette reconnaissance. Le postulat du Conseil national en 2003. Le message du Conseil fédéral mentionnant le génocide des Arméniens lors de l'élaboration de l'article de loi réprimant le génocide en tant que crime. Les manuels scolaires qui traitent des événements de 1915 en ces termes. Enfin, une déclaration solennelle du gouvernement genevois en 2001 qui, pour la petite histoire, était présidé à l'époque par Micheline Calmy-Rey.

        «Le génocide des Arméniens est donc ici un fait avéré. Et la récente position du Conseil fédéral n'y change rien», a relevé le président, en mettant cette dernière sur le compte de motivations politiques. Le juge a également rappelé qu'une vingtaine de parlements de par le monde ainsi que le Conseil de l'Europe avaient fait leur cette reconnaissance.

        Restait à déterminer si Dogu Perinçek avait agi intentionnellement et si son comportement était dicté par des mobiles méprisants. Là encore, le président a estimé que l'accusé avait tenu ses discours en sachant que le négationnisme était puni en Suisse. Il n'a fait preuve d'aucune inadvertance dans ses propos, allant jusqu'à évacuer tous les arguments des autres et dire qu'il ne changerait jamais de position. La nature de son mobile, un mélange de racisme et de nationalisme, a aussi paru évidente aux yeux des juges.

        Recours annoncé

        Dépeint comme intelligent, provocateur et arrogant, l'accusé n'a été mis au bénéfice d'aucune circonstance atténuante. Visiblement touché par cette décision, Dogu Perinçek a annoncé son intention de recourir. Celui qui affirme avoir agi dans un souci de vérité a dénoncé le caractère «partial, impérialiste et raciste» de ce jugement.








        «Il n'y a pas de place pour la joie»
        L'Association Suisse-Arménie se dit satisfaite d'un verdict qui fera jurisprudence.
        Philippe Miauton
        C'est «un grand soulagement», a déclaré Sarkis Shahinian, coprésident de l'Association Suisse-Arménie (ASA), lors de la conférence de presse qui a suivi le verdict. «Toutefois, il n'y a pas de place pour la joie, parce que personne ne peut se réjouir de ce qui s'est passé en 1915», a-t-il ajouté.

        L'ensemble des personnes présentes s'est dit satisfait par la décision prise, 92 ans après les faits. «Le verdict fera jurisprudence et donnera un signal fort à tous ceux qui voudraient continuer à nier la réalité historique», a insisté Sarkis Shahinian.

        Le coprésident de l'ASA espère que «cette sentence forcera la Turquie à modifier son discours pour être digne de rentrer dans l'Europe». Par ailleurs, il a appelé l'Etat turc «à cesser de dépenser des milliards pour soutenir la négation du génocide». Cette victoire, Sarkis Shahinian l'a dédiée notamment à l'ex-conseiller national genevois Jean-Claude Vaudroz, artisan de la reconnaissance par le parlement suisse du génocide des Arméniens, et qui décédé mercredi (lire ci-dessous).

        Ueli Leuenberger, vice-président des Verts suisses et coprésident du groupe parlementaire Arménie-Suisse, a demandé quant à lui que «le Conseil fédéral assume ses responsabilités et ne modifie pas la norme antiraciste». «Un carton rouge doit être donné au ministre de Justice et police, Christoph Blocher, pour ses propos tenus en Turquie et pour sa rencontre avec son homologue turc à quelques jours du procès», a-t-il ajouté.

        Dorénavant, l'ASA s'attend à plus de clarté sur le terrain juridique pour pouvoir «traduire en justice d'autres négationnistes», comme l'historien turc Yusuf Halaçoglu. «Il faut arrêter de souiller la mémoire des Arméniens, nous ne faisons que réagir aux provocations», ont-ils conclu.

        Comment


        • #54
          YAVUZ BAYDAR [email protected] Columnists
          Stop making sense

          Only when you see the perplexed eyes of the foreigners do you realize what a country Turkey is: It challenges, increasingly these days, all logic. It can easily defy common reason.
          It can also get really cranky as soon as the boundaries for it’s sense of humor are set to be enforced.
          I wonder sometimes. Should one be proud of living in such a surreal land?
          Or should one be seeking a dark corner to hide one’s shame?

          I suggest the former. I advise discussing even the most gloomy of the matters of politics to foreigners, who also wonder what a boring place this earth be if we did not hear absurdities stemming from this land.

          This entire business of YouTube does not seem to make sense, right? Yet, it has made most of us laugh. (Although I know it has frustrated many youngsters here, leading some of them to apply for lifting the block.)

          The logical question, as the court here banned the access to YouTube, that many here asked as well was: “For God’s sake, what is the purpose here? To protest an insult to the memory of Atatürk? By denying access to YouTube here, do the authorities think they can blindfold the rest of the world? While through the publication it has caused, even the people living in Greenland now are interested in what those visuals were, excited to see freely accessible site on their mark, while angry Turkish youngsters and others curse the air in the internet cafés in Anatolia because their toy is taken from them?”

          Maybe justified questions, but there is always a more legitimate one, that I strongly advise my foreigner friends:

          “Why bother with logic to find logic? Just laugh and enjoy.”

          Therefore I am happy that we produce so much laughing elements to the world, which, as you very well know, is not a great source of optimism these days. Do you hear anything funny from Belarus or Moldova? Heard anything humorous from Nigeria? Even Borat’s adopted homeland is gradually left to be forgotten forever these days.

          Turkey is such a stimulus for minds that the great Los Angeles Times devotes all too often fully serious editorials on developments that generously contain old and new absurdities. Take these deliberations from last Friday:

          “George Washington and Kemal Atatürk, the founder of modern Turkey, had much in common. Both men led successful wars of independence; both fought ferociously against the British; both became the first president and ‘father’ of their respective countries, and both proved to be uncommonly forward-looking statesmen who made sure their new republics were secular democracies.

          “And yet the national cultures that the two men helped to create are vastly different, which explains partly (if glibly) why the United States produced YouTube while Turkey is producing ridiculous justifications for banning it. Though Washington’s name graces the nation’s capital and currency, it is also used for such crass purposes as selling used cars and mattresses.

          “Ataturk, on the other hand, who died in 1938, remains the object of a cult of personality, one in which merely insulting his memory is grounds for imprisonment. That’s why the file-sharing company YouTube was banned from Turkey this week after it hosted a sophomoric video titled ‘Kemal Gay Turk.’ Playground stuff, to be sure --”

          Lovely thoughts, these,

          Yet, they do not help my broken joy in seeing the access to YouTube restored again in Turkey. Part of wanted it to continue.

          People know me for my fierce opposition to Article 301 (you know “insulting Turkishness” thing) but nowadays, after all, well, I am not so sure anymore.

          What tempts me is the unfolding parts of the YouTube story: Now, YouTube restored but hearts still broken, I learned that a prosecutor’s office in Istanbul decided to launch an inquiry, aimed at finding that “Stavreatos” guy, who dared to put that dreadful video on Atatürk on the web. Prosecutor will ask the US attorneys to find the perpetrator and deliver him (her?) the indictment that he (she?) be charged on Article 301.

          What? Why are you angry, all of a sudden? Have you lost your sense of humor? Is it not wonderful that 301 lightens up the existence of humankind on this dull planet? What would you people do, if Turkey’s “official face” did not defend its right to remain serious, and nothing but serious?

          I somehow do not want to be deprived of my right to smile.

          I’ll stop making sense. Long live 301!

          The LA Times concludes: “But the underlying issue is dead serious: Turkey can, and needs to, fulfill Ataturk’s goal of modernization by allowing him to be mocked.”It must be joking.


          11.03.2007
          General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”

          Comment


          • #55
            Originally posted by Joseph View Post
            “George Washington and Kemal Atatürk, the founder of modern Turkey, had much in common. Both men led successful wars of independence; both fought ferociously against the British; both became the first president and ‘father’ of their respective countries, and both proved to be uncommonly forward-looking statesmen who made sure their new republics were secular democracies.
            One difference - when was the last time you heard of american teenage boys ready to kill those who insult George Washington? How about american prosecutors hunting down citizens and foreigners who dare to insult George Washington here and abroad? The borderline idol worship that takes place in Turkey over Ataturk, the cult-like following discussed, this is the difference and a big difference it is...
            [url]http://www.ArmenianAncestry.com[/url] - [COLOR="Red"]Armenian[/COLOR] [COLOR="Blue"]Genealogy[/COLOR] [COLOR="Orange"]Forum[/COLOR]

            Comment


            • #56
              Originally posted by Hovik View Post
              One difference - when was the last time you heard of american teenage boys ready to kill those who insult George Washington? How about american prosecutors hunting down citizens and foreigners who dare to insult George Washington here and abroad? The borderline idol worship that takes place in Turkey over Ataturk, the cult-like following discussed, this is the difference and a big difference it is...
              I agree. I've been to Turkey several times and his image is everywhere; sort of like China with Mao Tze Tung or Fidel Castro in Cuba. It's a cult of personality.

              I found the article intriguing because although Baydar seemed insulted by what was posted in YouTube and even though he seems apprehensive to admit it, it appears he was embarrased by the reaction of the Turkish courts and also see's the futulity in such a reaction. It also seems he is coming to the realization that the EU, US, the west in general see hypernationalism as displayed in Turkey, as utterly ridiculous as counterproductive. The more that westerners are waking up to this realization, the more Turkey pushed back like a stubborn child. All the money they have spent on PR can do nothing for them.
              General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”

              Comment


              • #57
                Joseph, I think spoilt child rather than stubborn.
                Unfortunately, the child was indulged during the infancy stage and now, as an adolescent, really should be in therapy otherwise I can see a lifetime in institutions ahead.

                Comment


                • #58
                  Originally posted by steph View Post
                  Joseph, I think spoilt child rather than stubborn.
                  Unfortunately, the child was indulged during the infancy stage and now, as an adolescent, really should be in therapy otherwise I can see a lifetime in institutions ahead.
                  I'm afraid that the psychosis is much deeper then even this....at least however a few (lets think of them as antibodies) seem to have recognized this and are speaking up...let's hope that they, unlike Hrant Dink, can avoid being gunned down or otherwise silenced by agents of the dominant wolf mind....
                  Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?
                  Adolf Hitler (22 August 1939)

                  Comment


                  • #59
                    Israeli Knesset to discuss Genocide recognition

                    Most likely Israeli Knesset to discuss Genocide recognition issue Wednesday

                    /PanARMENIAN.Net/ On Wednesday “Meres” Israeli party is going to raise the issue to recognize the Armenian Genocide in the Knesset, “Hay Dat” Israeli office co-chairman Georgette Avagian stated to RFE RL. “Hopefully, if this time the resolution fails, next time the Knesset will certainly approve it,” she stated. The Israeli Media has not reacted to it, since 6 members of “Meres” party are having tete-a-tete meetings with MPs and do not appear with public statements. Arab party deputies of Knesset refused to participate in voting of recognizing the Armenian Genocide, stating, “We understand you, but Turkey is a Muslim country.” Israel-Turkey and Israel-Azerbaijan inter-parliamentarian groups of Knesset most likely will hamper the voting or will vote against the resolution. Also several Russian speaking parliamentarians have arrived in Israel from Baku, who often appear with anti-Armenian statements in Israeli Media. Last time attempts to put under vote the Armenian Genocide recognition issue in Knesset was made 5 years ago.
                    [url]http://www.ArmenianAncestry.com[/url] - [COLOR="Red"]Armenian[/COLOR] [COLOR="Blue"]Genealogy[/COLOR] [COLOR="Orange"]Forum[/COLOR]

                    Comment


                    • #60
                      I hope Israel will be the last country (infact I'm sure of it!) that recognises our holocoust.
                      "All truth passes through three stages:
                      First, it is ridiculed;
                      Second, it is violently opposed; and
                      Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

                      Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X