Kurdish Terrorists Of Turkey!

[elendil]

No I didnt never been!
just a thought
bt you do realize because o the pressur to be a Turk lots of minoritys denie their own race when asked

Well, naturally to a point what you say is correct. But the assumption of Kurdish is done by taking entire south-east and eastern Turkey as Kurdish and which is 10 million and half of this number living in western side of Turkey which makes 5 million. The estimates of population in different sources generally meet between the number 12 and 20 million. Therefore 15 million is a good estimate which is consists 1/5-1/4 of Turkey's population. Kurds in southeastern produce very fast since they live in uneducated and undeveloped part of country but it is slowly falling down as education gets stronger and influence of PKK gets lower. Even if Kurds produce at this rate, Turks=Kurds in Turkey is calculated to be in 2050.
I hope I could explain

[Gavur]

Polygamy Fosters Culture Clashes (and Regrets) in Turkey

Isiklar Journal
Ali Kaska for The New York Times


Aga Mehmet Arslan, a Kurdish village chieftain in Turkey, in front of one of his five houses in Isiklar, Turkey, one house for each of his five wives. If he had to do it over, he said, he would marry only one woman.








By DAN BILEFSKY
Published: July 10, 2006
ISIKLAR, Turkey, July 6 — With his 5 wives, 55 children and 80 grandchildren, 400 sheep, 1,200 acres of land and a small army of servants, Aga Mehmet Arslan would seem an unlikely defender of monogamy.






Photographs by Ali Kaska for The New York Times




The New York Times
Though banned, polygamy is widespread in the Isiklar region.





Yet if he were young again, said Mr. Arslan, a sprightly, potbellied, 64-year-old Kurdish village chieftain, he would happily trade in his five wives for one.

"Marrying five wives is not sinful, and I did so because to have many wives is a sign of power," he said, perched on a divan in a large cushion-filled room at his house, where a portrait of Turkey's first president, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, who outlawed polygamy in 1926, is prominently displayed.

"But I wouldn't do it again," he added, listing the challenges of having so many kin — like the need to build each wife a house away from the others to prevent friction and his struggle to remember all of his children's names. "I was uneducated back then, and God commands us to be fruitful and multiply."

Though banned by Ataturk as part of an effort to modernize the Turkish republic and empower women, polygamy remains widespread in this deeply religious and rural Kurdish region of southeastern Anatolia, home to one-third of Turkey's 71 million people. The practice is generally accepted under the Koran.

Polygamy is creating cultural clashes in a country struggling to reconcile the secularism of the republic with its Muslim traditions. It also risks undermining Turkey's drive to gain entry into the European Union.

"The E.U. is looking for any excuse not to let Turkey in, and polygamy reinforces the stereotype of Turkey as a backward country," said Handan Coskun, director of a women's center.

Because polygamous marriages are not recognized by the state — imams who conduct them are subject to punishment — the wives have no legal status, making them vulnerable when marriages turn violent. Yet the local authorities here typically turn a blind eye because the practice is viewed as a tradition.

Two years ago, Prime Minister Tayyip Recep Erdogan tried to attack polygamy by criminalizing adultery, after prominent members of his Justice and Development Party were rumored to have taken second wives. The European Union, even though it condemns polygamy, criticized him for intervening in the nation's bedrooms, leading him to back down.

In Turkey, polygamy experts explain the practice as a hangover from the Ottoman period, when harem culture abounded and having several wives was viewed as a symbol of influence, sexual prowess and wealth.

Remzi Otto, a sociology professor at Dicle University in Diyarbakir, who conducted a survey of 50 polygamous families, said some men took second wives if their first wives could not conceive sons. Some also take widowed women and orphan girls as second wives to give them a social safety net. Love, he added, can also play a role.

"Many men in this region are forced into marriages when they are as young as 13, so finding their own wife is a way to rebel and express their independence," he said.

Isiklar, the remote village where Mr. Arslan is the aga, or chief, can be found at the end of a long dirt road, surrounded by sweeping verdant fields. Most of the local residents share the surname Arslan, which means lion in Turkish and connotes virility.

Mr. Arslan said he regretted his multiple marriages and had forbidden his sons to take more than one wife. He is also educating his daughters.

"I have done nothing shameful," he said. "I don't drink. I treat everyone with respect. But having so many wives can create problems."

His biggest headache, he said, stems from jealousy among the wives, the first of whom he married out of love. "My rule is to behave equally toward all of my wives," he said. "But the first wife was very, very jealous when the second wife came. When the third arrived, the first two created an alliance against her. So I have to be a good diplomat."

Mr. Arslan, who owns land, real estate and shops throughout the region, said the financial burden of so many offspring could be overwhelming. "When I go to the shoe shop, I buy 100 pairs of shoes at a time," he said. "The clerk at the store thinks I'm a shoe salesman and tells me to go visit a wholesaler."

He also has trouble keeping track of his children. He recently saw two boys fighting in the street and told them they would bring shame on their families. "Do you not recognize me?" one replied. "I am your son."

Religious leaders in the region are beginning to question polygamy. On a recent day at the Ulu Mosque in Diyarbakir, a group of Islamic scholars washed their feet as they debated the merits of a second marriage.

Imam Camisab Ozbek said Islam permitted a man to take up to four wives, but only on the condition that each wife had her own property, assets and dowry. He said some local polygamous men were distorting the Koran's teachings.

"If a husband takes a second wife and doesn't behave equally toward her, when he dies he will be handicapped in the hereafter and go to hell," he said.

Women's groups say polygamy is putting women at risk. "These women can be abused, raped, mistreated, and because their marriages are not legal, they have nowhere to turn," said Ms. Coskun, the director of the women's center, which has opened bread-making factories in poor rural areas where women can work and take classes on women's rights.

Blind and handicapped at birth, Songul Fiktan, 31, said she was forced by her family to marry her cousin's husband because her cousin could not conceive. On the wedding night, she learned her husband was 65 years old. "I didn't know if my husband was young or old, handsome or ugly," she said, shaking and wiping her eyes with her veil.

After she produced seven children, now ages 6 months to 15 years, her husband told her he could not afford to support the family and fled, so she and her children went to Diyarbakir and became beggars. A local professor found her on the street and took her to a shelter.

Back in Isiklar, Mr. Arslan acknowledged that polygamy was an outmoded practice. "God has been giving to me because I am giving to my family," he said. "But if you want to be happy, marry one wife."

[Joseph]

Isiklar Journal
Ali Kaska for The New York Times


Aga Mehmet Arslan, a Kurdish village chieftain in Turkey, in front of one of his five houses in Isiklar, Turkey, one house for each of his five wives. If he had to do it over, he said, he would marry only one woman.








By DAN BILEFSKY
Published: July 10, 2006
ISIKLAR, Turkey, July 6 — With his 5 wives, 55 children and 80 grandchildren, 400 sheep, 1,200 acres of land and a small army of servants, Aga Mehmet Arslan would seem an unlikely defender of monogamy.






Photographs by Ali Kaska for The New York Times




The New York Times
Though banned, polygamy is widespread in the Isiklar region.





Yet if he were young again, said Mr. Arslan, a sprightly, potbellied, 64-year-old Kurdish village chieftain, he would happily trade in his five wives for one.

"Marrying five wives is not sinful, and I did so because to have many wives is a sign of power," he said, perched on a divan in a large cushion-filled room at his house, where a portrait of Turkey's first president, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, who outlawed polygamy in 1926, is prominently displayed.

"But I wouldn't do it again," he added, listing the challenges of having so many kin — like the need to build each wife a house away from the others to prevent friction and his struggle to remember all of his children's names. "I was uneducated back then, and God commands us to be fruitful and multiply."

Though banned by Ataturk as part of an effort to modernize the Turkish republic and empower women, polygamy remains widespread in this deeply religious and rural Kurdish region of southeastern Anatolia, home to one-third of Turkey's 71 million people. The practice is generally accepted under the Koran.

Polygamy is creating cultural clashes in a country struggling to reconcile the secularism of the republic with its Muslim traditions. It also risks undermining Turkey's drive to gain entry into the European Union.

"The E.U. is looking for any excuse not to let Turkey in, and polygamy reinforces the stereotype of Turkey as a backward country," said Handan Coskun, director of a women's center.

Because polygamous marriages are not recognized by the state — imams who conduct them are subject to punishment — the wives have no legal status, making them vulnerable when marriages turn violent. Yet the local authorities here typically turn a blind eye because the practice is viewed as a tradition.

Two years ago, Prime Minister Tayyip Recep Erdogan tried to attack polygamy by criminalizing adultery, after prominent members of his Justice and Development Party were rumored to have taken second wives. The European Union, even though it condemns polygamy, criticized him for intervening in the nation's bedrooms, leading him to back down.

In Turkey, polygamy experts explain the practice as a hangover from the Ottoman period, when harem culture abounded and having several wives was viewed as a symbol of influence, sexual prowess and wealth.

Remzi Otto, a sociology professor at Dicle University in Diyarbakir, who conducted a survey of 50 polygamous families, said some men took second wives if their first wives could not conceive sons. Some also take widowed women and orphan girls as second wives to give them a social safety net. Love, he added, can also play a role.

"Many men in this region are forced into marriages when they are as young as 13, so finding their own wife is a way to rebel and express their independence," he said.

Isiklar, the remote village where Mr. Arslan is the aga, or chief, can be found at the end of a long dirt road, surrounded by sweeping verdant fields. Most of the local residents share the surname Arslan, which means lion in Turkish and connotes virility.

Mr. Arslan said he regretted his multiple marriages and had forbidden his sons to take more than one wife. He is also educating his daughters.

"I have done nothing shameful," he said. "I don't drink. I treat everyone with respect. But having so many wives can create problems."

His biggest headache, he said, stems from jealousy among the wives, the first of whom he married out of love. "My rule is to behave equally toward all of my wives," he said. "But the first wife was very, very jealous when the second wife came. When the third arrived, the first two created an alliance against her. So I have to be a good diplomat."

Mr. Arslan, who owns land, real estate and shops throughout the region, said the financial burden of so many offspring could be overwhelming. "When I go to the shoe shop, I buy 100 pairs of shoes at a time," he said. "The clerk at the store thinks I'm a shoe salesman and tells me to go visit a wholesaler."

He also has trouble keeping track of his children. He recently saw two boys fighting in the street and told them they would bring shame on their families. "Do you not recognize me?" one replied. "I am your son."

Religious leaders in the region are beginning to question polygamy. On a recent day at the Ulu Mosque in Diyarbakir, a group of Islamic scholars washed their feet as they debated the merits of a second marriage.

Imam Camisab Ozbek said Islam permitted a man to take up to four wives, but only on the condition that each wife had her own property, assets and dowry. He said some local polygamous men were distorting the Koran's teachings.

"If a husband takes a second wife and doesn't behave equally toward her, when he dies he will be handicapped in the hereafter and go to hell," he said.

Women's groups say polygamy is putting women at risk. "These women can be abused, raped, mistreated, and because their marriages are not legal, they have nowhere to turn," said Ms. Coskun, the director of the women's center, which has opened bread-making factories in poor rural areas where women can work and take classes on women's rights.

Blind and handicapped at birth, Songul Fiktan, 31, said she was forced by her family to marry her cousin's husband because her cousin could not conceive. On the wedding night, she learned her husband was 65 years old. "I didn't know if my husband was young or old, handsome or ugly," she said, shaking and wiping her eyes with her veil.

After she produced seven children, now ages 6 months to 15 years, her husband told her he could not afford to support the family and fled, so she and her children went to Diyarbakir and became beggars. A local professor found her on the street and took her to a shelter.

Back in Isiklar, Mr. Arslan acknowledged that polygamy was an outmoded practice. "God has been giving to me because I am giving to my family," he said. "But if you want to be happy, marry one wife."

Seriously, one woman is enough. A lot of guys probably fantasize about having several wives but can you imagine when they're all pissed at you and gang-up?

[Gavur]

Youcan see why Turks are worried
who can compete with the Kurds?

[Joseph]

Youcan see why Turks are worried
who can compete with the Kurds?

Yeah man. I wonder how large the average Kurdish family is out east.

[elendil]

Yeah man. I wonder how large the average Kurdish family is out east.

6 children per family is the mean as far as I know

[imported_Hayko]

SOUTHERN KURDISTAN EXISTS DE FACTO, AS AN INDEPENDANT STATE, FOR A DECADE.
THE QUESTION OF THE NORTH IS JAST A MATTER OF A COUPLE OF DECADES.
WHEN YOU HAVE A CIVIL AIRLINE, SPONSORED BY UNCLE SAM, LANDING IN BOLIS...

http://www.djavakhk.com/galerie/disp_img.php?id_img=1304

[Joseph]

SOUTHERN KURDISTAN EXISTS DE FACTO, AS AN INDEPENDANT STATE, FOR A DECADE.
THE QUESTION OF THE NORTH IS JAST A MATTER OF A COUPLE OF DECADES.
WHEN YOU HAVE A CIVIL AIRLINE, SPONSORED BY UNCLE SAM, LANDING IN BOLIS...

http://www.djavakhk.com/galerie/disp...hp?id_img=1304

Cool website. I was speaking to someone from the World Bank yesterday regarding development in Northern Iraq and for the most part the Kurds are considered de-facto independent and the US and other nations will eventually recognize a free, independent Kurdistan. Kurdistan is developing at a pretty rapid clip.

[bell-the-cat]

6 children per family is the mean as far as I know

Turkey should have given the PKK everything it wanted back in the early 1990s and got itself rid of the whole lot of them (And at 6 children per family there were a whole lot less of them 15 years ago!).
Turkey would be a far wealthier country now, and probably well on its way to EU membership. But common sense had no influence when pitted against virulent Turkish nationalism.

[AsilTürk]

I have a lot of Kurd friends..

If we look Kurds as a potantial terrorists, The USA and Europeans look our Muslims as a potential terrorists either