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  • #31
    yes you are right joseph .. if you search via google you will see too many "fine (!)" article regarding this genocide issue that mainly created by Armenian Community. And the parlament of certain countries prepare a plan to accept this genocide for the sake of the potential armenian vote(s). but really no country in the world recognised that. all you can find is just "fine article".

    I will ask you a frank question joseph. have you really been turkey before? I lived in the east part of turkey for 16 years where your ancestor lived before. I understand your feeling about us but from the beginning what I am trying to explain is "things were changed". I do not have hatred but you have. That is very obvious this is why you dont want to hear anything negative which might oppose the purpose of this forum.

    Yes russia supported Armenia but it was not for the sake of the "armenian love". it was about controlling azeri petrol and get a remarkable share from it. accept it or not you are living in a buffer zone as a russian game card. and there are many reason for russia to use armenian.. simply go to google and search it.

    if you dont forget what happened in the past and act as an enemy of turkey, trust me you will suffer more. and really we young turkish people are ready to welcome you at any time... you do not need a refresher course.. you need to be purified from your hatred joseph... then you will enjoy the life. I apologize if I go too forward but this is the truth dear joseph...

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    • #32
      Originally posted by achilles
      yes you are right joseph .. if you search via google you will see too many "fine (!)" article regarding this genocide issue that mainly created by Armenian Community. And the parlament of certain countries prepare a plan to accept this genocide for the sake of the potential armenian vote(s). but really no country in the world recognised that. all you can find is just "fine article".

      I will ask you a frank question joseph. have you really been turkey before? I lived in the east part of turkey for 16 years where your ancestor lived before. I understand your feeling about us but from the beginning what I am trying to explain is "things were changed". I do not have hatred but you have. That is very obvious this is why you dont want to hear anything negative which might oppose the purpose of this forum.

      Yes russia supported Armenia but it was not for the sake of the "armenian love". it was about controlling azeri petrol and get a remarkable share from it. accept it or not you are living in a buffer zone as a russian game card. and there are many reason for russia to use armenian.. simply go to google and search it.

      if you dont forget what happened in the past and act as an enemy of turkey, trust me you will suffer more. and really we young turkish people are ready to welcome you at any time... you do not need a refresher course.. you need to be purified from your hatred joseph... then you will enjoy the life. I apologize if I go too forward but this is the truth dear joseph...

      The Armenian Genocide issue is not created by the Armenian Community (if anything the Armenian Genocide is the result of what Turks have done) but it's recognition is certainly advocated by them, that in addition to Human Rights groups and the majority of academics. Most of the countries that have recognized the Armenian Genocide have insignificant amounts of Armenians (Sweden for example). Even in France, there are more Turks than Armenians. Armenian votes are a mere drop in the ocean, even in a state like California. It just so happens that most people who know anything about the history of the period or know anything about the Turks, Armenians, Ottoman Empire, etc. know what happened and it seems the more the offical denialist view of your government comes to light, the more supporters we gain without having to lift a finger.

      The best advocates of the Armenian Genocide have been the Turks themselves, by accident of course.

      I have been to Turkey several times. My wife grew up there. I do not have hatred against Turks as a whole, just against those who are anti-Armenian, anti-Christian, and anti-minority.

      As far as being a Russian buffer, so be it. It is called "real-politik" and it is the norm when it comes to political relations between nations. We get something from them and they get something from us. I'll turn that question around to you; does anybody really love Turkey?

      The alternative to Russia is something much worse, especially with neighbors such as Turkey, Iran and Azerbaijan. Even you'd have to admit, why would Armenians in their right mind trust you?

      The fact that we won't forget or history does not mean that Armenians are trying to be your enemy. Should African American forget the history of slavery (they don't btw), should Jews forget the Holocaust, should Tutsis forget what the Hutus did? Should Bosnians suddenly embrace the Serbs?Remembering what happened is common sense, it helps people remain vigilant. It is your government that has told you time and time again that genocide recognition will end in disaster for you; they have ingrained that in your minds.

      It's great that you don't hate us but it doesn't erase the past, especially when there has been no official apology and made even worse by the fact that there have been efforts on the part of your government and society as a whole to obscure history.

      As far as threatening (not a very enlightened outlook) those pesky Armenians with further suffering if they do no stop with genocide recognition, that will further alienate and anger us, don't you think?
      General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”

      Comment

      • #33
        Originally posted by achilles
        there is no "Western Armenia" in the world.. it could be in the mars or in the books of Tolkien... dont you have a map?

        Armenia Major, to be more exact.
        General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”

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        • #34
          yes you are right armenian population is limited. but you are getting cristian support from certain countries who really hates turkey and islam. the last sample was france. french goverment and armenian lobby prepared everything but somehow it denied. but still in this forum I could see that you presume france recognised this genocide. anyway this disscussion will continue foreever. maybe in the future some countries will recognise it. I dont care what will be recognised or denied. but you must accept that armenia must co-operate with turkey in order to develop. dont cheat yourself that the condition of armenia is good. you are just betraying your own people.

          you are acting with a nationalist mood. as a person provokes , rest of you also agitate the situation. although I am turkish I do not classify myself as a nationalist.

          regarding your question; off course too many foreign and christian people love turkey.

          you said "It's great that you don't hate us but it doesn't erase the past" it obviously shows your prejudice. how old are you joseph? the world is changing.. why dont you understand it? I dont hate neither you nor crusader warrior.. if my hatred constituted based on history, I would be pathetic and paranoid...

          doesnt it hurt you to accept "being a russian buffer" ? yes of course it is politic but whatever they say you just obey..

          Comment

          • #35
            Originally posted by achilles
            yes you are right armenian population is limited. but you are getting cristian support from certain countries who really hates turkey and islam. the last sample was france. french goverment and armenian lobby prepared everything but somehow it denied. but still in this forum I could see that you presume france recognised this genocide. anyway this disscussion will continue foreever. maybe in the future some countries will recognise it. I dont care what will be recognised or denied. but you must accept that armenia must co-operate with turkey in order to develop. dont cheat yourself that the condition of armenia is good. you are just betraying your own people.

            you are acting with a nationalist mood. as a person provokes , rest of you also agitate the situation. although I am turkish I do not classify myself as a nationalist.

            regarding your question; off course too many foreign and christian people love turkey.

            you said "It's great that you don't hate us but it doesn't erase the past" it obviously shows your prejudice. how old are you joseph? the world is changing.. why dont you understand it? I dont hate neither you nor crusader warrior.. if my hatred constituted based on history, I would be pathetic and paranoid...

            doesnt it hurt you to accept "being a russian buffer" ? yes of course it is politic but whatever they say you just obey..

            Not sure exactly what a country has to do beyond officially recognizing the Armenian Genocide that would satisfy you. For instance, France has officially; is this somehow made up? did France's recognition not occur?

            As far as your Christian solidarity regarding European views of Turkey/ Muslims, this is not our problem. Yet, at the same time you claim they love you. Confusing.

            Certainly it would be better if Armenia and Turkey had relations as equals but it's up to Turkey. They have set the preconditions (several of them), not Armenia. Remember, even India and Pakistan have diplomatic relations. I would hope that both sides could at least be magnanimous one day but at this point Turkey prefers to bully Armenia; not a good way to move forward and does not endear Turkey in the eyes of Armenians.

            The condition of Armenia is getting better, I've seen it with my own eyes and they will move forward regardless of whether the borders are open to trade or not. For the time being, Armenians are assuming the borders will remain closed and no one is holding their breath.

            I think the ulitmate prejudice would be to commit genocide, claim it never happened and then try to blame the victims for their own deaths or even have the gall to claim counter-genocide.
            Sure, the world is changing but the the Armenians Genocide is still an open wound and it will remain an issue until there is a vindication. Additionally, the Armenians were torn from their homeland of 3,000 years, largely decimated in the name of Pan-Turkism, it's not something we will ever forget.

            You see Armenia as a buffer to Russia and to some degree they are but there is also a measure of kinship with the Russians and we have no fear that they will attempt to destroy us (unlike some states). They assist in guarding the borders and if they did not there is no telling what would happen. We are not a nation of 70 million so our choices and power are of course limited. It comes down to this, Turkeys biggest problem seems to be with Russia.

            Lest we forget, the US has been subsidizing Turkey's military for decades. Sounds like the U.S has a definite degree of oversight.
            General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”

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