Shamil Basayev Annihilated in Special Operation in Ingushetia

[Alexandros]

And I'm sad he's dead.

Why?

[ardakilic]

Chechen resistence against Russian invasion lost one of his leaders. That's the reason.

I know, you can mention about his contributions on Azeris in Artsakh war, but that's not the key i think.

I also am ashamed for Turkish state's support to Russia about assasinations of Basayev and Dudaev.

[Alexandros]

Chechen resistence against Russian invasion lost one of his leaders. That's the reason.

I know, you can mention about his contributions on Azeris in Artsakh war, but that's not the key i think.

I also am ashamed for Turkish state's support to Russia about assasinations of Basayev and Dudaev.

But what do you have to say about this:

The attacks on the Dubrovka Theatre and the school in Beslan confirmed that Basayev now had no compunction about targeting civilians anywhere in Russia. The deaths of 330 people in Beslan, half of them children, marked the final nadir in the descent of a man who had once claimed to be a
democrat

Link

For me, Shamil Basayev is a guy who I hope is burning in hell.

[Joseph]

But what do you have to say about this:



For me, Shamil Basayev is a guy who I hope is burning in hell.

On the one hand, I could have respected him had he focused solely on the freedom of his people and would not have ill-will towards him but on the other hand, this is what Basayev did and why Chechens continued to suffer:

1. Destroyed the fragile peace created by Maskhadov and Lebedev {rip} and any chances for indepedence for Chenchyna. Chechyna was on its way to freedom {de jure freedom in the very least} but he ruined it by engaging, marauding, murdering and invading Daghestan in the name of Islam three years after the combat had ceased and normalcy was emerging in Chechnya. In reality he looking for power and personal gain. Jihad was his guise.

2. His followers went after all the moderates and silenced them through brutality and often murder. You either joined Basayev and Khatab or you died.

3. Before he fought for freedom for Chechnya he fought alongside the Azeris to keep the Armenians from being free...a hypocrite. He also fought alongside the Abkhaz {who also have support of Russia} against Georgia. Does that make any sense?

4. He sent his followers into Russia to deliberately kill civilians, namely children.

5. While he and his followers claimed to be holier-than-thou Islamists/ Wahabbis, they were engaging in rape, drug use and drug traffiking, slavery, etc.

[Alexandros]

On the one hand, I could have respected him had he focused solely on the freedom of his people and would not have ill-will towards him but on the other hand, this is what Basayev did and why Chechens continued to suffer:

1. Destroyed the fragile peace created by Maskhadov and Lebedev {rip} and any chances for indepedence for Chenchyna. Chechyna was on its way to freedom {de jure freedom in the very least} but he ruined it by engaging, marauding, murdering and invading Daghestan in the name of Islam three years after the combat had ceased and normalcy was emerging in Chechnya. In reality he looking for power and personal gain. Jihad was his guise.

2. His followers went after all the moderates and silenced them through brutality and often murder. You either joined Basayev and Khatab or you died.

3. Before he fought for freedom for Chechnya he fought alongside the Azeris to keep the Armenians from being free...a hypocrite. He also fought alongside the Abkhaz {who also have support of Russia} against Georgia. Does that make any sense?

4. He sent his followers into Russia to deliberately kill civilians, namely children.

5. While he and his followers claimed to be holier-than-thou Islamists/ Wahabbis, they were engaging in rape, drug use and drug traffiking, slavery, etc.

3. Before he fought for freedom for Chechnya he fought alongside the Azeris to keep the Armenians from being free...a hypocrite. He also fought alongside the Abkhaz {who also have support of Russia} against Georgia. Does that make any sense?

I read that in the article.Really weird.

[chinchilla]

There are Muslim Abkhaz, both in Turkey and Abkhazia. I had posted an article about the Armenian community in Abkhazia where this was mentioned. The article also mentioned that Abkhaz don't want to be part of the Russian Federation, although they prefer their limited independence to being a part of Georgia.

[Steph]

I read that in the article.Really weird.

I read somewhere that the actual conflict and it's causes were completely secondary to a group who simply used these wars as "training exercises" for the Chechen militias. Idealogy has never been the strong suit for Chechnya, banditry and outrages are their history.
BTW many Armenian refugees, fleeing the Kemalist invasion and the Red/White war in Armenia/Georgia, were set upon by Chechens as they headed for Vladikavkaz areas.

[ardakilic]

What happened in Beslan?

On September 6th, 2004, bloody Beslan hostage event finished. 40 % of hostages are killed by Russian units, 40 % of them are injured and medical situation of half is heavy. According to Russia, it was a Chechen terorrist attack and the evidence is 10 of fighters were Arab. Russia objected that this hostage crisis is part of Chechen war, because there is no war in Chechenya.

Actually it was a point in the line: 1999 apartment buildings assault, 2002 Moscow theatre attack and 2004 two airplane crashes. Russia used apartment assault as an excuse to invade Chechenia for a second time till Soviet Union collapsed. But the captured attackers were former KGB agents.

In 2002 Dubrovka theatre attack, it is claimed that Black Widows who lost their husbands, brothers, sons and fathers took all the play watchers hostage and put bombs into the theatre. Their demand was all Russian army units withdraw Chechenia, otherwise they would kill all the hostages. 25 % of hostages and all fighter widows were killed in the so-called rescue operation by poisony gase. "Terrorists" did NOT kill any hostage. Russia blocked independent comissions work on this event. After giving anaesthetic gase, Russia would capture all the attackers and could judge them. Some Russian authorities explained that 4 of the attackers were FSB agent and if Russia wanted, they could be prevented.

And Beslan: Any belief, any religion or any cause cannot legalize to attack innocent children. This has to be taken as an axiom.

Chechen group's real aim was Osetia Parliament and they supposed they were going there. They were misdirected by Vladimir Khodov. It was proved in continuing court trial that nobody was killed by Chechen weapons and explosion was happened outside of the school, also bomb was exploded by Russian army. It was claimed that Chechens exploded bombs inside the school and most of the deaths occured because of this.

According to eye-witnesses, after Russian helicopters landed the roof of the building, two big explosions heard and then many hostages escaped from the building by running. After the explosions, roof collapsed.

During the "rescue" operation, none of Chechens fired nor rescue teams neither hostages. 10 of them were killed in the operation with the hostages. 10 of them escaped the next building.

After some information was presented by Raf Shikorov, editor of liberal newspaper Izvestia, he was forecd to resign. Reason was "telling the Beslan story emotional more than needed and in a style which can be used by Chechen terrorists". Two opponent journalists, Anna Politkovskaya and Andrei Babitsky were blocked not to go Beslan. Georgian Rustavi-2 TV channel journalists were blocked also. Local policemen took their video casettes and cameras.

[Steph]

On September 6th, 2004, bloody Beslan hostage event finished. 40 % of hostages are killed by Russian units, 40 % of them are injured and medical situation of half is heavy. According to Russia, it was a Chechen terorrist attack and the evidence is 10 of fighters were Arab. Russia objected that this hostage crisis is part of Chechen war, because there is no war in Chechenya.

Actually it was a point in the line: 1999 apartment buildings assault, 2002 Moscow theatre attack and 2004 two airplane crashes. Russia used apartment assault as an excuse to invade Chechenia for a second time till Soviet Union collapsed. But the captured attackers were former KGB agents.

In 2002 Dubrovka theatre attack, it is claimed that Black Widows who lost their husbands, brothers, sons and fathers took all the play watchers hostage and put bombs into the theatre. Their demand was all Russian army units withdraw Chechenia, otherwise they would kill all the hostages. 25 % of hostages and all fighter widows were killed in the so-called rescue operation by poisony gase. "Terrorists" did NOT kill any hostage. Russia blocked independent comissions work on this event. After giving anaesthetic gase, Russia would capture all the attackers and could judge them. Some Russian authorities explained that 4 of the attackers were FSB agent and if Russia wanted, they could be prevented.

And Beslan: Any belief, any religion or any cause cannot legalize to attack innocent children. This has to be taken as an axiom.

Chechen group's real aim was Osetia Parliament and they supposed they were going there. They were misdirected by Vladimir Khodov. It was proved in continuing court trial that nobody was killed by Chechen weapons and explosion was happened outside of the school, also bomb was exploded by Russian army. It was claimed that Chechens exploded bombs inside the school and most of the deaths occured because of this.

According to eye-witnesses, after Russian helicopters landed the roof of the building, two big explosions heard and then many hostages escaped from the building by running. After the explosions, roof collapsed.

During the "rescue" operation, none of Chechens fired nor rescue teams neither hostages. 10 of them were killed in the operation with the hostages. 10 of them escaped the next building.

After some information was presented by Raf Shikorov, editor of liberal newspaper Izvestia, he was forecd to resign. Reason was "telling the Beslan story emotional more than needed and in a style which can be used by Chechen terrorists". Two opponent journalists, Anna Politkovskaya and Andrei Babitsky were blocked not to go Beslan. Georgian Rustavi-2 TV channel journalists were blocked also. Local policemen took their video casettes and cameras.

Okay Arda, I won't dispute this version of events.
I wholeheartedly agree with you about the unforgiveable attack on children.
But my big question to you is: Why do you feel sad?
The attack at Beslan, regardless of who caused casualties, resulted in many chlidrens' deaths. NO Chechen terrorists at the school, no deaths. That single act destroyed any credibility or support the Chechens may have had or receive.

[Alexandros]

On September 6th, 2004, bloody Beslan hostage event finished. 40 % of hostages are killed by Russian units, 40 % of them are injured and medical situation of half is heavy. According to Russia, it was a Chechen terorrist attack and the evidence is 10 of fighters were Arab. Russia objected that this hostage crisis is part of Chechen war, because there is no war in Chechenya.

Actually it was a point in the line: 1999 apartment buildings assault, 2002 Moscow theatre attack and 2004 two airplane crashes. Russia used apartment assault as an excuse to invade Chechenia for a second time till Soviet Union collapsed. But the captured attackers were former KGB agents.

In 2002 Dubrovka theatre attack, it is claimed that Black Widows who lost their husbands, brothers, sons and fathers took all the play watchers hostage and put bombs into the theatre. Their demand was all Russian army units withdraw Chechenia, otherwise they would kill all the hostages. 25 % of hostages and all fighter widows were killed in the so-called rescue operation by poisony gase. "Terrorists" did NOT kill any hostage. Russia blocked independent comissions work on this event. After giving anaesthetic gase, Russia would capture all the attackers and could judge them. Some Russian authorities explained that 4 of the attackers were FSB agent and if Russia wanted, they could be prevented.

And Beslan: Any belief, any religion or any cause cannot legalize to attack innocent children. This has to be taken as an axiom.

Chechen group's real aim was Osetia Parliament and they supposed they were going there. They were misdirected by Vladimir Khodov. It was proved in continuing court trial that nobody was killed by Chechen weapons and explosion was happened outside of the school, also bomb was exploded by Russian army. It was claimed that Chechens exploded bombs inside the school and most of the deaths occured because of this.

According to eye-witnesses, after Russian helicopters landed the roof of the building, two big explosions heard and then many hostages escaped from the building by running. After the explosions, roof collapsed.

During the "rescue" operation, none of Chechens fired nor rescue teams neither hostages. 10 of them were killed in the operation with the hostages. 10 of them escaped the next building.

After some information was presented by Raf Shikorov, editor of liberal newspaper Izvestia, he was forecd to resign. Reason was "telling the Beslan story emotional more than needed and in a style which can be used by Chechen terrorists". Two opponent journalists, Anna Politkovskaya and Andrei Babitsky were blocked not to go Beslan. Georgian Rustavi-2 TV channel journalists were blocked also. Local policemen took their video casettes and cameras.

Basayev himself claimed responsibility for the Russian school hostage siege:

Excerpts: Basayev claims Beslan

Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev has claimed responsibility for the Russian school hostage siege in which at least 320 people were killed. He blamed the Russian authorities for the deaths in Beslan. He further claimed recent bomb attacks on two Russian airliners and a Moscow metro station.
The wide-ranging statement also contains a denial of any plans to attack UK Prime Minister Tony Blair, described as a "slug". Excerpts from his statement, published in Russian on Chechen rebel websites, follow:

Link

Originally Posted by ardakilic
And Beslan: Any belief, any religion or any cause cannot legalize to attack innocent children. This has to be taken as an axiom.

And you feel sad for Basayev?I have nothing more to say.