Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Armenia: the end of the debate?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Hellektor
    replied
    Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

    Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
    Now, now... the truth about history should never be revealed or else people would start to realize they were living a lie...
    Don't worry! She's not going to find a place on this planet called “eastern Anatolia” so I'll keep it to myself.

    Leave a comment:


  • KanadaHye
    replied
    Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

    Originally posted by Hellektor View Post
    you filthy J whore! Show me where the hell “eastern Anatolia” is and I'll tell you whether your biblical six-million-gas-chamber hoax was genocide or not.
    Now, now... the truth about history should never be revealed or else people would start to realize they were living a lie...

    Leave a comment:


  • Hellektor
    replied
    Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

    Originally posted by Jos View Post
    Armenia: the end of the debate?
    By Gwynne Dyer


    THE FIRST great massacre of the 20th century happened in eastern Anatolia 94 years ago.

    ...If genocide just means killing a lot of people, then this certainly was one. If genocide means a policy that aims to exterminate a particular ethnic or religious group, then it wasn’t.
    you filthy J whore! Show me where the hell “eastern Anatolia” is and I'll tell you whether your biblical six-million-gas-chamber hoax was genocide or not.

    Leave a comment:


  • AlphaPapa
    replied
    Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

    Originally posted by Diranakir View Post
    Exactly. So what does that say about the vaunted authority of someone who, at the point he said that, had received honors and recognition and had the better part of his career as an "historian" behind him? It means he can change his tune and betray the truth at the drop of hat for the highest bidder, as someone said earlier in this thread. And there are plenty of "credentialed"
    individuals and organizations who are ready to push him forward and give him top billing. It's time for us to wise up.
    Armenias neighbor to the west is filled with such experts. Armenia DOES need to wise up. I read in hetq website about how when they went to bursa, they were given a book 'about turkey'...and how it talked about how those Armenians killed 100,000 Turks.

    We need to realize what we're dealing with. As Dodi Gago buys a water bottling plant in Bulgaria, and Armenia sells nationally owned assets to Russian companies, that it still has an obligation to its people and the government is not just some damn business oracle.

    Leave a comment:


  • Diranakir
    replied
    Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

    Exactly. So what does that say about the vaunted authority of someone who, at the point he said that, had received honors and recognition and had the better part of his career as an "historian" behind him? It means he can change his tune and betray the truth at the drop of hat for the highest bidder, as someone said earlier in this thread. And there are plenty of "credentialed"
    individuals and organizations who are ready to push him forward and give him top billing. It's time for us to wise up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Catharsis
    replied
    Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

    Originally posted by Diranakir View Post
    "...It was certainly a genocide, but it was not premeditated, nor was it systematic...."
    Dyer shows complete ignorance there since Genocide by its very definition already means premeditated and systematic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Diranakir
    replied
    Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

    For those who are still under the illusion that Gwynne Dyer is a straight talker without an agenda, please note his confusion about the meaning of the word "genocide". Apparently, between the writing of the article (from which the following quotes are taken) and his column which is the subject of this thread he reached some kind of enlightenment on that question and is now ready to say without hesitation, and assert to the whole world, that it WASN'T genocide. What cleared his mind in the intervening years? ? ?

    http://www.gwynnedyer.com/articles/G...red%20Them.txt

    " The Armenian desire to have their national tragedy given the
    same status as the . . . . Holocaust is understandable, but it is mistaken.
    The facts of the case are horrifying, and certainly justify calling the
    events in eastern Turkey in 1915-16 a genocide. . . . . It was certainly a genocide, but it was not premeditated, nor was it systematic...."
    Last edited by Diranakir; 10-31-2009, 09:44 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Diranakir
    replied
    Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

    Originally posted by Diranakir View Post
    In addition, if one looks into what Mr. Dyer has written on the Armenian Genocide (though he does not call it that) one is struck by the generous, compassionate allowance he makes for the mental and emotional distress suffered by the perpetrators of the genocide and which he presents as making the "crime" ( his own term) perfectly understandable. He tells us they were running scared and didn't quite know what to do. They were in "panic" at imminent victories of the allies with a southern assault, all aided by Armenians (who were fighting for their life and had no state institutions they could fully rely on). Gripped with this "panic" they methodically went through every Armenian town, village and hamlet in Anatolia over a period of at least two years and coolly told everyone to get out and march for the deserts of Der Zor, all to prepare for an assault that never happened! Ridiculous! And does he show a shred of sympathy for the distress of these innocents torn from their homes to be tortured in death marches and sent to their death? He does not. All his sympathy is for those in Ottoman uniforms. This is the measure of the man, this high paid and very successful "historian".
    From Mr. Dyer's: Turkish 'Falsifiers' and Armenian 'Deceivers': Historiography and the Armenian Massacres, Middle Eastern Studies, Vol. 12, No. 1 (Jan. 1976), pp. 99-107

    "When more work is completed on the period I believe that historians will come to see Talat, Enver and their associates not so much as evil men but as desperate, frightened, unsophisticated men struggling to keep their nation afloat in a crisis far graver than they had anticipated when they first entered the war (the Armenian decisions were taken at the height of the crisis of the Dardanelles), reacting to events rather than creating them, and not fully realizing the "tent of the horrors they had set in motion in 'Turkish Armenia' until they were too deeply committed to withdraw. As for the complicity of ordinary Turks with their leaders, hatred and revenge and blind panic were the motives for the behaviour of the Ottoman army and the Muslim Population of eastern Anatolia in the Armenian massacres, scarcely creditable motives, nor ones an Armenian is likely to forgive, but common enough in all nations and even understandable in the Turkish situation in the East in 1915."
    Last edited by Diranakir; 10-27-2009, 07:49 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Catharsis
    replied
    Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

    Originally posted by Pedro Xaramillo View Post
    What absolute tosh, how are Armenians getting a good deal from this, this signs away historical Armenian claims, and it can by way of wording harm Artsakh, who is this idiot anyway and having a blog that a bunch of people view does not make him right, its once again probably Turkish financial influence driving this, I wonder how close he is with the Turkish government
    The Turkish government for decades has denied and ignored the resolutions by the Association of Genocide Scholars (whose countless members are amongst the chairs of genocide studies and international genocide prevention groups) to recognize the Armenian Genocide. The Turkish government has spent billions in their genocide denial campaign to "recruit" corrupt and immoral "scholars" like Justin McCarthy or Heath Lowry who have no moral or academic standards and would stoop so low. I cannot say that Dyer is one of them with certainty, since I do not have direct evidence, however I would not be surprised at all, given the treatment he has received at the hands of the Turkish government, while scholars who have published works on the Armenian Genocide are vociferously attacked and silenced by the fascist junta inside Turkey.

    Leave a comment:


  • Anoush
    replied
    Re: Armenia: the end of the debate?

    Originally posted by Pedro Xaramillo View Post
    What absolute tosh, how are Armenians getting a good deal from this, this signs away historical Armenian claims, and it can by way of wording harm Artsakh, who is this idiot anyway and having a blog that a bunch of people view does not make him right, its once again probably Turkish financial influence driving this, I wonder how close he is with the Turkish government
    Very well said Pedro jan.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X