Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Castrated Armenian carpets!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Castrated Armenian carpets!

    Came across this old discussion about stylised motifs of nude male figures in carpets. http://www.turkotek.com/misc_00059/nude.htm that turns into a discussion about Armenian carpets.

    One of the members of the Armenian Rug Society (whose website is http://www.armenianrugssociety.com/m...s_society.html), Loretta Boxdorfer, points out that many such carpets are Armenian in origin. And in a later posting, she tells of how, for the catalogue of an exhibition in San Franciso of Armenian carpets ("Passages: Celebrating Rites of Passage in Inscribed Armenian Rugs"), photos of images on the carpets were "doctored prior to publication in the catalog. Apparently, two members of the committee insisted that the penuses be removed!"
    Last edited by bell-the-cat; 04-15-2013, 09:16 AM.
    Plenipotentiary meow!

  • #2
    Re: Castrated Armenian carpets!

    I am not going to spend my time teasing apart content from insults. Follow the rules or your posts will be removed in their entirety.
    [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
    -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Castrated Armenian carpets!

      bell, I just had a look at this.

      I'm afraid I know very little about rugs, whether Persian or Armenian/Caucasian but I found one of the posts about the Soviet reduction of traditional designs into primitive stereotypical designs interesting.

      The censorship doesn't really surprise me.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Castrated Armenian carpets!

        International Conference
        “Armenian knot: tradition of carpet weaving art”
        November 20-22, 2013, Yerevan, Armenia


        Ministry of Culture of the Republic of Armenia and Hovhannes Sharambeyan Centre of Popular Creation are organizing international conference “Armenian knot: tradition of carpet weaving art” to explore issues of Armenian carpet.

        The conference will mainly focus on the following topics:

        · Research and typology of Armenian Carpet weaving. Its role in Middle Eastern carpet weaving art
        · Armenian carpets in foreign museums; private collections of Armenian carpets
        · Interrelationship between ornamentation principles of the artistic weaving of the Armenian carpet, needlework and lace, miniature painting, applied and monumental art
        · Traditional and modern carpet
        · Modern technologies of carpet restoration
        · Issues regarding preservation, exposition and research of fabric in museum collections

        http://armacad.blogspot.com/2013/05/...dition-of.html

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Castrated Armenian carpets!

          Was there anything about the reason for the "castration" that I didn't catch? Is this different than the "castration" of statues?
          [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
          -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Castrated Armenian carpets!

            Armenian ‘orphan rug’ is in White House storage, as unseen as genocide is neglected

            By Philip Kennicott, Published: October 21

            The rug was woven by orphans in the 1920s and formally presented to the White House in 1925. A photograph shows President Calvin Coolidge standing on the carpet, which is no mere juvenile effort, but a complicated, richly detailed work that would hold its own even in the largest and most ceremonial rooms.

            If you can read a carpet’s cues, the plants and animals depicted on the rug may represent the Garden of Eden, which is about as far removed as possible from the rug’s origins in the horrific events of 1915, when the fracturing and senescent Ottoman Empire began a murderous campaign against its Armenian population. Between 1 million and 1.5 million people were killed or died of starvation, and others were uprooted from their homes in what has been termed the first modern and systematic genocide. Many were left orphans, including the more than 100,000 children who were assisted by the U.S.-sponsored Near East Relief organization, which helped relocate and protect the girls who wove the “orphan rug.” It was made in the town of Ghazir, now in Lebanon, as thanks for the United States’ assistance during the genocide.

            There was hope that the carpet, which has been in storage for almost 20 years, might be displayed Dec. 16 as part of a Smithsonian event that would include a book launch for Hagop Martin Deranian’s “President Calvin Coolidge and the Armenian Orphan Rug.” But on Sept. 12, the Smithsonian scholar who helped organize the event canceled it, citing the White House’s decision not to loan the carpet. In a letter to two Armenian American organizations, Paul Michael Taylor, director of the institution’s Asian cultural history program, had no explanation for the White House’s refusal to allow the rug to be seen and said that efforts by the U.S. ambassador to Armenia, John A. Heffern, to intervene had also been unavailing.

            Although Taylor, Heffern and the White House curator, William G. Allman, had discussed during a January meeting the possibility of an event that might include the rug, it became clear that the rug wasn’t going to emerge from deep hiding.

            “This week I spoke again with the White House curator asking if there was any indication of when a loan might be possible again but he has none,” wrote Taylor in the letter. Efforts to contact Heffern through the embassy in the Armenian capital of Yerevan were unsuccessful, and the State Department referred all questions to the White House.

            Last week, the White House issued a statement: “The Ghazir rug is a reminder of the close relationship between the peoples of Armenia and the United States. We regret that it is not possible to loan it out at this time.”

            That leaves the rug, and the sponsors of the event, in limbo, a familiar place for Armenians. Neither Ara Ghazarians of the Armenian Cultural Foundation nor Levon Der Bedrossian of the Armenian Rugs Society can be sure if the event they had helped plan was canceled for the usual political reason: fear of negative reaction from Turkey, which has resolutely resisted labeling the events at the end of the Ottoman Empire a genocide. But both suspect it might have been.

            “Turkey is a very powerful country,” says Der Bedrossian, whose organization was planning to fund a reception for the event.

            And it’s a sign of the Obama administration’s dismal reputation in the Armenian American community that everyone assumes it must be yet another slap in the face for Armenians seeking to promote understanding of one of the darkest chapters in 20th-century history.

            Aram Suren Hamparian, executive director of the Armenian National Committee of America, says the president has had “a very negative reception across the board in the Armenian world, and that includes both Democrats and Republicans.” The principal emotion is profound disappointment. As a candidate, and senator, Obama spoke eloquently about the Armenian genocide, risking the ire of Turkey and Turkish organizations. But since taking office, says Hamparian, Obama has avoided the word, making more general statements about Armenian suffering. Critics of his silence point to the geopolitical importance of Turkey in a region made only more complex by the Arab Spring and a brutal civil war in Syria.

            The word genocide is a flash point in the ongoing animosity between Turkey, Armenia and the Armenian diaspora. Turkish resistance to accepting the historical facts of the Armenian genocide has included wholesale denial that the events took place, an effort to contextualize them as the fallout of a complicated, violent period, and semantic argument based on the 1948 legal definition of genocide, established by the United Nations. Independent scholars have eviscerated the first of these claims, demonstrated the bad faith of the second (the treatment of the Armenians was egregious) and grappled seriously with the legal particulars, especially the difficulty of proving the “intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such.” But few seriously argue that the events weren’t genocidal.

            Samantha Power, for example, uses the term “Armenian genocide” throughout her landmark 2002 book on genocide, “A Problem From Hell.” Power was appointed by Obama to serve as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, and was confirmed in August.

            But the president’s language has been more circumspect. As a candidate, he said, “The Armenian genocide is not an allegation, a personal opinion or a point of view, but rather a widely documented fact supported by an overwhelming body of historical evidence. America deserves a leader who speaks truthfully about the Armenian genocide and responds forcefully to all genocides.” But in his most recent presidential proclamation honoring April 24’s Armenian Remembrance Day, he used the Armenian term “Meds Yeghern” — “great calamity” — while avoiding explicit mention of genocide.

            U.S. government officials and the Smithsonian have been reluctant to address a controversy that is often dismissed as just another intractable historical dispute. Although Armenian musicians performed at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival in 2002, a Smithsonian spokeswoman says the institution hasn’t taken up the subject of the genocide, a remarkable omission of scholarship concerning an important ethnic group in the United States and one of the last century’s most critical and notorious historical events. (Even Adolf Hitler supposedly referred to the Armenian genocide in a quote that is also disputed by some scholars: “Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?” he asked in a speech just before Germany invaded Poland in 1939.)

            In Power’s book, the author notes the power of “Turkish objections” to prevent official U.S. recognition of the genocide. As a presidential candidate, Obama said in a statement that he “stood with the Armenian American community in calling for Turkey’s acknowledgment of the Armenian Genocide.” But April’s presidential proclamation finessed the delicate situation by saying, “I have consistently stated my own view of what occurred in 1915, and my view has not changed,” suggesting he strongly supports a truth he no longer has the courage to utter.

            Calls and e-mails to the Turkish Embassy in Washington weren’t returned.

            The status of the rug remains ambiguous. It was last taken out of storage in 1995 and is reported to be in good condition. But a White House spokesman declined to answer questions about whether it might ever be seen again, if the climate is simply too politicized for the rug to be exhibited.

            And the Smithsonian is distancing itself from Taylor. “Dr. Taylor put this together on his own, nobody knew about it, certainly senior leadership didn’t know about it,” says Randall Kremer, who handles public affairs for the National Museum of Natural History, where Taylor is employed.

            Taylor says he doesn’t want to speculate about why the White House won’t lend the object, and he says he isn’t an expert on the tortured politics of the region. It was the rug, its iconography, its status among Armenians and its history that intrigued him, especially after hearing Armenians discuss it during a 2012 visit to Armenia.

            “We’re not afraid of doing Armenian exhibitions,” he says. “I would love to do one.”

            Although the White House can offer no explanation about why the rug is off limits to the American people, Der Bedrossian is optimistic that it might someday see the light of day.

            “Rug weaving is a metaphor for me: We can make peace weaving together,” he says. “We are patient. I tend to believe in miracles. Someday it will come.”

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/entert...40e_story.html
            [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
            -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Castrated Armenian carpets!

              Thanks for that Siggie.

              But are those involved incapable of composing a wriggle-proof question that will force a direct answer from the White House about why the carpet is not available?

              It's my experience that Armenian organisations tend to never ask the most pertinent questions, never word the questions they do ask in the best way, pose questions that they think will put them in good standing within their community rather than ask questions that directly concern the recipient of the questions, and are often too deferential to those in power.
              Plenipotentiary meow!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Castrated Armenian carpets!

                Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
                Thanks for that Siggie.

                But are those involved incapable of composing a wriggle-proof question that will force a direct answer from the White House about why the carpet is not available?

                It's my experience that Armenian organisations tend to never ask the most pertinent questions, never word the questions they do ask in the best way, pose questions that they think will put them in good standing within their community rather than ask questions that directly concern the recipient of the questions, and are often too deferential to those in power.
                You bet.
                I found the uncertainty puzzling too, but maybe it's just cautious reporting? A bunch of appears, seems, etc. type language, but headlines from ANCA asserted it more factually. I assume they probably wouldn't receive an answer to the direct question even if it was asked. Wouldn't they just answer that with some more acceptable reason?
                [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
                -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Castrated Armenian carpets!

                  Sad story-just like our peoples story...pretty soonthey will be saying what carpet?
                  Hayastan or Bust.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Castrated Armenian carpets!

                    In a letter sent earlier today to President Obama's Chief of Staff,
                    Denis McDonough, ANCA Chairman Ken Hachikian reminded the White
                    House that "upon receiving the rug, President Coolidge wrote,
                    'The rug has a place of honor in the White House where it will be
                    a daily symbol of goodwill on earth.' I ask you, in this spirit, to
                    remove any obstacles to the Smithsonian's display of this historic
                    artwork and to secure a prominent and permanent public home for this
                    powerful symbol of America's humanitarian values and friendship with
                    the Armenian people," continued Hachikian.

                    Placing this latest controversy in context, Hachikian noted that:
                    "since taking office, President Obama has not only failed to recognize
                    the Armenian Genocide, but has actively blocked Congressional
                    legislation (H.Res.252, 111th Congress) to commemorate this atrocity
                    and, through his Solicitor General, officially opposed efforts in the
                    U.S. courts (Arzoumanian v. Munchener Ruckversicherungs-Gesellschaft
                    Aktiengesellschaft AG) to allow American citizens to pursue
                    Genocide-era property claims. In addition, the Administration has
                    regularly sent senior officials to speak at events organized by
                    Armenian Genocide deniers, while refusing repeated invitations to
                    simply attend Congressional observances of this atrocity. In these
                    areas, and, sadly, many more, the President has not simply failed
                    to honor his pledge, but rather - in both letter and spirit - worked
                    to fundamentally undermine and reverse the very policies he pledged
                    to pursue."

                    According to Dr. Hagop Deranian, the Armenian orphan rug measures
                    11'7" x 18'5" and is comprised of 4,404,206 individual knots. It
                    took the Armenian girls in the Ghazir Orphanage of the Near East
                    Relief Society 10 months to weave. A label on the back of the rug,
                    in large hand-written letters, reads "IN GOLDEN RULE GRATITUDE TO
                    PRESIDENT COOLIDGE."

                    Source: Panorama.am
                    Hayastan or Bust.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X