Ignorance

[winoman]

As usual poor misunderstood Stevie profers his distorted view of reality. I have no problem listening to music driving 9 hours across Turkey - of course the alternative is his glib commentary - complaints self-conciously mumbled under his breath where no one can understand. And some guide - afraid to share any insigthts for fear we will steal his pressure ideas or some such. And don't blame me for losing your (not) girlfriend - the fault was all yours.

[winoman]

BTW - your comment about harput is likewise a distorion. What i din'nt know was that Elazig was harput - I am very familiar with what occured in harput and for you to suggest otherwise does your "case' no good. I didn't know that you were Turkish Steve - but your posts on this forum are much like them - they come here and think to "score points" when in fact every posts exposes them as the ignoramuses....

[One-Way]

What sums up this whole "Ignorance" thread is to say that it is ignorant to even bring up the subject of peoples' musical tastes. It's best for us all to stay on less important and less controversial subjects, such as religion, or the Genocide.

Ok. You must've took that in a bad way- I was agreeing with you. But ok. You obviously don't understand what I'm trying to say. For the 10th time, I'm not trying to change anyones musical tastes.

[Anonymouse]

This is all very useful information.

[Che_Ka]

As much as I despise (!) rap and hip-hop, I will not discredit it. It is just another form of popular music.

I say this because people often smirk or have a snappy comment when I tell them one of my passions in life is dance music. They think it's not a credible form of music. Like I say in Armenian, "verchin hokuhs!" (My last worry.) I love dance music in all of its forms (house, electroclash, electropop, europop, techno, etc). It breathes life into me. Most people don't understand.

So that's why -- as much as I can't stand rap and hip-hop (along with other genres), I still respect them as valid forms of popular music. And I still respect other people's taste in music. I know there are people out there who feel about rap/hip-hop the way I feel about dance music.

Live and let live. Tolerate and respect.

[bell-the-cat]

Ok. You must've took that in a bad way- I was agreeing with you. But ok. You obviously don't understand what I'm trying to say. For the 10th time, I'm not trying to change anyones musical tastes.

I did understand (or, at least, I think I did understand ).

But what seems to be being said is
1. that rap music is a cultural expression and thus it is taboo in our PC society to actually criticise it regardless of its content or the values expressed through the music.
2. That "real" rap music is not the same as the rap that we, the ordinary listeners, are exposed to in a commercial environment.

For the first, this has no more validity than someone who says it is OK to accept female circumcision, or foot binding, or eating the meat of protected animals, or the religious killing of animals in ways that are obviously cruel because they are all the legitimate cultural expressions of ethnic minorities.

For the second, this may be true and probably is true. However it is rather like those Muslims who go around saying that the fanaticism and intolerance and repression that seems to always accompany their faith is not actually the true expression of Islam. If only 1% of rap music is actually "true" rap, then it is the remaining 99% that is actually defining to the world what rap is.

[bell-the-cat]

BTW - your comment about harput is likewise a distorion. What i din'nt know was that Elazig was harput - I am very familiar with what occured in harput and for you to suggest otherwise does your "case' no good.

If you search through your drug-enfeebled braincells, you may recall that the evening before, in Kayseri, I had told you of the Syrian church in Elazig that had been recently given back to the worshipers, that it was in the ruins of old Harput, and that since we would be passing it on a Sunday it would be interesting to stop and visit it. So you did know that Elazig was Harput. You may also recall the clothing you chose to wear that Sunday: shorts, sandals, baggy vest - unsuitable attire for visiting an operating church, so I did not mention the church again.

However, this is all off-topic, and I will not reply to any more of your comments unless they are on-topic.

[winoman]

I recal you mentioning a Church that was on the way to Tatvan - I don't recall direct mention of Elazig or Harput. Regardless I didn't know that Elazig was Harput and instead of just informing me of this you derided me for not knowing my history - which is untrue - and as you may recall your negative comments and poor attitude led to the other passengers deriding you for being an a s e h o l e. And yes - I chose to wear shorts (with zip on long pant extensions BTW), sandals (only shoes I brought along) and a sleevless shirt as we were driving accross a quite warm Southeastern Turkey for 9+ hours...I also seem to recall you repeatedly crying about wanting more air conditioning in the car where the rest of us - not bundled up like an eskimo - were doing just fine with the windows down and the nice breeze. I can recount many more stories of you being a pompous a s s on this trip whereby al the rest of the party unamously decided to dump you 3 days into a 2 week trip where you were in theory to be our guide. And foremost among those who could no longer stand to be in your presence was your suposed girlfriend who had quitre a few choice words to describe you and your behavior. I must say I can get along with just about everyone - but I have rarely come accross any individual who is so consitently obsessively self-centered, anti-social, arrogant and just down right rude and caustic as you.

And I think it is pretty clear who has been instigating these continual off topic whiney comments and barbs directed at me for no reason other then you being an anti-social poor sport (boo hoo hoo she left me - waaah!!! ) cry baby. All the faults on that trip (and before) were yours. Additionally I made numerous attempts to reconcile you with your friend however it was quite clear that she had had enough of you - making her sob and cry repeatedly during those few days and prior to our arrival - not being concerned with her but only yourself (which was typical from the start as I was made quite explicitly aware - etc). So before you start blaming others for your failings you really need to examine yourself as a person - you are really quite a poor example of one on all levels. Grow up and be a real man already. I can hardly believe what an undeveloped socail reject you are.

[winoman]

There is no doubt that a tremendous amont of Rap is just poor garbage - as exists in all popular music (think country music here folks...but OK there are a few good tunes even there...). However Rap as an art form has given us many truly inspirational (and fun!) performances - and at its root it is a noteworthy expression of certain cultural elements and perspectives. The problem with anyone who off the cuff just rejects something is that they are revealing their own cultural biases, predjudices and bigotry. The word that was used earlier that is right on is tolerance - or in the case of some - intolerance. Intolerance and lack of appreciation for anything that even remotely falls outside of their very narrowly defined views of acceptability. It is really more of a statement of the limitations of perspective of that individual - and this is somehting that is carried through not only in music but throghout their life and can be seen in their attitudes denigrating and aspiring to other negatively only because they cannot relate. People who are obsessively narrowly focused epitomize these behaviors and they tend to be both anti-social and terribly unfun to be around....

[nairi]

But what seems to be being said is
1. that rap music is a cultural expression and thus it is taboo in our PC society to actually criticise it regardless of its content or the values expressed through the music.

Where did you get this from? No one said you have no right to criticize or analyze music, whatever it may be.

2. That "real" rap music is not the same as the rap that we, the ordinary listeners, are exposed to in a commercial environment.

There's nothing real or unreal about rap. Rap, as I already said, is simply a form of singing. Whoever sings that way, raps per definition.

If only 1% of rap music is actually "true" rap, then it is the remaining 99% that is actually defining to the world what rap is.

Again, there is no such thing as "true" rap, nor is anyone claiming that there is. We're just saying that there are different branches of rap; two of the greatest being commercial rap and underground rap. Neither is truer than the other.