Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

[Azad]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

These images might be distasteful, its reality. I have some compassion for Georgians if they can be saved from their filthy behavior that is becoming so turkish.


"Coffins containing Georgian soldiers killed during the recent fighting are seen, in Tskhinvali, main city of South Ossetia, prior to the funerals, Monday, Aug. 18, 2008"


"Georgian servicemen bury unknown Georgian soldiers killed in the armed conflict between Georgia and Russian-backed South Ossetian separatists during a funeral in Tbilisi August 19, 2008."

[Deadsy]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Keep calling me Turk it's quite sad but you seem to be enjoying it. Thankfully most of us don't have this mentality whereby we label our own people as actually being a member of the enemy simply because of their viewpoint or perspective on a certain issue.

The South Ossetian capital has not been "razed". There are photos online everywhere, yes there is damage but Grozny in 99 is what you would call "razed". Yes there is a lot of damage in Tskinvali. But there is no need to exaggerate things, show me the pictures of these razed buildings?

You speak of intent as if you were sitting next to Saakaxxxx when he gave out the order. What can you say about Putin (oh I'm sorry, Medvedev! Medvedev is in charge now not Pooty-Poot... right...), what about his intent? To protect Russian citizens? I've heard that if you want Russian citizenship all you have to do is move to Tskinvali and buy some bread.

And Azad, there are some nice images around that show who put the bodies in those coffins. Georgian men, with South Ossetian armed "guards" watching over.

[Deadsy]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1424077.php/The_Russian_army_loves_its_NATO_loot__Feature_

The Russian army loves its NATO loot (Feature)

By Stefan Korshak Aug 14, 2008, 16:07 GMT

Gori/Tbilisi - The troopers of Russia's 58th Army, fresh from chasing their US-trained Georgian opponents out of South Ossetia, are just in love with their NATO-issue loot.

'Check out this war trophy,' a T-62 tank commander named Viktor proudly pointed out to a Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa reporter. 'A real NATO-standard bayonet!'

Russia's soldiers currently occupying the Gori district of northern Georgia - abandoned by the Georgian army without a shot - are festooned with personal military kit previously owned by their enemy Georgia, whose government is intent on joining the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

Some soldiers, like Viktor, chose to obtain just a souvenir. One of the most popular formerly Georgian military items now in Russian hands is a spiffy black-handled knife.

Viktor's mates said the weapon, sometimes issued in a snappy leg holster, is suitable for locking onto a US M-16 automatic rifle sold to Georgia, and holds a great edge.

'There were piles of them in the depot over there,' said a sergeant name Oleg, pointing with his thumb to a plume of smoke rising from behind a hill. 'The Georgians just ran, they didn't even take their (expletive deleted) stuff with them.'

The Georgian city of Gori was, until approximately the third day of the Ossetia war, the site of a Georgian infantry brigade base. Much of its supplies, the Russians said, were NATO standard in keeping with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili's enthusiasm for 'Western integration.'

Unfortunately for Saakashvili, Russian armoured columns tipped with weather-beaten tanks crewed by men like Oleg and Viktor rumbled into Georgia proper on day four of the war and proceeded to demolish the base.

Saakashvili's media spin machine kicked into high gear, accusing the Russians of violating ceasefire terms (almost certainly) and systematically looting the Georgian countryside (of which independent observers have found little evidence.)

But the Kremlin and the men of the 58th Army paid little attention, and according to other troopers interviewed the Georgian army base at Gori became sort of a free military accoutrements shopping mart for discerning Russian soldiers interested in the latest in combat style.

Russian soldiers guarding access routes to Gori, on Thursday, were proudly wearing a remarkably wide selection of 'personal items' more commonly seen on soldiers wearing US or other NATO uniforms.

Highly popular among the Russians was US-issue 'web gear,' a torso harness used for hanging useful things like bandage packets, ropes, ammunition pouches stamped with 'US,' olive drab flashlights, and canteens.

One Russian soldier riding in a BMP armored personnel carrier had grabbed US-issue web gear with an mobile phone intact, left there by its former Georgian owner.

A BMP gunner describing himself as an 'average Siberian guy' had hung his newly-acquired web gear on his vehicle's turret door, just like veteran US soldiers in US-made turrets in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Much of the Georgian-bought equipment now in Russian hands had little military value: reflective sunglasses similar to US Iraq desert issue, camouflage utility vests designed for NATO grenades and so not really suitable for Russian grenades, and the venerable US Army web belt, holding up dozens of pairs of baggy camouflaged Russian trousers.

But some of the gear made its new Russian owner an undeniably more survivable soldier: Kevlar vests and helmets, flares, and medical kits - all lighter, easier to use, and harder to break than the Russian counterpart - were among the booty now being worn.

As a general rule, the 58th Army's non-commissioned officers - veterans of Chechnya with at least a couple of years of service and sometimes more - got first pick. Privates mostly wore standard Russian army issue, as did officers.

'It's something to take home, to show your friends, to remember your service days when you get old,' a corporal said. 'It shows we were victorious.'

Oh and this one is interesting:


Georgian POWs. Look at their trigger fingers.

[Armenian]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

What the fuck is your problem? This is a war EU, USA, Britain, Turkey and Israel - directly caused. This is also a war Russia was hoping for.

Yes you are right. Georgian civilians were killed; Georgian homes and installations were looted; Ossetian civilian death were exaggerated; Tskhinvali was not "razed" to the ground; Russia is currently occupying about half of Georgia; and Russia is threatening nuclear strikes on its enemies...

So what? This is a nasty war that Georgia and its international supporters started - and Russia is finishing it on its terms.

The aggressors here is clearly the Georgian side and the Russians are using all sorts of methods, from propaganda to overwhelming use of force, to ensure their victory in the Caucasus region. As a matter of fact, Tbilisi needs to be bombed until Saakashvili's government surrenders or flees the country. Besides which, what Russia is doing in Georgia, or what it did in Chechnya, pales in comparison to what the "forces of freedom and democracy" have been doing in Iraq for the past twenty years and what they are attempting to do in Iran...

Wake the fuck up. I think you are a "Bolsahai" but should be no excuse for your stupidity and irrationality.

Again, what the fuck is your problem?

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ne...loot__Feature_





Oh and this one is interesting:


Georgian POWs. Look at their trigger fingers.

[D3ADSY]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

I was just posting news. I didn't mean anything by it. So what's your problem?

What the fuck is your problem?

I just wish more people were, I dunno, level-headed? about this kind of stuff. Like here when you say:

This is a war EU, USA, Britain, Turkey and Israel - directly caused. This is also a war Russia was hoping for.

Yes you are right. Georgian civilians were killed; Georgian homes and installations were looted; Ossetian civilian death were exaggerated; Tskhinvali was not "razed" to the ground; Russia is currently occupying about half of Georgia; and Russia is threatening nuclear strikes on its enemies...

People can support whoever they want, but don't change the facts to make yourself feel better, to make it seem like you are morally superior or whatever, whilst doing so. That's my problem. You see it everywhere. People are so weak they either create lies or swallow them without question just so they can feel better about themselves and whatever perspective or opinion they hold on a certain matter.

Ok. The vast majority of us support Russia, fine, that's almost a given isn't it? But there is no need to mask what's. I came here to read what people had to say about the conflict and honestly I was a little surprised by what I saw. I'm stupid and irrational? Stupid and irrational posts litter this thread, "15% of pop. erased in 24 hours", "genocide", anything said that goes against what people want to believe is "propaganda". I don't even think some of you know what ethnic-cleansing means. People don't have to die for an area to be "ethnically-cleansed".

[Hye_Psycho]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

People can support whoever they want, but don't change the facts to make yourself feel better, to make it seem like you are morally superior or whatever, whilst doing so. That's my problem. You see it everywhere. People are so weak they either create lies or swallow them without question just so they can feel better about themselves and whatever perspective or opinion they hold on a certain matter.

Ok. The vast majority of us support Russia, fine, that's almost a given isn't it? But there is no need to mask what's. I came here to read what people had to say about the conflict and honestly I was a little surprised by what I saw. I'm stupid and irrational? Stupid and irrational posts litter this thread, "15% of pop. erased in 24 hours", "genocide", anything said that goes against what people want to believe is "propaganda". I don't even think some of you know what ethnic-cleansing means. People don't have to die for an area to be "ethnically-cleansed".

listen rat, your the one that started randomly deleteing members acounts for not comforming to your outwardly irrelevent "point".

1) if i were you i would take a long hard look at the dictionary, and look up the word "W A R"

2) realise that the state of Georgia started the "war"..started to ethnically clense.. started to invade.. started to kill russian citizens (this is hard facts, no matter the numbers game you wish to play)

3) now invisage the roll of the west in all this.. color revolution, millitary training, nato, weapons sold. this isnt georgia the poor little post-soviet 'democratic' country. this is georgia the western backed, funded and nationalist state whos aggressive skulldugery is anfamous amoung armenians, ossetians, abkhaz (something you simply refuse to comrehend)

4) realise (please try) the geo-politics of Georgia and the oppertunity this presented itself for Russia. Russia is a superpower looking out for its own interests, which in this case also benefits Armenia.


sit down. shut up.

[Yedtarts]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

THE SAD DESTINY OF PROJECT-STATES


Many people argue about the issue of “why did Georgian president Mikhail Sahakashvily invade South Ossia just before the Olympic games in Beijing?” But it is a big question whether the Georgian President takes decision by himself.

Actually if we observe the results of the invasion of the Georgian army into South Ossia from the point of view of Georgian nationalist, then we will come to a conclusion that Sahakashvily is either a Russian agent or he has mental problems.

Judge yourselves the recent Georgian military drive led to the following: South Ossia got rid of its Georgian inhabitants, Abkhazia occupied Kodor gorge, and finally the Russian troops appeared in Georgian territory – in Gory and Zugdidy. Which means that Russian “hawks” fulfilled their dream of forcing Georgia to its knees.

We can find certain logic in the recent steps taken by Georgia, if we observe them in the context of the orders received from its backer - the US leadership.

It is not a secret that the US made great use of the results of South-Ossian developments, by isolating its rival Russia in the international arena. The meeting of NATO member country Foreign Ministers, organized yesterday, was aimed at the before mentioned, which put forward serious demands for Russia. Later the USA and its allies can use this fact to deprive Russia from the right of organizing 2014 Olympic games.

But this will not change anything for thousands of Georgians, who over again appeared in the role of refugees.

Georgia is really a “special” country, as it is accepted in the present international language, it is a project-state and the decisions are taken in quite different places. By the way Ukraine is also considered a project-state.

For the implementation of the recent bizarre decisions taken by the Georgian leadership, all the means – arms and techniques and even the “advisers” were imported from overseas. The last proof is the armaments abandoned by the Georgian army, which has been found in South Ossia and Kodor gorge, which costs hundred million dollars. The quantity of those armaments was so big that Abkhazian leadership even intended to officially thank Georgian President M. Sahakashvily.

But neither the latter nor the Georgian servicemen are concerned about it because they are far not responsible for the recruitment of their arsenals.

Moreover, recently Swedish journalist Wolfgang Hanson and Matthias Carlson clarified that because of the recent developments in South-Ossia Belgian PR-consultant Patrick Worm, who is also the consultant of Aspect Consulting PR-Company visited Tbilisy to organize a propaganda PR-campaign against Russia. Most of his partners in Aspect Consulting are in NATO’s headquarter in Brussels at the moment and the preparation works of this propaganda campaign has started still in November of this year.

It is quite understandable that in this sphere as well Georgia and its people are in the role of simple puppets, because they don’t have any idea from where this information comes and why they sow this much hatred towards the neighbor countries and peoples.

It turns out that Georgia is, in reality, a virtual state, which gets orders to attack South Ossia, to use certain amount of armaments in order to completely annihilate Tskhenvaly, and later retreat, so that their Western backers can have the possibility to hue and cry, and spread misinformation by the help of their PR-Consultant who has long ago visited Tbilisy from Brussels.

It is not excluded that tomorrow this virtual state, to be more precise, those who lead this country, will come to a decision to partake in US’s new geopolitical initiatives – against Russia, Iran and other countries of the region. And every time we will record the fact that Georgian people suffer over and over again having no idea of the reasons.

American project-states, Georgia in South Caucasus and Ukraine in Eastern Europe have turned into the sources of permanent instability, for their neighbors.

But in our view the wars deriving from those countries are not as dangerous as the threat of the export of the political systems formed in those countries.

It is especially dangerous for a small state like Armenia, which, being located in the crossroad of serious geopolitical interests is rather motivating for the superpowers, which create virtual states by means of “colored revolutions”.

Can you imagine what was going to happen in our country had they managed to realize the “colored revolution” during the previous presidential elections? No doubt in that case our country will also be involved in Sahakashvily’s adventurousness with all the negative consequences deriving from it.

By becoming the eyewitnesses of the sufferings and senseless victims of the Georgian people we can come to a conclusion that sensible nations learn on the mistakes of their neighbors and never allow others to make their country a project-state that gradually turns into a shabby tool for geopolitical games.

ARMEN TSATURYAN

http://www.armtown.com/news/en/has/20080820/280589789/

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Ground-shaking annoucement folks!

Russia to recognise breakaway region's independence

Georgia's breakway region of Abkhazia declared today that it would ask Russia to recognise its independence in a move that threatens to trigger a new crisis in the Caucasus.

The Abkhaz parliament said that it would send a formal request for recognition to President Dmitri Medvedev in Moscow tomorrow. Deputy speaker Vyacheslav Tsugba said: "The people of Abkhazia intend to ask the Russian leadership to recognise Abkhazia."

The Speaker of Russia's upper house of parliament, the Federation Council, said that legislators were ready to support the request and to extend recognition to South Ossetia too. Sergei Mironov told the Interfax news agency: "The Federation Council is ready to recognise the independent status of South Ossetia and Abkhazia if that is what the people of these republics want and also if there is a corresponding decision by the Russian president."

Mr Mironov's deputy, Svetlana Orlova, announced an emergency session of the Federation Council for Monday to discuss recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent states.

Abkhazia and South Ossetia are recognised internationally as parts of Georgia, although both have been de facto independent since breaking away from the central government in Tbilisi in vicious wars during the early 1990s.

Abkhazia wants independence and South Ossetians want to reunite with their ethnic kin inside Russia in North Ossetia.

Moscow has funded both for years and distributed Russian passports to their residents, justifying its intervention in South Ossetia last week by the need to protect Russian citizens.

Mr Medvedev has already pledged to "make the decision which unambiguously supports the will of these two Caucasus peoples". But any Kremlin move to recognise the breakaway regions would trigger condemnation in the United States and Europe, which have repeatedly insisted on respect for Georgia's territorial integity.

It would almost certainly lead to a fresh confrontation, as President Mikheil Saakashvili appeals for international aid to prevent Russia annexing Georgian land. Nato declared its support for "Georgia’s independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity" at yesterday's emergency meeting of foreign ministers.

But President Medvedev and his mentor, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, will point to the precedent established in Kosovo, despite continuing Kremlin opposition to its independence from Russia's ally Serbia. Mr Putin has already warned the West that Kosovo would set an example for separatists in the countries of the former Soviet Union.

Temur Yakobashvili, Georgia's Minister for Reintegration, sought to play down the development, saying: "It's the police who must deal with people like the leaders of separatists in Abkhazia, not me."

Mr Saakashvili has long argued that any declaration of independence by Abkhazia is meaningless because at least 200,000 ethnic Georgians were expelled from the region after the war 16 years ago and remain refugees. He has insisted that they be allowed to return home, a move rejected by the separatists who argue that the Abkhaz would be a minority in their own homeland.

Thousands of Georgians have fled or been driven from their homes in South Ossetia since the conflict broke out last week. Aid agencies estimate that more than 100,000 people have been displaced by the fighting and Russian occupation of the Georgian city of Gori.

Russian forces continued to man checkpoints on the main road out of Gori today, the nearest just 25 miles from Georgia's capital Tbilisi. Foreign Secretary David Miliband, visiting Tbilisi, accused Russia of "not living up to its word" in pledging to withdraw troops.

Mr Medvedev has now said that all but 500 soldiers would be pulled out of Georgia by Friday, though Russia has insisted that it will continue to patrol a buffer zone of Georgian territory seven kilometres beyond the border of South Ossetia.

The deputy head of general staff, Colonel General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, told reporters in Moscow that 64 Russian soldiers had died and 323 had been wounded in the fighting with Georgia. Russia had previously declared that it lost 74 soldiers, with 170 wounded.

Abkhazia stretches along 137 miles of stunning Black Sea coastline as the western fragment of Georgia's border with Russia, backing onto the Caucasus mountains in a total area of just over 3,000 square miles. The Russian ruble, not the Georgian Lari, already circulates there and many Abkhazians stream across the border each day to seek work on construction projects in the nearby resort of Sochi, which will host the 2014 Winter Olympics.

Abkhazia was a Russian protectorate from 1810 until the Red Army incorporated the Caucasus into the Soviet Union after the Bolshevik revolution. Joseph Stalin merged Abkhazia into Georgia in 1931, although it enjoyed a degree of autonomy within the unified Soviet republic.

When Georgia declared independence in 1991 as the Soviet Union was collapsing, Abkhazia sought to break free from Georgia to establish its own state. Georgian forces were driven out, but the region has remained unrecognised since a ceasefire in 1993.

From http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4572733.ece

[Armanen]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

And another important development!


Javakhk Armenians Call for Autonomy


AKHALKALAK, Gerogia (A-Info)--Armenian non-governmental organizations working in Georgia's Armenian-populated Samtskhe-Javakheti and Kvemo Kartili regions issued a joint announcement calling for the formation of a federative Georgian republic, with great autonomies granted to its ethnic populated districts, including the Armenians of Javakhk.

Citing the end to the military operations and the efforts by the sides to the conflict and the international community to find solutions to addressing this problem, as well as the fact that resolving ethnic conflicts militarily only jeopardize the security of the population, the Armenian organizational collective issued a six-point announcement calling for autonomy for Javakhk Armenians. Below are the points:


In order to guarantee the country's stability and democratic development, and to re-establish Georgia's territorial integrity and statehood, as well as to resolve ethnic conflicts in a objective, just and legal manner, Georgia's government should become a federative state, with regional and federal government structures;


Under the federative system of government, the central authorities of Georgia will retain the powers provided under Article 3 Section of the Georgian Constitution [Eds: Article 3 mandates the government to oversee issues of national interest, including foreign policy, defense, national and social security and economy];


The basis for the creation of regional bodies should include the preservation and advancement of ethnic identity of groups comprising Georgia's population.


Provide Samtskhe-Javakheti--with its current boundaries--and the neighboring mainly Armenian-populated region of Kvemo-Kartali autonomy within a federate state of Georgia, ensuring it with broad self-governing rights, including the right to free elections to the population for local governing bodies,


Through constitutional amendments, guarantee that Armenian will be the official language of Samtskhe-Javakheti, in addition to the current official state language;


Guarantee the representation of Samtskhe-Javakheti in the legislative, executive and judicial branches of the government.

The Armenian organizational collective emphasized that this aforementioned proposal would be the best manner through which to emerge from the current crisis, adding that government of Georgia should, at the very least, listen to its peaceful population and provide them with the same opportunities that it is providing to those citizens who “raised their weapons against the government.”

The organizations said that the impetus for this announcement was, first and foremost, the interests of Georgia and Samtskhe-Javakheti, which is part and parcel of the country.

http://www.asbarez.com/index.html?showarticle=34208_8/19/2008_1#AMC=Open&ASBSC=Open

[crusader1492]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

And another important development!


Javakhk Armenians Call for Autonomy


AKHALKALAK, Gerogia (A-Info)--Armenian non-governmental organizations working in Georgia's Armenian-populated Samtskhe-Javakheti and Kvemo Kartili regions issued a joint announcement calling for the formation of a federative Georgian republic, with great autonomies granted to its ethnic populated districts, including the Armenians of Javakhk.

Citing the end to the military operations and the efforts by the sides to the conflict and the international community to find solutions to addressing this problem, as well as the fact that resolving ethnic conflicts militarily only jeopardize the security of the population, the Armenian organizational collective issued a six-point announcement calling for autonomy for Javakhk Armenians. Below are the points:


In order to guarantee the country's stability and democratic development, and to re-establish Georgia's territorial integrity and statehood, as well as to resolve ethnic conflicts in a objective, just and legal manner, Georgia's government should become a federative state, with regional and federal government structures;


Under the federative system of government, the central authorities of Georgia will retain the powers provided under Article 3 Section of the Georgian Constitution [Eds: Article 3 mandates the government to oversee issues of national interest, including foreign policy, defense, national and social security and economy];


The basis for the creation of regional bodies should include the preservation and advancement of ethnic identity of groups comprising Georgia's population.


Provide Samtskhe-Javakheti--with its current boundaries--and the neighboring mainly Armenian-populated region of Kvemo-Kartali autonomy within a federate state of Georgia, ensuring it with broad self-governing rights, including the right to free elections to the population for local governing bodies,


Through constitutional amendments, guarantee that Armenian will be the official language of Samtskhe-Javakheti, in addition to the current official state language;


Guarantee the representation of Samtskhe-Javakheti in the legislative, executive and judicial branches of the government.

The Armenian organizational collective emphasized that this aforementioned proposal would be the best manner through which to emerge from the current crisis, adding that government of Georgia should, at the very least, listen to its peaceful population and provide them with the same opportunities that it is providing to those citizens who “raised their weapons against the government.”

The organizations said that the impetus for this announcement was, first and foremost, the interests of Georgia and Samtskhe-Javakheti, which is part and parcel of the country.


http://www.asbarez.com/index.html?sh...pen&ASBSC=Open

I read this last night and posted it in the "Armenian News" thread (which promptly got covered up by another insigninficant PepsiAddict post ) and asked if anyone knew what the implications of this announcement is...does it have any teeth?