Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

MORE GREAT NEWS. RUSSIANS ADVANCING ON GORI

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/11/wo...5b8c72&ei=5087

Maybe Russia really wants to have a border with Armenia

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

BTW lsel em te karq meh hayer gnacel en Haravayin Osiayum Hayastanits vorbesi paykarin Vrastani dem.

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Looks like Armenia is being used as an evacuation point for foreigners. Does anyone have any idea if Armenians are being evacuated to Armenia and is Armenia accepting Georgian refugees?

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Foreigners flee Georgia

ITALY and Poland today led the evacuation of hundreds of foreign nationals caught up in the Russia-Georgia conflict, while two airlines suspended flights to Georgia.

About 130 of the 200 Italian nationals known to be in Georgia left by bus today for the Armenian capital Yerevan, an Italian foreign ministry spokesman said.

Poland has sent a government plane to Yerevan to collect around 180 evacuees waiting there after completing a 260km crossing by coach from the Polish embassy in Georgia's capital, Tbilisi.

Most are Poles or people of Polish origin, although that figure includes an unspecified number of Czech Republic and Estonian nationals, a consular official said.

Britain's Foreign Office has urged its nationals in Georgia on non-urgent business to "leave as soon as possible", advice echoed by Canada.

"The situation is volatile and could deteriorate without notice," Canada's foreign ministry warned and told nationals that the US embassy is organising an evacuation convoy from Tbilisi to Yerevan tomorrow.

The US State Department issued a travel advisory yesterday to discourage Americans from visiting Georgia or its rebel territories of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Germany advised its citizens in Georgia to leave the country by travelling overland to Armenia or Turkey. A group of Spanish tourists were also evacuated through Armenia, a Spanish diplomatic source said.

Turkish officials said they were in discussions with neighbouring Azerbaijan should they decide evacuations are necessary, the Anatolia news agency reported.

France along with Spain, Sweden and Greece have also not made any decisions on immediate evacuations as they monitor the crisis.

Russian forces took control of South Ossetia today although Moscow claimed Georgian troops were still fighting in the breakaway enclave. Georgia said it had withdrawn most of its troops from South Ossetia in the face of mounting Russian firepower.

The French foreign ministry advised its nationals currently in Georgia "to remain in their homes and maintain contact with France's embassy".

French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner left today on a mission to mediate between Tbilisi and Moscow on behalf of the European Union, as France currently holds the EU presidency.

Turkish Airlines and Austrian Airways today suspended flights in and out of Tbilisi for security reasons.

The Turkish airline said flights to Batumi, in southwest Georgia near the border with Turkey, have been re-routed to Trabzon, a Turkish city on the Black Sea coast. A coach service will take passengers from Trabzon if required, it said.

From http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sto...012749,00.html

[Azad]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

With the amount or armaments being sent to the front ... this is not a short term defense. Georgia will never be the same.

[RSNATION]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

MORE GREAT NEWS. RUSSIANS ADVANCING ON GORI

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/11/world/europe/11georgia.html?bl&ex=1218513600&en=21280383fa5b8c72&ei=5087

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Russian news agencies report sunken Georgian ship

TBILISI, Georgia - Russian news agencies say the Defense Ministry is claiming to have sunk a Georgian missile boat that was trying to attack Russian navy ships in the Black Sea.

Russia's Defense Ministry refused to comment on the Sunday reports to The Associated Press and Georgian officials could not immediately be reached.

If confirmed, the incident could mark a serious escalation of the fighting between Russia and Georgia over the separatist Georgian province of South Ossetia.

"Georgian missile patrol boats today made two attempts to attack Russian military ships. The Russian ships opened fire in response and as a result, one of the Georgian ships carrying out the attack was sunk," the ITAR-Tass news agency quoted a ministry spokesman as saying.

More here http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/georgia_south_ossetia

[RSNATION]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

I'm Armenian and even I want to see him executed - I don't know about the rest of you. He's a coward and a traitor and betrayed his own people just to pacify the West and advance his political career.

I agree. He has humiliated Georgia. Although the Georgians are angry at Russia and will be for a while, they are going to turn on him like never before.

[RSNATION]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

http://www.belgraviadispatch.com/2008/08/georgia_on_my_mind.html

By: Gregory Djerejian

GEORGIA ON MY MIND

The commentary being churned out in the Western press regarding Georgia is rather pitiable in the main (most notably this dreary WaPo piffle, stinking of knee-jerk group-think as it does from beginning to end). A few quick points, in no particular order. First, let us disabuse ourselves from the notion that Mr. Saakashvili is some glorious democrat (the election he barely won in January included irregularities, and there continues to be endemic corruption in Tblisi). Second, let us recall that many south Ossetians and Abkhazians are not particularly keen to live under Tbilisi's yoke, indeed some prefer Russian influence to predominate there for the time being. Third, if there is any truth to Russian allegations that there are some 1,500 fatalities in the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali--and they were caused by a major initial over-reach by the Georgian military (we will need to wait for more details to emerge)--expect many more brutish bombardments like the Russians apparently have conducted in the Georgian town of Gori, alas. Fourth, some context: ever since the overly hasty recognition of Kosovo went live, Putin has been very keen to intimate what's good for the goose is good for the gander, having personally threatened Saakashvili that Russia would formally recognize as independent states Ossetia and Abkhazia. Unfair and inconvenient, at least to Georgian 'sovereignists' (or, to others, irrendentists)? Yes, to a fashion, as the perils of too breezy analogizing among these different situations is quite clear. Still, the Kosovo precedent was going to be used to Putin's purposes, of course, humiliating as the events in Pristina were to Moscow, and with the barely concealed breezy cheerleading from Brussels and DC adding insult to injury.

Which brings me to a fifth point, and perhaps a more fundamental causal factor contributing to this explosion of misfortune in Georgia, namely, that of stupidity, or at least, severe miscalculation. Saakashvili, an apparently quite idealistic 40 year-old former NY lawyer, seems to have erred too much in thinking that giddy summitry with Western big-wigs might pay dividends (or too his far too excited involvement in the Iraq adventure which, incidentally, looks to be coming to a quite precipitous end) but unfortunately, insufficiently appreciated the disastrous waning in U.S. power these past years, despite his constant hankering for NATO membership (which a resurgent Russia will never accept regardless of Kosovo or whatever else, best I can tell), and thus has fallen short with regard to better appreciating a variable which would have been more apropos, namely, a harsh dose of realpolitik. And this despite Putin having warned Saakashvili rather pointedly: "On April 21, Mr. Saakashvili called the Russian leader to demand that he reverse the decision [possible Russian recognition of Abkhazia and South Ossetia]. He reminded Mr. Putin that the West had taken Georgia’s side in the dispute. And Mr. Putin, according to several of Mr. Saakashvili’s associates, shot back with a suggestion about where they could put their statements. Mr. Saakashvili, prudent for once, shied from uttering the exact wording, but said that Mr. Putin had used “extremely offensive language,” and had repeated the expression several times." Permit me to be less prudent than Mr. Saakashvili, who appears perhaps to be a poor prioritizer of where to be prudent and where not. Mr. Putin told him that he could (and excuse the crudity) stick American and Western European assurances regarding the territorial disputes in question up his rear end, I suspect, and I'm afraid that's not a too inaccurate assessment, if a bit biting and brusque (save if McCain trumps Obama and decides to ride the NATO cavalry up from Kabul to Tbilisi a few months hence--perhaps on the back of some more WaPo interventionist rhapsodizing--devoid of the merest smidgen of appreciation for historical context and subtlety, leading to another toweringly idiotic 'Washington consensus' of some sort).

What's needed now, rather critically, is rather a large dose of humble pie by Mr. Saakashvili (let Solana visit him to hand-hold some, and perhaps then send our own Condi-the-Great too, as face-saver, if she's not too busy showcasing our incompetence elsewhere), with an understanding that the main objective is an immediate cease-fire with the goal of returning to the status quo ante, which is to say, de facto Russian control of the provinces in question. We could do far worse (indeed Putin may be minded to just have them go ahead and declare their independence under Russian control, or simply annex them), and bloviating about the death of the Rose Revolution in far-flung Abkhazia and Ossetia, while doubtless fun xxxxtail chit-chat among the grandees of our favorite editorial pages, well, Putin might have an idea or two where to put such talk, and it won't save any lives at this urgent juncture either. Put differently, let's stop our fanciful reverie from points removed (and where the ramifications don't include rampant lost of life, say) in favor of trying to dampen back a bloodbath that is looming today in the Caucasus, especially should Saakashvili delude himself some quasi-cavalry might be in the offing, and push back on the Russians even harder. For there is no cavalry coming, save if cavalry can be construed as 'we must respect Georgian sovereignty' soundbites that will blanket around clueless anchors striving mightily to pose intelligible questions on the cable news circuit that might be overheard at the Tbilisi Marriott.

Last, and somewhat tangential, interesting to note in passing (though highly unsurprising) that when we are are not speaking of a hiccup in financial regulatory issues in Moscow or such (where Medvedev was taking to flexing some muscle), it is Putin who leaves Beijing for the staging ground of the operation, not Medvedev. All the more reason for Saakashvili to be concerned...

NB: Larison is on top of this as well, just keep scrolling over there--but this post might be a good starting point--as it's particularly cogent (especially his contention that "Kissinger and Cohen are right", with which I mostly concur, and helpfully saves me the trouble too of having to write about yet another Kagan).

[yerazhishda]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Saakhasvili, you done screwed up son.

I'm Armenian and even I want to see him executed - I don't know about the rest of you. He's a coward and a traitor and betrayed his own people just to pacify the West and advance his political career.

[yerazhishda]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-T_Z...=1&sa=N&tab=wn

McCain (what an ass!) sounding more idiotic than Bush.

South Ossetia is a part of "sovereign" Georgia but Kosovo was not a part of "sovereign" Serbia? Why do I get the feeling that if he gets elected we'll be begging for Bush back?