(NWO) New World Order

[hrai]

Re: (NWO) New World Order

When a system is backed by the largest military force in the world, people have no choice but to accept it. North Korea, Albania, Cuba, etc... are all symptoms of oppression from greater powers. It's not their system that makes them unsuccessful. Success also means different things to different people. How many countries tied to Capitalism are TRULY independent?

I doubt any Capitalist countries are TRULY independent, far from it. But you posted "successful" Communist countries? Which are they?

BTW, I'm actually a Socialist......

[KanadaHye]

Re: (NWO) New World Order

I doubt any Capitalist countries are TRULY independent, far from it. But you posted "successful" Communist countries? Which are they?

BTW, I'm actually a Socialist......

I'm not really sure what I am. I believe hard work should be rewarded. However, I also believe everyone whether rich or poor should be entitled to a decent education and healthcare. Canada was heading in the right direction at one point....

[Mizzike]

Re: (NWO) New World Order

I'm not really sure what I am. I believe hard work should be rewarded. However, I also believe everyone whether rich or poor should be entitled to a decent education and healthcare. Canada was heading in the right direction at one point....

I guess you'd be what they'd define as a "social capitalist", similar to what they have in much of Europe.

[hipeter924]

Re: (NWO) New World Order

Why do you think I hate the church? Amnesty International? HRC? Did I say that? NO!
I actually attend church regularly (weekly) I admire Amnesty, HRC is very necessary.
What I do dislike is people reading, not digesting but making their own assumptions.

Governments tax/regulate.......companies lobby those governments for their own ends. Companies re-locate from countries which don't respond to their lobbying, companies pay taxes in the most preferential country for them. How many CEOs have the loyalty of their company? Ultimately.....not many, if any!
Governments actually regulate and set different taxes in response to business, not the other way.

Again, you make an assumption, incorrectly. I mentioned large corporations in the context of the thread and smaller societies. Duh.
Small compact companies would be a very nice way forward, unfortunately, many of the products and processes we take for granted today, need mass labour and/or mass investment.

This point is quite unnecessary and quite unnecessarily tries to be offensive.

Once more : aka = also known as (usually used for personal aliases), I think you use it mistakenly instead of : e.g. = for example.

Please re-arrange this sentence :

Stones, houses, people, throw, in, glass, shouldn't.

1. That still fails to answer the question. Why do we need police to instil social order? Why can't be rely on moral groups and free will. Which would gain greater acceptance than a policeman telling you can't do things...because if you believe in something you are less likely to work against it.

2. Actually no. Government imposed regulation. I think its bizarre that you could even suggest corporations develop regulation and tax...they don't...unless you are living in state capitalism like Singapore or China. As for CEO's they have to have some loyalty from the company or they wouldn't be a CEO (head of the company), duh!

3. Wrong there as well. Tons of psychological studies have been done showing that individuals are more productive than groups. As for mass production and investment...who is to say a person can't just sell their stage of the production to someone else?

4. Your last point doesn't make sense. Will leave it at that. We have modern economics, medieval economics, and so forth.

[hrai]

Re: (NWO) New World Order

1. That still fails to answer the question. Why do we need police to instil social order? Why can't be rely on moral groups and free will. Which would gain greater acceptance than a policeman telling you can't do things...because if you believe in something you are less likely to work against it.

Didn't see a question, but unfortunately history tells us that all people aren't the idealistic moral-driven groups we'd all like to live with.

2. Actually no. Government imposed regulation. I think its bizarre that you could even suggest corporations develop regulation and tax...they don't...unless you are living in state capitalism like Singapore or China. As for CEO's they have to have some loyalty from the company or they wouldn't be a CEO (head of the company), duh!

Example, I know, very well, a VP for a US multi-national who are considering closing some Scandinavian plants purely for reasons of tax and regulations. Why do you think governments offer tax-breaks to attract investment? A CEO is still an employee, I have a certain amount of loyalty from my employer so does the janitor, but it's not infinite even for the CEO.

3. Wrong there as well. Tons of psychological studies have been done showing that individuals are more productive than groups. As for mass production and investment...who is to say a person can't just sell their stage of the production to someone else?

Productivity of individuals as opposed to groups is not my point. Scale of production is and some products and raw materials need an awful lot of labor and investment. For example look at mineral industries or construction materials.

[hipeter924]

Re: (NWO) New World Order

Didn't see a question, but unfortunately history tells us that all people aren't the idealistic moral-driven groups we'd all like to live with.

Example, I know, very well, a VP for a US multi-national who are considering closing some Scandinavian plants purely for reasons of tax and regulations. Why do you think governments offer tax-breaks to attract investment? A CEO is still an employee, I have a certain amount of loyalty from my employer so does the janitor, but it's not infinite even for the CEO.

Productivity of individuals as opposed to groups is not my point. Scale of production is and some products and raw materials need an awful lot of labor and investment. For example look at mineral industries or construction materials.

1. Excuse me? Are you blind or something? I quite bluntly said earlier moral groups include Amnesty International, the Human Rights commission, and so forth, not just religious groups but rational people who follow agreements such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. A huge number if not most people agree with these groups.

As for idealism (dictionary.com):

i⋅de⋅al⋅ist
   /aɪˈdiəlɪst/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ahy-dee-uh-list] Show IPA
–noun
1. a person who cherishes or pursues high or noble principles, purposes, goals, etc.
2. a visionary or impractical person.
3. a person who represents things as they might or should be rather than as they are.
4. a writer or artist who treats subjects imaginatively.
5. a person who accepts the doctrines of idealism.

So you don't believe that we should have a world run by noble principles, purposes and goals? Then you must be a very lacking mind.

2. You proved my point...they are closing down because of tax and regulations. They don't like them...

They offer tax breaks for investment because they want to stimulate economic growth...if that means tax breaks for companies they will do it, also the governments have to stay competitive with other governments.

CEO loyalty doesn't have to be infinite...just the majority of the board has to support him.

3. Actually it is your point. You are claiming that individuals alone won't have enough resources and labour to do tasks. This I agree with you. But you failed to understand my point still.

1. Person A plants some trees
2. Person B transports all these logs and so forth
3. Person C processes the logs
4. People (furniture makers) use the processed timbers

So we have this dilemma. How can they get the equipment to make furniture and process and transport it without being a massive corporation with tons of money?

Well quite simple actually. Person A, Person B and Person C find investment from all the people who want furniture to be made. This is not a corporation being formed this is millions of companies contracting out for furniture. So all you are doing is getting money from millions of small businesses who independently of each other want furniture as opposed to a big corporate group.

As for labour itself. There is such a thing as a production line. Person A gives something to Person B which gives something to person C, and Person D transports it all. These people can work independently and sell their stage of production to each other. For example:

Person A makes object and sells it to Person B
Person B makes addition to object and sells it to Person C
Person C paints the object and sells it to Person E who wants to use the object.
Person D is paid by all three people to transport the object from Person A to B to C to E

Simple.

[hrai]

Re: (NWO) New World Order

1. Excuse me? Are you blind or something? I quite bluntly said earlier moral groups include Amnesty International, the Human Rights commission, and so forth, not just religious groups but rational people who follow agreements such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. A huge number if not most people agree with these groups.

But what of those who don't, (I do agree with them by the way)

So you don't believe that we should have a world run by noble principles, purposes and goals? Then you must be a very lacking mind.

Read my post here, my view is that unfortunately, a world run on noble principles, purposes & goals is practically a non-starter because of individuals/groups who would see such a society as a cow to be milked.
We're singing from the same songsheet here, I'm simply pointing out the probable weaknesses in such a society.

2. You proved my point...they are closing down because of tax and regulations. They don't like them...

Actually they're negotiating tax breaks.

They offer tax breaks for investment because they want to stimulate economic growth...if that means tax breaks for companies they will do it, also the governments have to stay competitive with other governments.

You mean governments sometimes act like, like, hell, like companies!!??

[QUOTE
3. Actually it is your point. You are claiming that individuals alone won't have enough resources and labour to do tasks. This I agree with you. But you failed to understand my point still.

1. Person A plants some trees
2. Person B transports all these logs and so forth
3. Person C processes the logs
4. People (furniture makers) use the processed timbers

[/QUOTE]
So, local small-scale manufacturers, okay.
small scale production and processes.
slow transportation (No cars/trucks/ships/planes)
Nice, cottages industries........I like them, use them when I can.

So we have this dilemma. How can they get the equipment to make furniture and process and transport it without being a massive corporation with tons of money?

Well quite simple actually. Person A, Person B and Person C find investment from all the people who want furniture to be made. This is not a corporation being formed this is millions of companies contracting out for furniture. So all you are doing is getting money from millions of small businesses who independently of each other want furniture as opposed to a big corporate group.

As for labour itself. There is such a thing as a production line. Person A gives something to Person B which gives something to person C, and Person D transports it all. These people can work independently and sell their stage of production to each other. For example:

Person A makes object and sells it to Person B
Person B makes addition to object and sells it to Person C
Person C paints the object and sells it to Person E who wants to use the object.
Person D is paid by all three people to transport the object from Person A to B to C to E

Simple.

The system is simple as you explain it, but what about the fabric required which you touch upon........money, so we'll need banks, mints and exchanges for currency. These are 'non-producing' groups so they need to turn a profit on the loans they made to the end users who upfronted the costs of the furniture. The more profit they make, they can increase by expanding and, and and, hey ,look there's Wall Street.
We can look at transport also, the transport company will eventually look at ways of transporting the largest, most profitable cargo, mmm, trucks are needed, steel, gasoline,rubber, asphalt, glass,etc.
What's the smallest steel rolling mill that could profitably run? How are the raw materials sourced and mined?

[hrai]

Re: (NWO) New World Order

Didn't see a question, but unfortunately history tells us that all people aren't the idealistic moral-driven groups we'd all like to live with.

Hipeter, check the bold.

[KanadaHye]

Re: (NWO) New World Order

Didn't see a question, but unfortunately history tells us that all people aren't the idealistic moral-driven groups we'd all like to live with.

So I guess the police, government and all those who are given authority over the majority are the idealistic moral-driven groups we'd all like to live with . What we are trying to say is if we were living in TRUE democracies, the people would have power over the government, not vice versa. In order for people to have power, they would have to have the ability to determine their own future and not be led through life dragged by corporate and government decisions.

[hrai]

Re: (NWO) New World Order

So I guess the police, government and all those who are given authority over the majority are the idealistic moral-driven groups we'd all like to live with . What we are trying to say is if we were living in TRUE democracies, the people would have power over the government, not vice versa. In order for people to have power, they would have to have the ability to determine their own future and not be led through life dragged by corporate and government decisions.

Trouble is that politics became an industry for the pigs with their snouts in the trough and not a vocation.