Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

[Artashes]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Also--- turky will not be giving land to Armenia, they will be returning Armenian lands to Armenia that were
obtained by murdering the inhabitants and stealing their lands.
Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Armenia has two wings. Each wing has a name. The name of one wing is: Those that remain.
The name of the other wing is: Diaspora.
It is difficult to fly with one wing.
When the other wing returns HOME --- it's over
Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

So, what do you suggest as the solution ? You want relations to be normalised only if Turkey gives land to Armenia ?

Acknowledgment of the genocide might (and maybe should) bring about compensation but borders shouldn't/cannot change. I think you are adopting a very nationalist line.

This comment is completely wrong. It should read:acknowledgment of the GENOCIDE absolutely bring compensation (not maybe).
Your next comment(but borders shouldn't/cannot change) is completely wrong.
It should read:those false borders can and will change.
Your accusation of nationalism at large is both wrong and a diversionary tactic from the truth.
It was not nationalism et al that was and is responsible for the Armenian genocide but exclusively Turkish
Nationalism.
The changing of the name of a city that has a longer recorded history than the word Turk , that has been changed in recent times was done not by any nationalist but exclusively Turkish nationalists for Turkish national interests.
To bring all nationalist into the conversation of the AG is a diversionary tactic to draw attention away from the exclusive responsibility and culpability of Turks.
I'm still waiting fo how you became "more sensitive" reply.
I have a great deal more to say but little time now.
Artashes

[Mos]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

That's racist.

You can label it what you want, I just don't want Turks or Kurds in my country. Last time we were in same country with them, they massacred us.

So, what do you suggest as the solution ? You want relations to be normalised only if Turkey gives land to Armenia ?

Acknowledgment of the genocide might (and maybe should) bring about compensation but borders shouldn't/cannot change. I think you are adopting a very nationalist line.

Well a start will be a full apology by the Turkish state including financial compensation like Germany did. I would like to see the Turkish leaders bow their heads at Genocide Memorial in Yerevan. I think Land compensations can be negotiated afterwards. Of course what Turkey is doing in the first place is illegal, and there should be more international condemnation of that practice.

[Antifascist]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

I am curious as to why the Turkish government is against openning the border without any preconditions....you would think it would be to there advantage, even though it would be Armenian government that would get the most economic advantage at first, but geopolitically it would be to Turkey's advantage, would it not?

I can think of only a few reasons why they would choose not to but those are wild theories.

Nationalist madness is the reason.

[Antifascist]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Yeah I don't want Turks flooding Armenian either. I much rather Russian/Iranian businesses dominate Armenia rather than Turkish. If only Georgia mended relations with Russia, everything would be so much easier. If we had border with Russia, that would be heaven.



Because they don't want to anger nationalistic voices inside Turkey by angering Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan's main leverage on Armenia is the Turkish blockade. And I'm sure Azerbaijan gives something in return for Turky's policy in this matter.

That's racist.

[Antifascist]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Well actually Turkey's blockade/closure of border is an illegal act in accordance with international law. On top of that, their pre-conditions on open the border makes it impossible for any thing to be done. Plus in establish official ties with Turkey we would accept that Western Armenia is part of Turkey, when in fact there are repirations to be made in that regard, as the native Armenian populace of Western Armenia was illegally cleansed from their lands.

So, what do you suggest as the solution ? You want relations to be normalised only if Turkey gives land to Armenia ?

Acknowledgment of the genocide might (and maybe should) bring about compensation but borders shouldn't/cannot change. I think you are adopting a very nationalist line.

[Antifascist]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Cem,

Agree with most of your sentiments.

But as bad as the AKP are, it seems the CHP and the MHP (especially the MHP who are essentially akin the a Turkish Nazi party,) are potentially worse- the choice seems to be either pan-Islam (AKP) or pan-Turk (CHP, MHP). As stupid as the AKP is, they have done far more to promote equal rights of minorities since 2002 than all previous regimes combined. I certainly do not like/trust them but they appear to be the lesser of all evils in my opinion with regards to political parties/movements in Ankara.

I agree that keeping the border closed is shortsighted as much more can be accomplished with normal communication and trade. It is not Armenia with the preconditions but Turkey and Turkey keeps trying to change the format, goalposts, posturing, adding conditions, bullying, etc. Normal relations would build trust and magnanimity and benefit Turkey's "ethnic brethren", the Azeris. Thus far all attempts at normalcy have failed due to the aforementioned.

Furthermore, I'll never understand why Turkey refuses diplomatic relations with Armenia when even India and Pakistan have exchanged ambassadors/talk directly, how can anything be accomplished by behind the scenes diplomacy, small-scale cultural exchanges, communicating through third parties? My opinion isthat there really isn't a desire or political will for Turkey to help remedy the situation.

I agree fully with your comments.

[Mos]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Any agreement made would set the present border, surely that can't be in Armenia's interests?
If this border is opened Armenia would be flooded by turcs and the countries economy would go down the pan, have a look at Georgia.
Opening the border would be like putting a cat-flap on your kitchen door when you lived in the lion's den.

Yeah I don't want Turks flooding Armenian either. I much rather Russian/Iranian businesses dominate Armenia rather than Turkish. If only Georgia mended relations with Russia, everything would be so much easier. If we had border with Russia, that would be heaven.

I am curious as to why the Turkish government is against openning the border without any preconditions....you would think it would be to there advantage, even though it would be Armenian government that would get the most economic advantage at first, but geopolitically it would be to Turkey's advantage, would it not?

I can think of only a few reasons why they would choose not to but those are wild theories.

Because they don't want to anger nationalistic voices inside Turkey by angering Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan's main leverage on Armenia is the Turkish blockade. And I'm sure Azerbaijan gives something in return for Turky's policy in this matter.

[Eddo211]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

I am curious as to why the Turkish government is against openning the border without any preconditions....you would think it would be to there advantage, even though it would be Armenian government that would get the most economic advantage at first, but geopolitically it would be to Turkey's advantage, would it not?

I can think of only a few reasons why they would choose not to but those are wild theories.