Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

[londontsi]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

I am aware that Democratic Republic of Armenia had many issues.
Regardless, Democratic Republic of Armenia was a failed state.

Democratic Republic of Armenia was not a failed state.

On the contrary despite its massive difficulties it put up a fight to maintain its sovereignty.
It succumbed to invading forces much stronger than itself.

A failed state is when the state internally collapses has usually no external enemies, a good example is Somalia.
Internal rule of law and governing institutions stop functioning.
Despite that no other country is trying to conquer it.

[davidoga]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

This has to be one of the most ignorant sentences ever posted on this site.

You're right, I misspoke. I as referring to Satrapy Armenia and Antiquity Kingdom. I am aware that Democratic Republic of Armenia had many issues. Regardless, Democratic Republic of Armenia was a failed state. Your reference to it does not validate your argument whatsoever.

[davidoga]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

that is so ridiculous a statement to make.

I spoke of Africa/China and India/Britain as trading areas, not India/China............................are you confused here?

Yes.

Ararat & Ani would become tourist hotspots with the border open. I clearly no nothing about a mountain I saw from my bedroom window every morning.

Are you aware why "those areas are sparsely if at all populated"?

"Ask India how mutually beneficial the trade was with Britain in the British Empire." That is what you said. Don't try to BS me, at least not on a forum where I can pull up what you said. I never said anything about India/China relationship. You are the confused one.

Ok, if you have such plan, how would you go about addressing the problem that Western Armenia is Turk Muslim dominated?

I am fully aware that Ararat and Ani would become tourist spots. We should hope so! Bring in lots of money. But that is irrelevant. You accused me of wanting the tourist areas back, which is not the case. If that is all that Ararat and Ani mean to you, then so be it.

Of course I know. Those areas were Armenian populated until the genocides of the 19th and 20th centuries. What is your point?

[UrMistake]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Davidd ur posts are full of fail ,you should know more about armenia

[hrai]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Besides, first republic was in the early days when Armenians and Muslims had less problems.

This has to be one of the most ignorant sentences ever posted on this site.

[hrai]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Call it whatever you want.

I never said large, I said majority. Besides, first republic was in the early days when Armenians and Muslims had less problems. I don't know about you, but I would not be OK with the idea that my Homeland is Muslim-majority.

that is so ridiculous a statement to make.

I explained this earlier, but trade is by definition mutually beneficial. If it wasn't, then why would their be trade at all? India's relationship with China was different, because India was a colony (a continuation of the empire). As such, you don't trade with your own country, you take the things that you need.

I spoke of Africa/China and India/Britain as trading areas, not India/China............................are you confused here?

I acknowledge everyone's rights. But realistically speaking, what are you going to do? Tell all the Turks to leave? In your head, can you even picture how this whole process would unfold?

Yes.

You clearly know nothing about Armenia whatsoever if you refer to Ararat and Ani as tourist hotspots.

Ararat & Ani would become tourist hotspots with the border open. I clearly no nothing about a mountain I saw from my bedroom window every morning.

I'll take it as poor word choice, but if it's not then I won't bother explaining anyway. Regardless, my rationale is that we would not be dealing with the problem of self-determination (as those areas are sparsely if at all populated).

Are you aware why "those areas are sparsely if at all populated"?

[davidoga]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Denial of genocide is a stage of and continuation of that genocide. turcs and their brother baboons continued genocide in baku, sumgait etc. Our heroes in Artsakh helped stop this.

You obviously didn't read that I wrote " a large muslim population" and you obviously don't know the history of the first Armenian republic.

That is a ridiculous statement. Ask the african countires who trade with China, ask India how mutually beneficial the trade was with Britain in the British Empire.



Amazing that you consider the rights of the residents of this land in 2012 but seem to dismiss THE SAME RIGHTS for the residents and their descendants of 1915.

Reducing a claim for land reclamation to tourist hot-spots? There seems to be a desire to have Armenia as a sort of Theme Park, a destination on your must-do-list.

I suggest you research the history of your country.

Call it whatever you want.

I never said large, I said majority. Besides, first republic was in the early days when Armenians and Muslims had less problems. I don't know about you, but I would not be OK with the idea that my Homeland is Muslim-majority.

I explained this earlier, but trade is by definition mutually beneficial. If it wasn't, then why would their be trade at all? India's relationship with China was different, because India was a colony (a continuation of the empire). As such, you don't trade with your own country, you take the things that you need.

I acknowledge everyone's rights. But realistically speaking, what are you going to do? Tell all the Turks to leave? In your head, can you even picture how this whole process would unfold?

You clearly know nothing about Armenia whatsoever if you refer to Ararat and Ani as tourist hotspots. I'll take it as poor word choice, but if it's not then I won't bother explaining anyway. Regardless, my rationale is that we would not be dealing with the problem of self-determination (as those areas are sparsely if at all populated).

[hrai]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

I don't know who edited my post, but I'll respond anyway. There will be no continuation of genocide. That is a baseless accusation. You seem to be forgetting that the present-day Turks are at fault for DENYING genocide, not COMMITTING it.

Denial of genocide is a stage of and continuation of that genocide. turcs and their brother baboons continued genocide in baku, sumgait etc. Our heroes in Artsakh helped stop this.

Armenia (or at least independent Armenia) never had a Muslim majority population.

You obviously didn't read that I wrote " a large muslim population" and you obviously don't know the history of the first Armenian republic.

I don't understand what you mean by ruin. Trade is always mutually beneficial.

That is a ridiculous statement. Ask the african countires who trade with China, ask India how mutually beneficial the trade was with Britain in the British Empire.

Hrai, believe me, I would like that land as well. If we could magically replace all the Turks in Western Armenia with Armenians, we would do it. But we can't. Armenia cannot be in favor of self-determination in one area (Artsakh) but against it in another (Western Armenia). What are we going to say, that because those lands were historically Armenian the desires of the current day residents don't matter?

Amazing that you consider the rights of the residents of this land in 2012 but seem to dismiss THE SAME RIGHTS for the residents and their descendants of 1915.

It's a different story to ask for landmarks such as Ararat (and Little Ararat) and Ani. They are literally right on the border and are not populated. There will be no irridentism. This is where being friendly with Turkey comes in handy. If we can CONVINCE them that those areas have no significance to Turks (which shouldn't be difficult because nobody argues otherwise), they may be PERSUADED to return this land.

Reducing a claim for land reclamation to tourist hot-spots? There seems to be a desire to have Armenia as a sort of Theme Park, a destination on your must-do-list.

I suggest you research the history of your country.

[davidoga]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Two points --- trade is always mutually beneficial --- not so. The push for a global economy by (deep pockets) is actually for the benefit of deep pockets. Once an areas economy is dependent on that trade then they (deep pockets) have that area by the weblos. Many small communities in this world are resisting globalization for this reason. Am not saying all trade with others is bad. Am saying this push for globalization and the
zeals that are pushing it don't have the ordinary persons best interest at heart.
Second --- if one says the truth to another and that other feels antagonized that doed not mean the one who said the truth is antagonizing the other. That is the --- CON --- that the simi hominoid runs.
The heartless cons we are dealing with are not going to change.
We cannot forget who we are dealing with.
Those who are descended of the actual butchers that want to keep all that the butchers stole and defend the butchers by denial are as incideous as death.
Artashes

By definition, trade is mutually beneficial. Armenia will trade goods for which it has a lower opportunity (i.e. apricots) cost to produce, and Turkey will trade good for which it has a lower opportunity (i.e pistachios) cost to produce.

You and I are arguing the same thing in your next point. Armenia has always and will always push for the truth. What's different is the way that Turkey interprets this. Currently the, truth is ANTAGONISTIC because Turkey views Armenia as an enemy. This will change if the two countries make amends.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Artashes and Mos,

Your ideology is not much different from Grey Wolves of Turkey. Full of discrimination and just based on nationalist/ethnic brotherhood.

You are even against me, someone who always speaks out against Turkish nationalism. You are against me just because I am Turkish.

For extreme right-winger people like you 'Only Armenians can be real 'brothers' of Armenians'. Just like the extreme right-wing Grey Wolves who say 'Only Turks can be 'brothers' of Turks.'

Why do you live your life based on discrimination ? Sad.

I spoke clearly. Turkey should apologise and accept the genocide. Compensation can be discussed. But border change ? Don't be crazy. So, if you think like that, how far back to the past does the whole world have to go ? So many borders would have to change then !!! I am not saying this from a 'Turkish perspective'. I am saying this as a realist.

So difficult to talk to a nationalist....Turkish, Bulgarian, Armenian, English, Zambian or whatever.

You are actually not saying anything original in the above. So don't think you are in a minority amongst those who matter.

Maybe you are in a minority here - but who would want to be with the majority! The idiots, the bigots, the fanatics, the self delusionists - those comprise the majority. And that lot are probably only an illusionary majority because they can shout the loudest and make the most noise.