Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

[davidoga]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

@Artashes:

You are pretending that the current effort to recognize the Armenian Genocide is working. This is simply no the case, because if Turkey does not acknowledge then nothing else matters.

That is what I was trying to say all this time: That opening the border facilitates Genocide recognition. The current issue is not lack of evidence; the Turkish government is perfectly aware of the truth. It is a lack of motivation to acknowledge the truth. Nobody is forcing turkey to recognize the Genocide, so why should it?

They only way is through amicable terms. They will be able to see the truth more clearly once Armenia is no longer regarded as an enemy state.

[Artashes]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

The murdering lier then offers to share the highly desirable stolen weath with those outside you're family and then says to you that you should deal with him in a normal fashion and by doing this our difference of opinion on said "alleged murder can be addressed( sooner or later).
If this is done in my opinion we(Hay) are actually helping to legitimize the murderers position.
Also another story --- I the early days of electrical use in the USA everyone produced their own electricity. In my opinion the way the manipulators stole the sef sufficient ability from the individual was--- damn -- have go ---

The electrical grid. They then made universal use of electrical grid so cheap that every one jumped on the band wagon.
That stopped dead in its tracks the individual from progressing and refining and accumulating a technology and ability to manage their own affairs. After regular joe is hooked the electric prices skyrocket and ordinary person is excluded from pursuing self sufficiency(needs deep pockets/no options without big bucks). INCIDIOUS.
When you look at various economic lines of thought the basic ,pervasive fraud is not put into the model. In an equation if you leave out even one facto the equation comes out wrong.
I know I've struggled attempting to make these points. Do you see what I'm saying?
Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Yes I understand the economic benefit to be gained by opening the border. That is not the only way for economic stimulus but rather one(1) apparent way and a relatively easy and fast way. The benefit would be felt almost emmediatly by the "average" person but more benefit to the individual manipulator.
I have many problems and questions still. Not clear in my brain as I just woke up but here goes.
Someone murders a number of people in your family and their are many witnesses both inside and outside your family. The murderer denies the obvious --- have to go---

The murdering lier then offers to share the highly desirable stolen weath with those outside you're family and then says to you that you should deal with him in a normal fashion and by doing this our difference of opinion on said "alleged murder can be addressed( sooner or later).
If this is done in my opinion we(Hay) are actually helping to legitimize the murderers position.
Also another story --- I the early days of electrical use in the USA everyone produced their own electricity. In my opinion the way the manipulators stole the sef sufficient ability from the individual was--- damn -- have go ---

[Artashes]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Yes I understand the economic benefit to be gained by opening the border. That is not the only way for economic stimulus but rather one(1) apparent way and a relatively easy and fast way. The benefit would be felt almost emmediatly by the "average" person but more benefit to the individual manipulator.
I have many problems and questions still. Not clear in my brain as I just woke up but here goes.
Someone murders a number of people in your family and their are many witnesses both inside and outside your family. The murderer denies the obvious --- have to go---

[Haykakan]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

I did a research paper regarding the opening of borders between Turky and Armenia and economicaly speaking there is no doubt both sides would greatly benefit from trade with Armenia benefiting considerably more. Economics is important and you have to remember it is not Armenia that closed the border. Opening the border with Turky would bring many opportunities to armenian businesses and jobs to the armenian people but it is the turk that places unreasonable demands on opening the border-not us. The Armenian government and most of the people in Armenia want the border opened because they know it will improve the country and their lives. As is the case with many of the problems regarding the relationship between Armenia and Turky-it is Turky that caused the problem and continues to refuse to fix it. The two nations have a lot of problems with one another but a economic relationship may be the first step to adressing these problems as neighbors instead of enemies. Awareness of the Armenian issues is gaining ground in Turky today and a open border will facilitate it further and this i think is one of the reasons Turky refuses to open the border. Opening the border brings many opportunities for bothsides but particularly for Armenia. Sure there are things we need to watch out for so that we are not economicaly taken advantage of but there are tools we can use to avoid such problems as they arise. Opening of the border should be done in stages so that both sides can build trust on this issue and build on it. This would also minimize the potential for abuse. The tools are there and the will is also there on the armenian side but it is the turkish side that is not cooporating.

[hrai]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

I clearly no nothing about a mountain I saw from my window every morning ---
Man you are killing me. (big smile from last frontier)
Artashes

Big smile back, frontiersman !

Hope you're starting to beat the computer. (I ask my daughter for help on IT smart-phones etc. nearly every day)

[Artashes]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Not everything that can be counted counts
Not everything that counts can be counted
Albert Einstein

[Artashes]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

I clearly no nothing about a mountain I saw from my window every morning ---
Man you are killing me. (big smile from last frontier)
Artashes

[londontsi]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

I was not using the textbook definition.

Yes I know ... you were characterizing it inaccurately.

Democratic Republic of Armenia as a de jure independent state would be detrimental to Armenia in the long run.
Do you really think that the Turkish and Azeri enemies would have spared Armenia if it had not been for Soviet Union.

I cannot tell, probably not, specially if they found an good opportunity to pursue their Pan Turanism agenda.

My view is that the being part of the Soviet Union was a mixed bag.
Very bad to start with ( till Stalin's death ), somewhat better after that.

( This reminds me of the joke, “The good thing about being hit on the head with a hammer is that you start feeling good when it is stopped.)

In other words, its collapse was a good thing.

The Government collapsed ...... not the country ..... despite all its difficulties.

[davidoga]

Re: Do you think Turkey has become a regional Leader?

Democratic Republic of Armenia was not a failed state.

On the contrary despite its massive difficulties it put up a fight to maintain its sovereignty.
It succumbed to invading forces much stronger than itself.

A failed state is when the state internally collapses has usually no external enemies, a good example is Somalia.
Internal rule of law and governing institutions stop functioning.
Despite that no other country is trying to conquering it.

I was not using the textbook definition. Democratic Republic of Armenia as a de jure independent state would be detrimental to Armenia in the long run. Do you really think that the Turkish and Azeri enemies would have spared Armenia if it had not been for Soviet Union. In other words, its collapse was a good thing.