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Bubye and good riddance Don't Ask Don't Tell!

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  • #11
    Re: Bubye and good riddance Don't Ask Don't Tell!

    Yeah, it's not the most neutrally written (and I actually started to type that in the OP and removed it) because I thought it was obvious this is not from a news source.


    -----------

    More in the headlines today...



    Teenager struggled with bullying before taking his life

    Updated: September 20, 2011, 2:28 PM

    Jamey Rodemeyer needed help. At 14, he was grappling with adolescent demons that could torment grown men.

    And when he was online, he wrote about it.

    "I always say how bullied I am, but no one listens," he wrote Sept. 9. "What do I have to do so people will listen to me?"

    Just over one week later, Jamey was found dead outside his home of an apparent suicide.

    In the months prior, he routinely blogged about school bullying and thoughts of suicide in between upbeat posts about his pop star idol Lady Gaga and the ordinary types of teen rants typical for kids his age.

    On Sept. 8, he wrote: "No one in my school cares about preventing suicide, while you're the ones calling me [gay slur] and tearing me down."

    He put up a separate post that day letting everyone know it was National Suicide Prevention Week.

    Then he posted the lyrics to a song by Hollywood Undead:

    I just wanna say good bye, disappear with no one knowing

    I don't wanna live this lie, smiling to the world unknowing

    I dont want you to try, you've done enough to keep me going

    I'll be fine, I'll be fine, I'll be fine for the very last time

    On Saturday night, he posted a lyric from Lady Gaga's song "The Queen" on his Facebook page: "Don't forget me when I come crying to heaven's door."

    Then around 1:30 a.m. Sunday, Jamey posted two final messages to his main public Tumblr blog. One said he really wanted to see his great-grandmother, who had recently died, and one offered thanks to Lady Gaga.

    That was his last entry.

    "He touched so many hearts, so many people," said his mother, Tracy Rodemeyer, who met with some of his grief-stricken friends at Williamsville North on Monday. "I didn't realize how many people he touched. He was the sweetest, kindest kid you'd ever know. He would give all his heart to you before he gave any to himself."

    Olivia Rinaldo, an eighth-grader at Heim Middle School, said she was drawn to his outwardly upbeat and extroverted personality. He made friends of the friendless, she said.

    "He was always putting people first," she said. "He always wanted other people to smile, even on the worst of his days."

    Jamey did have bad days. Issues of bullying and even suicide talk were not new to many of Jamey's family or friends. They were common topics for him and seemed to ramp up to an extreme level when other students started making taunts with gay references to Jamey about 12 months ago on his Formspring account, which permits anonymous posts.

    "JAMIE IS STUPID, GAY, FAT ANND UGLY. HE MUST DIE!" read one post.

    Another read: "I wouldn't care if you died. No one would. So just do it It would make everyone WAY more happier!"

    Other posts were similar, but friends also came to his defense.

    "Don't listen to cowards on here Jamey," one friend responded.

    Another wrote: "Um. Jamey is amazing and it doesn't matter if someone's gay or not. Everyone loves Jamey, and if you don't then you obviously didn't take the time to get to know him."

    Rodemeyer said her son had questioned his sexuality for the last year or so, and some of his classmates used those issues as an excuse to say horrible and malicious things about him.

    Friends of his reported the message posts to the Heim Middle School guidance counselors, she said.

    Even before then, she said, Jamey was emotionally troubled.

    "He was totally against bullying," she said. "He has had issues since fifth grade. He had suicidal tendencies back then."

    He also had friends. Olivia said she thought even the male bullies at Heim Middle School became more accepting over time.

    But high school meant facing off against a new set of peers.

    "We sat him down multiple times and said, 'What's going on?'" his mother recalled.

    Jamey denied that anything was amiss, she said. In fact, when the family went to its usual camping spot this past weekend, Jamey seemed happy. Even taunts from peers didn't seem to phase him.

    "He used to cry about it, be sad and angry," Rodemeyer said. "But lately, he's been blowing them off, or at least we thought he was."

    Given Jamey's prolific writings and raw commentaries online, could someone have intervened sooner and saved him?

    "Of course, I'm not going to say enough was done," said Jamey's mother.

    But he was seeing a social worker and therapist, she said.

    Williamsville North Principal Petrina Neureuter sent a letter home with all students Monday informing them that Jamey had died. Members of the district's crisis team from both North High and Heim Middle School were also at the school.

    "We make it apparent to the kids that there's help all day long and in the days to come," said Dale Bauer, a licensed school social worker and clinical social worker at North.

    Jamey is the second Williamsville North High School student known to have committed suicide since 2010. Joe Chearmonte, a junior honor student, died in February of last year.

    When a new school year starts, Bauer said, the high school counseling staff meets with the middle school counselors from North's two feeder middle schools to discuss the needs of incoming ninth-graders.

    Counselors then make it a point to try to stay in touch with the kids who are considered to be at higher risk, she said.

    But There are limits to what a school can do, she said. Despite the extensive counseling staff at North, she said, no one routinely checks the online posts of troubled students.

    "We really encourage kids not to use those sites if they're having a hard time because it just aggravates the situation," she said.

    The school is not a mental health clinic, she said, though it has licensed counseling staff, offers some services and makes outside referrals.

    "The school can offer these services, but we can't force students to partake of them, and we're only one piece of the puzzle," she said. "It's really a question of us all working together."

    This year, Williamsville has partnered with other districts to offer a depression and suicide awareness program out of Williamsville South High. A panel presentation will be offered to all parents Oct. 25, she said.

    On a larger scale, adults worldwide have recognized the crisis facing adolescents and teenagers struggling with sexuality.

    Last September, the "It Gets Better Project" was launched online as a place for adults -- including high-profile celebrities -- to reassure troubled and potentially suicidal lesbian, gay and bisexual youth that despite the taunting, bullying and physical abuse they face as adolescents and teens, life improves after high school.

    In May of 2011, a fragile-sounding Jamey posted this YouTube video with the description "Jamey From Buffalo, New York telling you, IT GETS BETTER!" In it, he said that despite the bullying and messages of hate he's been subjected to, he's also gotten an outpouring of support from friends and strangers after he "came out."

    "Love yourself and you're set," he told viewers after chronicling his torment in school. "I promise you, it will get better."

    The It Gets Better Project has since grown by leaps and bounds since its inception. It offers numerous resources and a pledge that others can sign promising to "provide hope to lesbian, gay, bi, trans and other bullied teens." The homepage is itgetsbetter.org
    [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
    -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

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    • #12
      Re: Bubye and good riddance Don't Ask Don't Tell!

      So they are going to lie to teens and tell them life gets better? lmao... if you can't handle being bullied in your teen years, good luck making it in the real world.
      "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

      Comment


      • #13
        Re: Bubye and good riddance Don't Ask Don't Tell!

        Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
        So they are going to lie to teens and tell them life gets better? lmao... if you can't handle being bullied in your teen years, good luck making it in the real world.
        Aahh, how I loooove Armenian attitudes towards mental health~!

        Teens experience a whole gamut of social-emotional difficulties (regular stuff like issues with coping and transitions, as well as specific clinically relevant concerns such as mood disorders--depression, anxiety, etc., trauma related to bullying/violence/LGBT identity/etc... and in some cases, much worse than all that). And no, not all of them can "handle" it, nor should they have to handle it on their own. Believe it or not, this kid's story is, sadly, "typical" in many ways. Kids with "issues" are labeled and marginalized, even by the counselors and administrators--the very people who are these kids' only chance of getting any kind of "help" from the system... And then one day it's too late..(I've seen this happen time and again and will never work for the school district for this reason.) I'm not saying every kid out there is going to go suicidal on us, but the damage is done, no help is offered, the kid goes unidentified and untreated, and all of that sets him/her up for major impairments in functioning later on in life--the kind no one can afford in the "real world".

        Please don't be judgemental of these kids you guys. This stuff they're facing is real. And supremely destructive if left untreated.

        Comment


        • #14
          Re: Bubye and good riddance Don't Ask Don't Tell!

          Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
          I don't see anywhere about separation of church and state. All it says is that Congress shouldn't favour any single religion over another.
          That's why we have very appropriate grades in school for any student that tries to answer an exam question like that. Oh professor you never told us that A is equal to C. All you told us was that A is equal to B, and that B is equal to C, and that equality is transitive. .... ... D+ (I give them the + just to make them feel better).
          this post = teh win.

          Comment


          • #15
            Re: Bubye and good riddance Don't Ask Don't Tell!

            Originally posted by LadyLazarus View Post
            Aahh, how I loooove Armenian attitudes towards mental health~!
            Aren't you Armenian?

            Originally posted by LadyLazarus View Post

            Teens experience a whole gamut of social-emotional difficulties (regular stuff like issues with coping and transitions, as well as specific clinically relevant concerns such as mood disorders--depression, anxiety, etc., trauma related to bullying/violence/LGBT identity/etc... and in some cases, much worse than all that). And no, not all of them can "handle" it, nor should they have to handle it on their own. Believe it or not, this kid's story is, sadly, "typical" in many ways. Kids with "issues" are labeled and marginalized, even by the counselors and administrators--the very people who are these kids' only chance of getting any kind of "help" from the system... And then one day it's too late..(I've seen this happen time and again and will never work for the school district for this reason.) I'm not saying every kid out there is going to go suicidal on us, but the damage is done, no help is offered, the kid goes unidentified and untreated, and all of that sets him/her up for major impairments in functioning later on in life--the kind no one can afford in the "real world".

            Please don't be judgemental of these kids you guys. This stuff they're facing is real. And supremely destructive if left untreated.
            See, this is what I love about liberal views. If the other parents disciplined their kids every time they saw them treating another kid wrongly then after a couple "lessons" they'd learn how to behave and treat others. Once a kid in unruly and deviant, they will bully and pick on the weaker kids as they were never taught how to behave properly. The "issues" aren't with the person being bullied, it's with the "bullies". You know what they do nowadays? The counselors and administrators put kids on anti-depressants... that's right, they drug them up. Hey, let's not focus on a particular group either, kids get bullied for being fat, wearing glasses, having red hair, the list goes on and on.

            Originally posted by Sip View Post
            That's why we have very appropriate grades in school for any student that tries to answer an exam question like that. Oh professor you never told us that A is equal to C. All you told us was that A is equal to B, and that B is equal to C, and that equality is transitive. .... ... D+ (I give them the + just to make them feel better).
            What law, if any specifically says that you must be Christian in America? Or you must attend church on Sundays? Most of Congress is composed of lawyers with J3wish affiliations and the laws they pass are in their favour.

            I wonder if they care whether or not the soldiers that fight Israel's wars are straight or gay... hahahaha.
            Last edited by KanadaHye; 09-21-2011, 05:32 AM.
            "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

            Comment


            • #16
              Re: Bubye and good riddance Don't Ask Don't Tell!

              Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post

              See, this is what I love about liberal views. If the other parents disciplined their kids every time they saw them treating another kid wrongly then after a couple "lessons" they'd learn how to behave and treat others. Once a kid in unruly and deviant, they will bully and pick on the weaker kids as they were never taught how to behave properly. The "issues" aren't with the person being bullied, it's with the "bullies". You know what they do nowadays? The counselors and administrators put kids on anti-depressants... that's right, they drug them up. Hey, let's not focus on a particular group either, kids get bullied for being fat, wearing glasses, having red hair, the list goes on and on.
              Kids at this age also mimic their parents attitudes, but with their immature frontal lobes they lack executive control and empathy. So, where their parents might "have the decency" to spread their hate behind the backs of those their hating on, children don't do that. Further, when the parents' have failed to teach their children not to behave like scruple-less heathens, what do you propose happen? Should they be expelled from school if they can't behave? Should they just send home notes that their children are bullying another child and telling him to go kill himself?
              Where do you get this information that counselors and administrators put kids on anti-depressants? Making sh!t up again in typical Kanada-style? Playing fast and loose with "facts"? Counselors and administrators don't even have the ability to do that. Oops, small technicality right?
              [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
              -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

              Comment


              • #17
                Re: Bubye and good riddance Don't Ask Don't Tell!

                Here are a couple helpful Q & As from AU...

                Where is the “separation of church and state” in the Constitution?

                The First Amendment's religion clauses state: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….” The Establishment Clause forbids more than the establishment of a national religion; it also forbids laws or actions respecting an establishment of religion. As James Madison, Father of the Constitution, put it “The Constitution of the U.S. forbids everything like an establishment of a national religion.” In a January 1, 1802 letter, President Thomas Jefferson wrote of the intended relationship between religion and government: “I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.”

                The Establishment Clause sets up a line of demarcation between religion and government in our society, and the Supreme Court determines where the line is drawn to accommodate liberties in our ever-changing society. Although the exact language is absent, the Supreme Court has repeatedly determined that the Constitution does indeed call for separation between church and state.

                Jefferson's “wall of separation between church and state” was first noted by the Supreme Court in an 1878 opinion by Chief Justice Morrison Waite. Justice Hugo Black later reaffirmed the wall's significance in the landmark case Everson v. Board of Education (1947). Black wrote “In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect ‘a wall of separation between church and state.'” The wall forbids government to actually or effectively favor one religion over another, favor religion over non-religion and vice-versa. Requiring neutrality removes the authority of government from religious practice and protects each citizen's right to express his or her personal beliefs.
                What is a “law respecting an establishment of religion”?

                The Supreme Court has used a variety of methods to decide if a government action amounts to religious establishment. Unconstitutional actions typically lack a secular purpose or have the principal effect of advancing or inhibiting religion. Religiously motivated actions violate the basic idea that government should concern itself only with civil matters and leave religion to the individual's conscience. Expressive actions, such as prayer at government-sponsored events or religious symbols on government property, are invalid if they effectively endorse or disapprove of religion. Justice Sandra Day O'Connor designed the “endorsement test” to thwart government actions that link one's religion to his or her standing in the political community. In her words, government endorsement of religion sends a “message to non-adherents that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community," and the "accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community.”
                [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
                -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

                Comment


                • #18
                  Re: Bubye and good riddance Don't Ask Don't Tell!

                  Originally posted by Siggie View Post
                  Kids at this age also mimic their parents attitudes, but with their immature frontal lobes they lack executive control and empathy. So, where their parents might "have the decency" to spread their hate behind the backs of those their hating on, children don't do that. Further, when the parents' have failed to teach their children not to behave like scruple-less heathens, what do you propose happen? Should they be expelled from school if they can't behave? Should they just send home notes that their children are bullying another child and telling him to go kill himself?
                  Where do you get this information that counselors and administrators put kids on anti-depressants? Making sh!t up again in typical Kanada-style? Playing fast and loose with "facts"? Counselors and administrators don't even have the ability to do that. Oops, small technicality right?
                  You're officially a PITA. Counseling and anti-depressants are usually used together to cope with teenage depression. They shouldn't be expelled from school, they should be put in a "special" class. Make an example out of a few of them and see how quick others will learn. Most of these bullies come from broken homes anyways.... usually the trouble starts at home as they are not getting the attention and discipline they need.

                  I must have always had a mature frontal lobe
                  Last edited by KanadaHye; 09-21-2011, 07:03 AM.
                  "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

                  Comment


                  • #19
                    Re: Bubye and good riddance Don't Ask Don't Tell!

                    Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post


                    You're officially a PITA.
                    Thanks? You know you came back because you missed me.


                    Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
                    Counseling and anti-depressants are usually used together to cope with teenage depression. They shouldn't be expelled from school, they should be put in a "special" class. Make an example out of a few of them and see how quick others will learn. Most of these bullies come from broken homes anyways.... usually the trouble starts at home as they are not getting the attention and discipline they need.

                    I must have always had a mature frontal lobe
                    I meant that it is not within the power of administrators or school counselors to medicate children. I also don't see any rationale for putting bullies on anti-depressants. Where's the connection?

                    It's also a pretty common (and dangerous) mistake to think that bullies have low self-esteem, self-worth, or a need for more attention. In fact, research on bullies shows that they score higher than average on these measures.

                    I think it's really easy to cast blame, but there don't seem to be easy solutions that won't require changes in societal values and culture. Yes, it's the parents' fault usually... but then what? Assuming that's the case, what do we do about it?
                    What kind of special class could we put these bullies in? What is the purpose of these special classes? Who else will be in these classes? Will their curriculum differ from the "non-special" classes? If so, how will it be different?
                    [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
                    -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

                    Comment


                    • #20
                      Re: Bubye and good riddance Don't Ask Don't Tell!

                      Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
                      Aren't you Armenian?

                      See, this is what I love about liberal views. If the other parents disciplined their kids every time they saw them treating another kid wrongly then after a couple "lessons" they'd learn how to behave and treat others. Once a kid in unruly and deviant, they will bully and pick on the weaker kids as they were never taught how to behave properly. The "issues" aren't with the person being bullied, it's with the "bullies". You know what they do nowadays? The counselors and administrators put kids on anti-depressants... that's right, they drug them up. Hey, let's not focus on a particular group either, kids get bullied for being fat, wearing glasses, having red hair, the list goes on and on.

                      Yes, smartypants , I'm very Armenian. I'm also a very Armenian clinician whose specialization just happens to be school mental health. I think I'm pretty well aware of the finer points of family dynamics, causal factors to bullying, etc. ; all of that is really beyond the scope of what I was trying to say with my earlier post. Regardless how the kids with "issues" got to that point, all I was saying is let's not be judgemental towards them.

                      Peace.

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