Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Ukraine

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Ukraine

    Originally posted by Hakob View Post
    In lew of latest azeri statements of none confidence on US representative in minsk group, it is evident that baku is prepared for the flip flop, sensing that minsk group can be none existent in very near future. So no harm in fake actions creating impression that this group is still important and to confuse adversary more. US silence or mild reaction speaks volumes too.
    Baku knows, where true support for restarting the war will come.
    It is our job to see all clear and prepare.



    Did not have to wait too long. Here comes the proof of my words. US is and will allways favor turks and azeris. It will reignite Artsakh war to divert Russia's attention.


    James Warlick: 6 elements have to be part of peace agreement on Karabakh



    May 07, 2014 | 18:16
    OSCE Minsk Group Co-Chair James Warlick delivered a speech on Karabakh at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace on Wednesday, outlining U.S. position on the peace process.

    The text of the speech is as follows:

    “Distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen:

    Thank you for joining me this morning. I recognize a number of you who have served as counsel or sounding-board for me over the past eight months and I want to extend a special thanks to you.

    Let me start by saying that I do not want to revisit the history of the conflict. Our goal should be to find a pragmatic way forward to bring about a lasting settlement.

    Although I speak to you today as the U.S. co-chairman of the OSCE Minsk Group, I do not speak for the co-chairs. My message to you is a statement of official U.S. government policy that guides our engagement as we help the parties find peace.

    And peace is within reach. The sides have come to a point where their positions on the way forward are not that far apart. They have almost reached agreement on several occasions – most recently in 2011. And when they inevitably returned to the negotiating table after each failed round, the building blocks of the next “big idea” were similar to the last time.

    There is a body of principles, understandings, and documents already on the table that lay out a deal, and no one has suggested we abandon them. The challenge is to find a way to help the sides take that last, bold step forward to bridge their remaining differences and deliver the peace and stability that their populations deserve.
    For two decades, however, peace has been elusive. All parties distrust each other and a generation of young people has grown up in Armenia and Azerbaijan with no first-hand experience of each other. As many have noted, older generations remember a time when Armenians and Azerbaijanis lived side-by-side and differences did not need to be resolved through the barrel of a gun.

    As Churchill once reminded us, “you negotiate peace with your enemies, not with your friends.” The key to any successful negotiation is for all parties to conclude that they have won something, and in the case of the Armenians and Azerbaijanis there is no question that a deal will unlock a new era of prosperity across the region. The benefits of peace far outweigh the costs of continued stalemate, and avoid the catastrophic consequences of renewed hostilities.

    Armenia would immediately benefit from open borders, greater security, and new opportunities to trade, travel, and engage with all its neighbors.

    Azerbaijan would eliminate a key impediment to its growth as a player on the world stage, regional trade hub, and strong security partner, while giving hundreds of thousands of refugees and internally displaced persons a prospect for reconciliation and return.

    The thousands of people living in Nagorno-Karabakh would be freed from the prison of isolation and dependence.
    A peace agreement, properly designed and implemented, would also eliminate the tragic, steady stream of casualties – both military and civilian – along the border and the Line of Contact. Numbers are hard to pin down, but there have already been at least a dozen killed and even more injured on the front lines this year so far. This is unacceptable.
    No less significant is the huge financial burden that military readiness and a growing arms race imposes on national budgets – a peace dividend that, used more productively, could itself be a game changer for both Armenia and Azerbaijan.

    Next week will mark 20 years since a ceasefire agreement was signed. While we can take some pride in having avoided a return to outright war, we must also agree that the current state of affairs is unacceptable, and unsustainable.

    Perpetual negotiations, periodic outbreaks of violence, the isolation of Armenia and the people living in Nagorno-Karabakh, frustration in Azerbaijan and anger among its populations of IDPs – this is not a recipe for peace or stability and it is certainly not the path to prosperity.

    The people of the region deserve better.
    ----
    I began this job last September with a trip to the region, with visits to Baku and Yerevan to meet the two presidents and their foreign ministers. I also made a side trip to Nagorno-Karabakh to join Ambassador Andrzej Kasprzyk’s team for an OSCE monitoring mission along the Line of Contact on the road between Agdam and Gindarkh.
    I joined the team on the west side of the Line of Contact, and got my first glimpse of the front lines. I saw the bleak reality faced by young soldiers on both sides of this Line, who live and work behind trenches and berms, with nothing but barbed wire and land mines keeping them apart.

    The sides live under threat from sniper fire and landmines. They are concerned for the lives of their civilian populations and their access to farmland, cemeteries, and buildings that happen to fall “too close” to the Line of Contact or the international border between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

    OSCE monitors have been working for two decades to keep an eye on this fragile peace, but have neither the mandate nor the resources to put a stop to the frequent casualties, or even to identify responsibility.
    The sides themselves report thousands of ceasefire violations every year, but have been unable to reach agreement on any means of reducing that tally.

    I have also traveled throughout Nagorno-Karabakh itself, where I have met with the de facto authorities to hear their views. I plan to do so again next week with the other co-chairs. There is no question that any enduring peace agreement must reflect the views of all affected parties if it is to succeed.

    In the capitals, I have heard a more reassuring message. Both presidents want to make progress. Both agree that the series of documents negotiated over the past several years contains the outlines of a deal.

    The co-chairs hosted the presidents in Vienna last November. This was their first meeting since January 2012 – and the first time since 2009 for them to meet one-on-one. We were encouraged by their conversation, and by their stated commitment to find a way forward. Since that time, we have met on ten separate occasions with one or both foreign ministers to keep the discussion alive.

    It is clear, however, that only the presidents have the ability to conclude a deal with such transformative consequences for their countries. It is the presidents who must take the bold steps needed to make peace. The United States has pressed both leaders to meet again soon and take advantage of this window of opportunity when peace is possible.
    ----
    When I made that first trip to Baku and Yerevan last fall, I carried with me President Obama’s endorsement and reaffirmation of the U.S. commitment to working for peace as a Minsk Group co-chair and a close partner with both countries. The outlines of a compromise were already well established by that point, and my message was that the time had come for a renewed effort to bring peace to the region.

    Let me walk you through the key elements of that “well-established” compromise, all of which have been in the public domain since appearing in joint statements by Presidents Obama, Medvedev, and Sarkozy in L’Aquila in 2009 andMuskoka in 2010. These principles and elements form the basis of U.S. policy toward the Minsk Group and the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict.

    At the heart of a deal are the UN Charter and relevant documents and the core principles of the Helsinki Final Act. In particular, we focus on those principles and commitments that pertain to the non-use or threat of force, territorial integrity, and equal rights and self-determination of peoples.

    Building on that foundation, there are six elements that will have to be part of any peace agreement if it is to endure. While the sequencing and details of these elements remains the subject of negotiations, they must be seen as an integrated whole. Any attempt to select some elements over others will make it impossible to achieve a balanced solution.

    In no particular order, these elements are:

    First, in light of Nagorno-Karabakh’s complex history, the sides should commit to determining its final legal status through a mutually agreed and legally binding expression of will in the future. This is not optional. Interim status will be temporary.

    Second, the area within the boundaries of the former Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region that is not controlled by Baku should be granted an interim status that, at a minimum, provides guarantees for security and self-governance.

    Third, the occupied territories surrounding Nagorno-Karabakh should be returned to Azerbaijani control. There can be no settlement without respect for Azerbaijan’s sovereignty, and the recognition that its sovereignty over these territories must be restored.

    Fourth, there should be a corridor linking Armenia to Nagorno-Karabakh. It must be wide enough to provide secure passage, but it cannot encompass the whole of Lachin district.

    Fifth, an enduring settlement will have to recognize the right of all IDPs and refugees to return to their former places of residence.

    Sixth and finally, a settlement must include international security guarantees that would include a peacekeeping operation. There is no scenario in which peace can be assured without a well-designed peacekeeping operation that enjoys the confidence of all sides.
    ----
    The time has come for the sides to commit themselves to peace negotiations, building on the foundation of work done so far. It is not realistic to conclude that occasional meetings are sufficient by themselves to bring about a lasting peace.

    When such negotiations commence, the parties should not only reconfirm their commitment to the ceasefire but also undertake much-needed and long-sought security confidence-building measures.

    Once we get into such peace negotiations, there is a much broader range of practical issues that we can put on the table to benefit all sides. There are economic and commercial incentives to develop; energy, transportation, and communications links to rebuild; and travel and people-to-people programs that can begin to counter the dangerously one-sided narratives that currently prevail.

    The co-chairs of the Minsk Group share a common interest in helping the sides reach a peaceful resolution. We intend to continue working through the Minsk Group as the primary channel for resolving this conflict. Together with France, the United States and Russia share a common commitment to peace and security in Nagorno-Karabakh. The United States stands ready to help in any way we can. I would also call on the diaspora communities in the United States and around the world to speak out for peace and to help bring an end to this conflict.

    Of course, it is up to the governments of Armenia and Azerbaijan to take the first step. They should consider measures, even unilateral ones, that will demonstrate their stated commitment to making progress, reducing tensions, and improving the atmosphere for negotiations. They should reduce the hostile rhetoric, and prepare their populations for peace, not war.

    Track II efforts to build people-to-people contacts between Azerbaijanis and Armenians are no less integral to a lasting settlement. Programs of this kind can help citizens of both countries prepare for peace and find reconciliation with the pain of the past. We expect the sides to support organizations and individuals which are committed to Track II and people-to-people programs.

    I hope trhat you will work with us to make the case for a lasting peace. The co-chairs have the mandate to facilitate negotiations, but we should all be supporting engaged citizens, secular and religious leaders, NGOs, media outlets, and others working towad these goals. A lasting peace must be built not on a piece of paper, but on the trust, confidence, and participation of the people of both countries.

    Let’s work together to build the demand for peace. Let’s demand the benefits that a peaceful settlement will bring to people across the region.

    Thank you.”
    From News.Am

    P.S. The curtain came down afterall on US double game. It fully and one sidedly holds baku's point of view for resolution of conflict.
    One may ask, why this speach now? It is abvious, to give azerbaijan the green light for bold moves. We are going to see more tensions on border and bigger military actions by azeris. Until the day US/west will reignite the war.
    I would also say that latest proArmenia resolutions in US are also a dust trown on our face to hide the truth an confuse and immobilize Armenian american community in case of war.
    Last edited by Hakob; 05-07-2014, 04:02 PM.

    Comment


    • Re: Ukraine

      Originally posted by Hakob View Post
      Fourth, there should be a corridor linking Armenia to Nagorno-Karabakh. It must be wide enough to provide secure passage, but it cannot encompass the whole of Lachin district.
      lol good one, these negotiations are a joke.
      the mentality that anything close to this will ever be accepted by the Armenian public proves to me that nobody, not even the Americans believe they will ever lead to anything. The first politician to suggest giving even a single pebble of of sand of Artsakh Republic back will be hung in the hraparak, let alone saying give all of it back. there is no buffer zone, there is no security zone, there is no occupied territory. There is Tigranakert, Dadivank, and hundreds of churches and Armenian monuments that lie in these regions of the independent Republic of Artsakh. The only thing these negotiations are good for is keeping away war while we get to the end of this 10-15 year window of budgetary gap between us and the mongols.

      Comment


      • Re: Ukraine

        Originally posted by Mher View Post
        lol good one, these negotiations are a joke.
        the mentality that anything close to this will ever be accepted by the Armenian public proves to me that nobody, not even the Americans believe they will ever lead to anything. The first politician to suggest giving even a single pebble of of sand of Artsakh Republic back will be hung in the hraparak, let alone saying give all of it back. there is no buffer zone, there is no security zone, there is no occupied territory. There is Tigranakert, Dadivank, and hundreds of churches and Armenian monuments that lie in these regions of the independent Republic of Artsakh. The only thing these negotiations are good for is keeping away war while we get to the end of this 10-15 year window of budgetary gap between us and the mongols.
        Mher, You don't seem to understand the seriousness of US statements maybe. This statements are meant exactly to rekindle the war. This is the start of US/turkey/ azerbaijan coalition open politics. the war will start with US support. This is pointed at Russia.
        EU will soon join the band. And Armenia will be isolated completely. The offer to join EU association was an ultimatum just like for Ukraine. This is a pressure on Armenian government.
        Georgia will cut the transit to russia. There would be no other way exept to war.
        This gets the oil pipelines issue involved, just like the gas lines in Ukraine. This is meant to solidify anti russian coalition.
        Last edited by Hakob; 05-08-2014, 03:32 AM.

        Comment


        • Re: Ukraine

          Hakob is right this is part of wests strategy to isolate and encircle Russia with Azerbadjan, Georgia along with other bordering states acting as the agents of the west. The vision of peace laid out by the representative of the USA above is actually a prelude to war because it completely one sided in nature. I hate to say it but it seems the end of the status-quo is near and war will soon be upon us again and it seems it will not be confined to just Armenia and Azerbadjan. Unlike many here i was fine with returning some territories for peace but this proposal is extremely one sided and should never be agreed to by our side. I would like all of those who have been wearing the rose/orange colored glasses smeared with western bs to take those glasses off and read what the west is really planning for us. Russia may have to bulldoze its way through Georgia if the later refuses to grant passage of Russian troops to Armenia-one way or another it seems that borders will be redrawn perhaps several times more in the near future not through negotiation but through war.
          Hayastan or Bust.

          Comment


          • Re: Ukraine

            Hmm Ukraine government is holding peace talks but the rebels are not included in the talks..i wonder who it is talking peace with? More and more this is looking like another war triggered by the USA who is ignoring the desires of its European "friends" and consistently opting for antagonization and war rather then negotiation and peace. It wants war to isolate Russia but i am begining to wonder if the opposite can happen here, just maybe the USA might find itself more isolated after this is all over. It will not win on the ground here via military and the European powers never wanted to go along with the USA on the Ukraine adventure to begin with and now the USA is pissing off the Germans and other europeans who do not want to isolate Russia because doing so is not in their interest. I wonder if tapping the phone of Merkel will clue the USA in on the fact that this will backfire on them or perhaps they are just too dumb to learn from the whole miserable Syria disaster.
            Hayastan or Bust.

            Comment


            • Re: Ukraine

              Originally posted by Haykakan View Post
              Hmm Ukraine government is holding peace talks but the rebels are not included in the talks..i wonder who it is talking peace with? More and more this is looking like another war triggered by the USA who is ignoring the desires of its European "friends" and consistently opting for antagonization and war rather then negotiation and peace. It wants war to isolate Russia but i am begining to wonder if the opposite can happen here, just maybe the USA might find itself more isolated after this is all over. It will not win on the ground here via military and the European powers never wanted to go along with the USA on the Ukraine adventure to begin with and now the USA is pissing off the Germans and other europeans who do not want to isolate Russia because doing so is not in their interest. I wonder if tapping the phone of Merkel will clue the USA in on the fact that this will backfire on them or perhaps they are just too dumb to learn from the whole miserable Syria disaster.
              I don't know how excited the EU was to have Ukraine in the first place. You're not talking about a small country like Georgia where you can throw a few billion at them and rebuild the entire nation. You're talking about 50 million people in what is Europe's second poorest country. The EU just survived a crisis and is finally facing some stability in the next few years. I don't think they were exactly looking forward to the challenge. It was something they were being dragged along for. Now they get to wash their hands from the mess and say we tried, but what else can we do.

              Comment


              • Re: Ukraine

                Testing Russian reaction
                B0zkurt Hunter

                Comment


                • Re: Ukraine

                  The war is on Rebels shot down a chopper with a General in it and the government forces have been attacking rebels for a while now. Another war sponcered by uncle sam.
                  Hayastan or Bust.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Ukraine

                    I like this move.....sends a solid message to the West.

                    A Russian SU-27 buzzes a US Navy Modified spy plane C-130 (RC-135C) at 100 feet and crosses the front of the C-130 showing off its missiles and causing the US Navy plane to be forced to fly through its jet wash.
                    That will get your attention real quick




                    Russians don't seem to be happy with blatant US intervention where its butt don't belong.
                    B0zkurt Hunter

                    Comment


                    • Re: Ukraine

                      Pro-Russian insurgents captured three government bases in eastern Ukraine in a series of humiliating defeats for the beleaguered armed forces on Wednesday, as the president-elect promised new initiatives to help end the mutiny in the country's industrial heartland.

                      Petro Poroshenko, speaking in Warsaw after meeting with President Barack Obama and other Western leaders, rejected a call from Ukraine's interim authorities to introduce martial law in the restive east, saying he would seek to pacify the region with an offer of amnesty and a promise of early regional elections.

                      Poroshenko's overture, expected to be detailed in his inaugural address on Saturday, came as the Ukrainian troops suffered a series of embarrassing setbacks on Wednesday.

                      National Guard forces ran out of ammunition and had to flee their base near the eastern city of Luhansk after hours of battle in which six militants were killed and three Ukrainian servicemen were injured.

                      The defeat came as rebel forces seized a border guard headquarters on the city's outskirts after besieging it for two days, then forced guards out of another base in the nearby town of Sverdlovsk on the Russian border. The guards there were granted safe passage and left with their weapons.

                      The setbacks highlighted the ineffectiveness of Ukraine's badly trained and cash-starved armed forces, which also have been plagued by bad communication and poor supply lines.

                      Ukraine's provisional authorities have blamed the recent military failures on pro-Russia former President Viktor Yanukovych, claiming that his corrupt government starved soldiers of resources and training.

                      The fund shortage is so desperate that the Defense Ministry had to set up a charity account to support the armed forces while volunteers across the country have been buying provisions for the soldiers.

                      Obama, in Warsaw for a celebration on the 25th anniversary of Poland's first partially free election, praised Poroshenko for reaching out to the east, while offering $5 million in new aid for Ukraine's military — for equipment that could help in the fight against the insurgents.

                      The White House said the aid would include, for the first time, body armor and night-vision goggles for the use of troops. The United States already has provided ready-to-eat meals and money for medical supplies and other non-lethal assistance, including clothing, sleeping bags and generators.

                      Many Ukrainian units in the east are manned by poorly-trained conscripts, who come from the region and appear reluctant to engage the rebels.

                      In the skirmishes overnight into Wednesday, Alexei Toporov, a spokesman for the insurgents in Luhansk, said the guards were fleeing, and the insurgents did not try to detain them.

                      "We released them and let them go home, we impeded nobody," he said. "They left their weapons, and this base is now coming under the control of the Luhansk People's Republic."

                      A rebel fighter who gave only his first name, Andrei, said the insurgents wanted to create a "humanitarian corridor" that would allow civilians to flee to Russia to escape the fighting.

                      An Associated Press reporter saw pro-Russian militia carrying crates of ammunition and explosives out of the base on Wednesday and driving away in border guards' cars. Ukraine's Border Guard Service said that the troops from that outpost had been evacuated to unspecified "safe locations."
                      Hayastan or Bust.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X